LisaH 0 #1 May 2, 2006 Written to a newspaper. Mexican Government needs to hear their people. It would be my desire that the next march would be against Mexico and its government. Mexico and its lack of concern for its own people is the reason they have to flee to a better place. Mexico has the natural resources the land, the beauty, the water and oil reserves to bring in plenty of revenue. It is only the lack of care for their people and the corruptness of the Mexican Government that makes it a difficult place to live. Maybe if the illegal immigrants would rise up and demand health care, jobs, schools, plumbing and respect, then their own government would hear and realize there is a large problem. The plight of the Mexican people has become the problem of the hard working citizens of the USA and it belongs to Mexico.Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #2 May 2, 2006 Well the Mexican people do look like they are about to elect a president who wants to take his country down a new path. Some how I don't think this is actually going to sit well with the US government. The leading (Socialist) candidate seems to be a fellow traveler with the presidents of Venezuela and Cuba. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #3 May 2, 2006 QuoteWell the Mexican people do look like they are about to elect a president who wants to take his country down a new path. Some how I don't think this is actually going to sit well with the US government. The leading (Socialist) candidate seems to be a fellow traveler with the presidents of Venezuela and Cuba. And we all know the extreme good that has been done by Latin American commie leaders! Mexico will get worse, just as Venezuela did... we'll see more immigration... Mexico will see more domestic problems and poverty... and instead of blaming the corrupt commie leaders, they'll blame the US. It's par for the course. Ignorance breeds communism it seems.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #4 May 2, 2006 I am not sure things have gotten worse in Venezuela lately. I agree the president is an asshole, but my contacts with Venezuelans this past winter (there were a few) seemed to indicate that times were good. Skydives were way cheaper than in Mexico or the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #5 May 2, 2006 Not one Venezuelan I know (and that's a handful) thinks that ANYTHING has gotten better in Venezuela. I don't know who you're talking to, but you have those people who are rich and unaffected, those who support Chavez (who are becoming rich), and then those that are practically illiterate who were manipulated into supporting Chavez. For those people, it's all fun and games till someone has to pay for it. Skydives are cheap because gas is produced there, and subsidized. Don't kid yourself... it WILL get worse and it has already gotten worse than it was before Chavez. 2 of my best friends just got back from there this week... aside from the localized laid back attitude and parties... the consensus was that things were not looking good. You can count on this "communist" government that was made to help the people to make its cadre rich and make its people poorer.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 May 2, 2006 QuoteMaybe if the illegal immigrants would rise up and demand health care, jobs, schools, plumbing and respect, then their own government would hear and realize there is a large problem. I think that hey tried that in Chiapas... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #7 May 2, 2006 QuoteYou can count on this "communist" government that was made to help the people to make its cadre rich and make its people poorer. One word comes to mind: "Haliburton" HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #8 May 2, 2006 >but you have those people who are rich and unaffected, those who > support Chavez (who are becoming rich), and then those that are > practically illiterate who were manipulated into supporting Chavez. > For those people, it's all fun and games till someone has to pay for it. In other words, they're gradually becoming more like us. >You can count on this "communist" government that was made to >help the people to make its cadre rich and make its people poorer. Which makes them even more like us: ------------------------------------ America's income gap grows; rich get richer Wealthiest 20% account for 50% of U.S. income, Census shows Over two decades, the income gap has steadily increased between the richest Americans, who own homes and stocks and got big tax breaks, and those at the middle and bottom of the pay scale, whose paychecks buy less. The growing disparity is even more pronounced in this recovering economy. Wages are stagnant, and the middle class is shouldering a larger tax burden. Prices for health care, housing, tuition, gas and food have soared. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/186625_incomegap17.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #9 May 2, 2006 Well I have not been to Venezuela so I'm not going to get into a pissing match about who's aquaintances are better informed. I don't like socialism but seeing as Venezuela is sitting on the largest recoverable reserves of hydrocarbons on the planet (albiet high cost ones), it makes sense for a socialist to be very belligerent towards the Euro/American oil giants and their client governments. Back to the issue of Mexico; Mexican society is much more collectivist in nature than American society. For the Mexican people to elect a socialist/social democrat president should not be a great surprise. Remember they kicked the big oil companies out a long time ago. Personally I think President Fox has done a very good job over the last eight years. The Mexicans, however, are not satisfied with incremental progress. It seems that now that they have broken the PRI stranglehold they are adamant they will elect this leftist character. It will be very interesting to see whether he will endanger the gains to living standards and employment enjoyed by many (but by no means the majority) as a result of the huge influx of foreign investment over the last twelve to sixteen years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #10 May 3, 2006 QuoteMexico and its lack of concern for its own people is the reason they have to flee to a better place. Mexico has the natural resources the land, the beauty, the water and oil reserves to bring in plenty of revenue. It is only the lack of care for their people and the corruptness of the Mexican Government that makes it a difficult place to live. So true. Apparently the have the 12th highest GDP in the world (slightly ahead of Canada or slightly behind depending on the source.). First found out about that on this sight actually. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #11 May 3, 2006 Come on... you don't really think that our government has anything in common with Chavez's do you? Tell me you're just being contrarian here. If you can't see any differences, then that really puts a new light on how you think, Bill.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #12 May 3, 2006 It's not about who's more well informed... it's about the difference of opinions in people who are "chavistas" or are working with them because it's easy to make a buck, and people who stand to lose everything because they voted for the other guys... Sure, on a small scale, some people might be doing better in their specific areas... but everything I've heard is pretty bad... or seems like it'll take them down a road to nowhere. That typically happens when the educated people leave the country because the government makes it very uncomfortable for them. Chavez will find it easy to keep putting himself in office as long as he keeps his populace really ignorant. That's pretty typical in these situations, from what I've seen. It seems to be VERY similar in what might happen in Mexico. Most of my friends there who aren't really rich, but not dirt poor feel that this new wave of socialism will really hurt the country and the progress they begrudgingly attribute to Fox. They see what happened in Bolivia and Venezuela and they say it looks mighty similar to what's about to happen there. But hey, more power to all the idiots who vote commie... maybe they can make it work when it hasn't ever really worked anywhere. These new guys must have it all figured out.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #13 May 3, 2006 I just feel bad that Mexico isn't doing more to help those who were born and raised there What's up with that?Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #14 May 3, 2006 The guy is a jerk...in my opinionBe yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #15 May 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteMaybe if the illegal immigrants would rise up and demand health care, jobs, schools, plumbing and respect, then their own government would hear and realize there is a large problem. I think that hey tried that in Chiapas... And we all know how the Mexican Government responded to that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #16 May 3, 2006 >If you can't see any differences, then that really puts a new light >on how you think, Bill. And if you can't see any similarities at all, then . . . well, that doesn't change much! We do have a system set up right now where large corporations affiliated with the government get a LOT of money; that money comes from taxpayers. We also have a society where the gap between rich and poor grows greater every year. Those are things we have in common with Venezuela. Doesn't mean there are no differences, of course, and I think you know that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #17 May 3, 2006 QuoteWe do have a system set up right now where large corporations affiliated with the government get a LOT of money; that money comes from taxpayers. We also have a society where the gap between rich and poor grows greater every year. Those are things we have in common with Venezuela. Doesn't mean there are no differences, of course, and I think you know that. Where would you rather be a victim of the wealth gap? Here or there? Are our "poor" getting poorer or just not getting rich as fast as the "rich"? When our government nationalizes many major companies then gives itself contracts, then hires supporters only to work in those companies so that they can embezzle at will... THEN talk to me. It isn't the same... wait, no it is... they breathe air... and we breathe air... I think you know that you're being argumentative for the sake of it.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,153 #18 May 3, 2006 QuoteWhen our government nationalizes many major companies then gives itself contracts, then hires supporters only to work in those companies so that they can embezzle at will... THEN talk to me. or you make a senior executive from that company your Vice President. Allow him to continue to get paid by that company and make sure that same company gets untendered contracts even after it has been shown they pad the invoices. The optics of that are not at all similar.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #19 May 3, 2006 >Where would you rather be a victim of the wealth gap? I'd rather be here because I like it here. If I were dirt poor, and didn't start out here, I'd rather be in a place that had free medical care. >Are our "poor" getting poorer or just not getting rich as fast as >the "rich"? In terms of absolute dollars they are getting richer. In terms of purchasing power (referencing food, clothing, and housing) they are getting poorer. From 2000 to 2004, the percentage of people below the poverty line in the US increased from 11.3% to 12.7%. (See attached graph.) >When our government nationalizes many major companies then > gives itself contracts, then hires supporters only to work in those > companies so that they can embezzle at will... That happens here as well, on a smaller scale. I assume you have heard of Enron and Halliburton. And you are too smart to think they have no ties to the government, or that they haven't benefitted from that, or that there has been no embezzlement in those companies. >I think you know that you're being argumentative for the sake of it. And I think you don't really believe that the government here does not meddle in the economy, or that the government does not give billion dollar contracts to their friends. Note in case you're getting into flame-everything mode - I am NOT saying that Venezuela is better than the US. I AM saying that we exhibit a lot of the same problems they do. This should not come as a suprise; many countries have these problems. If we do our best to ignore them, they will only get worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #20 May 3, 2006 QuoteI'd rather be here because I like it here. If I were dirt poor, and didn't start out here, I'd rather be in a place that had free medical care. Then you'd rather be here in both cases. Our lack of ability to turn the sick and injured away is better than what they get over there... no matter how many photo ops Chavez makes with his "free" clinics. QuoteIn terms of absolute dollars they are getting richer. In terms of purchasing power (referencing food, clothing, and housing) they are getting poorer. From 2000 to 2004, the percentage of people below the poverty line in the US increased from 11.3% to 12.7%. (See attached graph.) Having an increase in families living below poverty lines due to "pretty" normal fluctuations in inflation is not unusual. Skyrocketing inflation, which happened in Venezuela, and people being fired for being in the wrong party resulting in them becoming newly poor is VERY different. Having a 12.7% poverty rate versus a 47% is a BIG difference. Also, looking at the poverty rate in the US we've been hovering between 10 and 15% since the 60's. Fluctuations are normal. QuoteThat happens here as well, on a smaller scale. I assume you have heard of Enron and Halliburton. And you are too smart to think they have no ties to the government, or that they haven't benefitted from that, or that there has been no embezzlement in those companies. So... because it happens less here on a smaller scale... we're just as bad? We're no different? Come on! It's RAMPANT there and it involves everyone from the top down. QuoteI AM saying that we exhibit a lot of the same problems they do. This should not come as a suprise; many countries have these problems. If we do our best to ignore them, they will only get worse. You're just being dishonest about the issue. Sure, we have our problems but NOWHERE on the scale that they're happening in Venezuela right now. To say that things are similar here is misleading. It's not about who's better or worse... YOU brought that into the equation... not me. I really really do think you're just arguing for the sake of it.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #21 May 3, 2006 >Our lack of ability to turn the sick and injured away is better >than what they get over there . . . Hmm. Both the international press and organizations like the WHO seem to think they have a pretty good system. I've never been there. Have you? If so, I'll take your word for it. Odd, though, that you seem to be touting the US's (effectively) socialized medical system as an example of how we are better than Venezuela. >Having an increase in families living below poverty lines due >to "pretty" normal fluctuations in inflation is not unusual. Not saying it's unusual or not, just that it is happening. You asked if our poor are getting poorer - the answer is that they are. >So... because it happens less here on a smaller scale... we're just as > bad? We're no different? You have ceased reading my posts, and are now just trying to slam me any way you can so you can "win" the argument. I'll leave you to it; have fun with it, and have a good night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 May 3, 2006 Quoteor you make a retired senior executive from that company your Vice President. Allow him to continue to get paid his severance package by that company fixed that part for you, since you like to forget to add the fact that he was retired and getting his severance... Quote and make sure that same company gets untendered contracts even after it has been shown they pad the invoices. Prove Cheney had anything to do with Haliburton getting the contracts... oh, that's right, I forgot... you CAN'T. QuoteThe optics of that are not at all similar.... Looks like the same old bash to me...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #23 May 4, 2006 QuoteNot saying it's unusual or not, just that it is happening. You asked if our poor are getting poorer - the answer is that they are. The answer in the frame you use is "they are." What you leave out is that through normal fluctuations, they are getting poorer TODAY, but a few years back they were getting richer, and it's not unreasonable to expect that they will again. It's almost as bad as "michael mooring" a quote in my opinion. QuoteYou have ceased reading my posts, and are now just trying to slam me any way you can so you can "win" the argument. I'll leave you to it; have fun with it, and have a good night. Bullshit tactic, Bill. Because I respond to you and disagree, I'm slamming you? I don't care if I "win" any arguments here, but I won't let you put a disingenuous argument forward on me. Furthermore... YOU brought the comparison into play, not me. I read what you wrote, and you know I did. I've gone point by point until now... unlike yourself. If you don't like that you tried to draw a comparison and it didn't work, don't try to make dishonest comparisons. You have yourself a good day and night as well.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,153 #24 May 4, 2006 QuoteThe answer in the frame you use is "they are." What you leave out is that through normal fluctuations, they are getting poorer TODAY, but a few years back they were getting richer, and it's not unreasonable to expect that they will again. It's almost as bad as "michael mooring" a quote in my opinion. Wasn't there a democratic president a few years back and a republican one now? I wonder if there is any connection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #25 May 4, 2006 QuoteWasn't there a democratic president a few years back and a republican one now? I wonder if there is any connection. *sigh* Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
