England: "Homicides Soar"

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Homicides soar by a quarter

Cases of murder and manslaughter have risen by almost a quarter since Labour came to power, Home Office figures have revealed.

Since 1997, the number of homicide victims, including solved and unsolved cases, has averaged 737 per year. In the period from 1990 to 1996, the average was 601... Deaths by stabbing have averaged 228 a year since 1997, up nine per cent from their former level. Fatal shootings average 69 a year, up 18 per cent...

Source: The Telegraph

Phew! It sure is a good thing that in 1997 they banned handguns and semi-auto long guns!

[Scoop 0]

Jesus John. Get over it. Anyone would think you lived here or something. Isnt it shocking that the 'soar' represents a small percentage. Maybe 20% in ten years. It is also including manslaughter in the figures which ISN'T homicide.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Jesus John. Get over it. Anyone would think you lived here or something. Isnt it shocking that the 'soar' represents a small percentage. Maybe 20% in ten years. It is also including manslaughter in the figures which ISN'T homicide.

Yeah, and factor the growing populace into it also

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Scoop 0]

I did check that and to be fair since 1996 our population only grown from 58 million to 60 million.

Still 69 murders in 60 million people. I like those odds Thats 1 in 869,565 persons.

USA: 16,912 murders in 295 million population. That however is 1 in 17,443

You can keep your stinking guns

[miked10270 0]

Haven't we been here before?

More than once!!?

So... To recap (yet again):

1. The way in which the figures has changed.

2. "Homicide" is defined in British law as: "The taking of another, self existent, human life." As such it includes murder, manslaughter, culpable homicide & casual homicide. If you kill someone else in Britain, that is a homicide. Whether it's deliberate, accidental, and even if your were carrying out a lawful activity in a proper manner.

The figures have precisely FUCK-ALL to do with changes to gun legislation.

I suspect that were gun legislation to go to a referendum, the popular vote would be for either no change, or less guns. It's a fact of the modern British culture. get used to it.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Rebecca 0]

John, honestly, out of curiosity, how many times does a gun intended for home protection injur or kill someone other than an intruder?

If I were to buy a house here in Houston, which I'm considering, I'm not sure if I'd want a gun, but I am sure I'd hate to need one and not have one.

As a gun owner, I would of course insist on being certified and trained to the hilt and very current on target shooting. I would also keep it very secure/hidden-in-reach at home.

I can't help think though, that with a gun in my house, the odds of someone accidentally getting shot with it just increased from zero to not zero.


I might be looking in the wrong place for objectiveness , but I'd still like someone's perspective, and I figure since you're so passionate about this topic, you'd be more educated than some (at least as far as Texas is concerned! )

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[downwardspiral 0]

That is a very good point. Recently I've been considering buying a shotgun or pistol for home defense. Problem I'm having is my brother and I share a condo and he's not an experienced shooter. While I'm confident I won't put lead into anything that doesn't deserve to be filled with lead, I'm not so sure about my brother. So I have to weigh the likelyhood of home invasion vs the likelyhood of accidental shooting.

That being said.....in no way do I propose or support any law that would take that decision away from me.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Rebecca 0]

Quote

That being said.....in no way do I propose or support any law that would take that decision away from me.

Word.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Still 69 murders in 60 million people. I like those odds Thats 1 in 869,565 persons.

not that it makes a big difference, 69 was the number of shooting deaths. 737 was the number of murders in total for the nation.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

So... To recap (yet again):
1. The way in which the figures has changed.
2. "Homicide" is defined in British law as...

You didn't read the referenced news story, did you?

Quote:

"Ministers have sought to explain away rises in recorded violence by pointing to changes in the way police count crimes. But the homicide rate is one of the most accurate long-term measures of crime, because the offence is almost always reported to police and its definition - the taking of someone else's life - has not changed."

Quote

The figures have precisely FUCK-ALL to do with changes to gun legislation.

The guns were banned under the theory that it would reduce gun murder. It hasn't.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

So... To recap (yet again):
1. The way in which the figures has changed.
2. "Homicide" is defined in British law as...

You didn't read the referenced news story, did you?

Quote:

"Ministers have sought to explain away rises in recorded violence by pointing to changes in the way police count crimes. But the homicide rate is one of the most accurate long-term measures of crime, because the offence is almost always reported to police and its definition - the taking of someone else's life - has not changed."

Quote

The figures have precisely FUCK-ALL to do with changes to gun legislation.

The guns were banned under the theory that it would reduce gun murder. It hasn't.

Well, a Labour Government is enough to drive reasonable people to homicide. Without the gun ban the rate might have gone up 50%.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

John, honestly, out of curiosity, how many times does a gun intended for home protection injure or kill someone other than an intruder?

Quote:

"At most, 1% of defensive gun uses resulted in the offender taking the gun away from the victim (authors analysis of NCS data). Even these few cases did not necessarily involve the offender snatching the gun out of the victim's hands. Instead a burglar might, for example, have been leaving a home with one of the household's guns when a resident attempted to stop him using another household gun."

Source: Gary Kleck, PhD, "Point Blank; Guns and Crime in America", Walter de Gruyter Press, 1991. Data from "1975-1985 National Crime Survey", Dept. of Justice.

In other words, in 99% of the cases, the gun belonging to the intended victim either helped in self-defense, or was at worst neutral. Those are good odds in favor of the victim! And in the 1% of cases where the gun was taken, it doesn't necessarily mean that the homeowner was shot.

The odds of being a victim of violent crime are about 1,000 times more likely than the odds of accidentally shooting yourself.

Quote

I can't help think though, that with a gun in my house, the odds of someone accidentally getting shot with it just increased from zero to not zero.

True. But jumping out of a plane changes your probability of dying from a parachute malfunction from zero to > zero. And having a stove in your house increases the possibility of a house fire. But through training and care as a responsible adult, those problems are minimized, and the benefits outweigh the risk.

If you don't get a gun, get something else for self defense: pepper spray, taser, stun gun, dog, something. Protect those pretty green eyes.

[JohnRich 4]

News, U.S.:

Nation's Capital Declares Crime Emergency

...the killing of a British activist... It was the 13th homicide in the city this month. Robberies are up 14 percent, and armed assaults have jumped 18 percent in the past 30 days.

District of Columbia Police Chief Charles Ramsey declared a crime emergency in the city...

Source: Breitbart.com

Handguns have been banned in Washington, D.C. for decades. Gosh, a gun ban hasn't worked there either.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Gosh, a gun ban hasn't worked there either.

How do you define success?

According to you a murder rate 1/50th of the U.S. is a huge failure if the murder rate nudges up a bit.

Nobody gets to see the alternative, you're left drawing comparrisons between different situations but when you draw comparrisons between the UK and the US while ignoring absolutely glaring disparities in murder rates which completely devastate any sad point you're trying to make you look completely intellectually dishonest.

1/50th the murder rate John. If you were smart you'd envy that kind of disparity, but you're too busy polishing your AR-15 to notice, thinking it'll save you when it's your turn.

[KidWicked 0]

Quote

Quote

Gosh, a gun ban hasn't worked there either.

How do you define success?

According to you a murder rate 1/50th of the U.S. is a huge failure if the murder rate nudges up a bit.

Nobody gets to see the alternative, you're left drawing comparrisons between different situations but when you draw comparrisons between the UK and the US while ignoring absolutely glaring disparities in murder rates which completely devastate any sad point you're trying to make you look completely intellectually dishonest.

1/50th the murder rate John. If you were smart you'd envy that kind of disparity, but you're too busy polishing your AR-15 to notice, thinking it'll save you when it's your turn.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

1/50th the murder rate John. If you were smart you'd envy that kind of disparity, but you're too busy polishing your AR-15 to notice, thinking it'll save you when it's your turn.

I bet you enjoyed typing this, but since you failed to note the math error I pointed out to Scoop, it's a false glory.

The ratio is not 1/50, but 1/4.67.

(this england jihads of his are lame enough without people failing in basic arithmetic.)

[downwardspiral 0]

wasn't it 1/5th prior to the gun ban in 1997? If so, I guess I'm missing your point....mate.

That reminds me of something....didn't the UK ban pointy objects recently?

Gamers call shit like this nerfing which is caused by crappy players that would rather whine/scream/complain then actually take responsibilty for their own suckiness by taking measures to minimize the suckiness. Savy?

edited cuz: kelpdiver's fault

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Rebecca 0]

I actually would like the target practice...

But I think I'll stick with the dog for now. Maybe get me a Ka-Bar later...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

News:

Homicides soar by a quarter

Cases of murder and manslaughter have risen by almost a quarter since Labour came to power, Home Office figures have revealed.

Since 1997, the number of homicide victims, including solved and unsolved cases, has averaged 737 per year. In the period from 1990 to 1996, the average was 601... Deaths by stabbing have averaged 228 a year since 1997, up nine per cent from their former level. Fatal shootings average 69 a year, up 18 per cent...

Source: The Telegraph

Phew! It sure is a good thing that in 1997 they banned handguns and semi-auto long guns!

YAWN

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

1/50th the murder rate John. If you were smart you'd envy that kind of disparity, but you're too busy polishing your AR-15 to notice, thinking it'll save you when it's your turn.

I bet you enjoyed typing this, but since you failed to note the math error I pointed out to Scoop, it's a false glory.

The ratio is not 1/50, but 1/4.67.

(this england jihads of his are lame enough without people failing in basic arithmetic.)

Great, so John is only 5 times more likely to be murdered as he polished his gun. The point is the same.

I missed your correction, no need to get your panties in a wad.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

wasn't it 1/5th prior to the gun ban in 1997? If so, I guess I'm missing your point....mate.

My point is clear but all you've done is claim confusion. You're welcome to make a counterpoint of your own.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

The guns were banned under the theory that it would reduce gun murder. It hasn't.

I'm getting tired of pointing out to people when you are lying to them John.

We have been over this before and I have previously warned you that I would simply out you as a liar next time you spouted the same old drivel.

I shall, once again, quote Home Secretary Charles Clarke who said in Parliament, in response to a direct question relating to the effect of the ban on homicides: "The ban on handguns was a direct response to the tragic shootings at Dunblane Primary School in March 1996, which were carried out with legally held handguns. It did not purport to solve the more general problem of armed crime, the vast majority of which is carried out using illegally held firearms."

One more time John; the handgun ban was not intended to have any positive effect on run-of-the-mill gun crime and was certainly not directed at resolving homicides in general.

Would it help if we made a catchy song out of it?

This is at least the third time I have given you this quote. What are people to think of you when they know you have repeatedly been made aware of the true rationale for the ban and still say, "The guns were banned under the theory that it would reduce gun murder."?

Are they to conclude you simply lack the ability to take in information or should they conclude you willfully present information you know to be false?

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

News:

Homicides soar by a quarter

Cases of murder and manslaughter have risen by almost a quarter since Labour came to power, Home Office figures have revealed.

Since 1997, the number of homicide victims, including solved and unsolved cases, has averaged 737 per year. In the period from 1990 to 1996, the average was 601... Deaths by stabbing have averaged 228 a year since 1997, up nine per cent from their former level. Fatal shootings average 69 a year, up 18 per cent...

Source: The Telegraph

Phew! It sure is a good thing that in 1997 they banned handguns and semi-auto long guns!

Not correct... Picture of me firing a legal semi automatic long only a couple of weeks ago in the UK. (Although its the Carbine version the full length barrel on this weapon is just as legal.)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

The guns were banned under the theory that it would reduce gun murder. It hasn't.

I'm getting tired of pointing out to people when you are lying to them John.

We have been over this before and I have previously warned you that I would simply out you as a liar next time you spouted the same old drivel.

....

Are they to conclude you simply lack the ability to take in information or should they conclude you willfully present information you know to be false?

Par for the course for this guy. Just two weeks ago he claimed I wrote something I hadn't written, called me a liar on account of it (irony) and refused to retract when called on it. Intellectually dishonest.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Would it help if we made a catchy song out of it?

Okay. That was funny.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.