There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

[turtlespeed 212]

3 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

People make that mistake all of the time, conflating CO2 with pollution.

Its kind of like Frogs and Toads.

Tll toads are frogs, but not all frogs are toads.

CO2 is a pollutant, and a greenhouse gas.  It is all relevant.

 

[brenthutch 388]

CO2 is not a pollutant, it is a vital trace gas, without it we would all be dead.  

[kallend 1,635]

On 12/11/2019 at 10:36 PM, billvon said:

 

Ocean acidification?  I will just laugh at you on this one.  Next time you see a doctor, tell him that there's no such disease as acidosis, because a blood pH of 7.1 is alkaline.  You read it on the Internet!

But in any case, the reason climate change deniers will fail is that people no longer need to read boring scientific papers to understand climate change.  They just have to look out their windows.

 

 

Meanwhile, off the coast of California:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-16/ocean-acidification-california?utm_source=Today's+Headlines&utm_campaign=720445f836-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_12_12_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b04355194f-720445f836-82416649

[DJL 232]

16 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

They increased the cost of the thing that was contributing to the problem.

That is what I am hearing being advocated here.  It's not even FOR here in the US - it's to somehow convince someone else to take action.  

Our output of pollutants is 88th in the world.

https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings_by_country.jsp

That's right and it was a dumb move.  You don't have to literally get your money from the thing that you're trying to change.  If we were trying to increase use of child care centers we wouldn't apply a prohibitive tax to child care centers to pay for the changes.  Emissions are a societal and countrywide issue and what every politician should absolutely understand is that sales taxes hit the masses the hardest.  We raised taxes in the US on cigarettes because we ALSO don't want people smoking cigarettes so fuck them.  We DO want people being able to go to work and conduct business.  Yes, there are direct taxes for roads that come from gas and people understand that it's directly proportional to their use of the roads but we couldn't expect drivers to pay an extra tax so that steel companies can get funds to reduce coal emissions from furnaces.

I don't care where we are in ranking.  I want my country to lead the world and I'm willing to pay for getting it started.  Especially in this hemisphere in which we're dealing with serious humanitarian issues arising from unrest and labor practices that make people want a big fucking wall on the southern border but nothing on the northern border I want our influence in making it happen.  As I said above, this doesn't mean simply handing people money.  We can invest ourselves in other countries and turn this into economic gains.  Think of it as a combination of Lend Lease and Marshall Plan.

[DJL 232]

29 minutes ago, kallend said:

Meanwhile, off the coast of California:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-16/ocean-acidification-california?utm_source=Today's+Headlines&utm_campaign=720445f836-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_12_12_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b04355194f-720445f836-82416649

Ah yes, literally an ocean of fact you have to ignore to think that additional vegetation from elevated CO2 outweighs the negative effects. 

[brenthutch 388]

.21 decline in PH over a century?  That is as terrifying as five inches of sea level rise.  Coral reefs deal with greater PH swings in a SINGLE DAY.  

[DJL 232]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

.21 decline in PH over a century?  That is as terrifying as five inches of sea level rise.  Coral reefs deal with greater PH swings in a SINGLE DAY.  

And, and, and, and....

[SkyDekker 1,130]

19 hours ago, brenthutch said:

CO2 is not a pollutant, it is a vital trace gas, without it we would all be dead.

CO2 is a fund pollutant.

[brenthutch 388]

12 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

CO2 is a fund pollutant.

So is oxygen 

[DJL 232]

3 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

So is oxygen 

And water.  I don't think we're making honest statements about the effect of the excess or absence of water, oxygen or CO2.  Plants would also benefit from higher levels of water, they would cease to benefit at a certain level, they would die at a higher level, they would also die at higher temperatures.  These are all things you understand.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

So is oxygen 

Indeed. Happy to see you are now agreeing CO2 is a pollutant (above a certain level). I mean these are all pretty easy to understand principals. How are we supposed to take anything you say serious if you are refusing to accept simple stuff?

[billvon 2,407]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

So is oxygen 

Yes.  And as divers know, at high enough partial pressures, it will kill you.  Best to keep it below those partial pressures, eh?  Even if you think "the science isn't settled" or it's all a Chinese conspiracy or something.

 

[brenthutch 388]

I don't know why you guys are struggling with this, but the simple fact is, CO2 levels will continue to rise and that is OK.  We are all going to be alright.  Sorry to disappoint but there will be no category 12 hurricane flooding the shores with acid water.  I'm OK with that.  I don't understand why you're not

[billvon 2,407]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I don't know why you guys are struggling with this, but the simple fact is, CO2 levels will continue to rise and that is OK.  We are all going to be alright. 

Some of us care about more than ourselves.  Pretty simple.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

33 minutes ago, billvon said:

Some of us care about more than ourselves.  Pretty simple.

Some of us understand the concept that if we continue down the path we're heading down, without any real changes to our behaviors, that humanity (in general) is fucked. 

Not in my lifetime, maybe not for hundreds of years, but someday. 

[brenthutch 388]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Some of us care about more than ourselves.  Pretty simple.

When I say "we" I am talking about all of humanity.

[turtlespeed 212]

11 hours ago, DJL said:

You don't have to literally get your money from the thing that you're trying to change.  If we were trying to increase use of child care centers we wouldn't apply a prohibitive tax to child care centers to pay for the changes. 

Hmmm - And how I see it is that you should be taxed for pregnancy.  Then the issue is solved.

 

[brenthutch 388]

[DJL 232]

Nov world temps are in and we continue as the 2nd hottest on record with land and sea temps and hottest on record air temps.  Of note is that sea temps lag partially because the oceans in some regions are being cooled by the melting ice sheets.  In addition, we're about to bump out 2009 once we get into January which means that with the exception of 1998 all top 10 hottest years are 2010 or later.  But anyway, a marginal increase in plant growth from elevated CO2 is well worth it, right?

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201911/supplemental/page-1

[brenthutch 388]

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by brenthutch

[SkyDekker 1,130]

Cute meme. Must work for stupid people.

[brenthutch 388]

Hey, don't say that about NOAA's global temperature chart.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Hey, don't say that about NOAA's global temperature chart.

maybe they would provide a tidal chart with it....at least to make some valid comparisons. But, I guess for most people a meme will do. All about the feels.

[wmw999 2,131]

One can always  find something to support one’s position. The bravery comes with looking for something to disprove it and acknowledging it. 

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 388]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=duck+soup+lying+eyes