Could you forgive somebody who murders your loved one?

[rwieder 0]

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's a bit of a reach (and, to some, an insult) for you to invoke scripture to support your macho bullshit.

It's not macho bullshit, it's exactly what would happen. If your oversensitive, then please, by all means skip over my post. The bible says what it says, like it or not. A question was asked, i answered it. If my answer doesn't meet your approval, i could give a care. You express your opinion, good, i'll express mine the same way and expect no rhetoric for doing so, the same way you should be able to.

If your looking for a "Flame Fest" you won't get it here, look elsewhere please.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[rwieder 0]

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You would have people kill your family?

BillVon:

You know darn well what i meant. I absolutely hate it when you take my remarks out of context. Please don't do this to me, it's not fair. I answered a question with an answer. I say again: If your looking for a flame fest, please look elsewhere. This is my last word on this matter. Have a great evening.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[RhondaLea 3]

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But the good book lays it out concisely "Do unto other's as you would have them do unto you" Words to live by.

Uh...

...you forgot the part about "an eye for an eye."

Anyway.

A few years ago, my mother called me crying and said, "Mickey's dead."

He was my favorite cousin, and his ex-wife's boyfriend shot him to death with a handgun.

As I said, he was my favorite cousin, but I could see how this might have been self-defense...or maybe not. To this day, no one has really sorted out what happened.

I don't know what I would do if someone hurt my daughter but based on the above and several other incidents in my life involving people I have cared about, I do think I would be inclined to forgive and try to go on. The other side of that is I do truly believe that the inability to forgive hurts the grudge holder more than it hurts the perpetrator. I've held some grudges in my time, and I know I feel a lot better now when I can just look at the grudgee and say, "Oh well..."

But I'm not sure you can know until it actually happens to you how you're going to feel, and each instance is always going to be different, depending on the victim in your life.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[billvon 2,476]

>You know darn well what i meant.

I think I know what you meant, but the quote means the opposite. The actual quote is from the Sermon on the Mount, and it is:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

So do to others what you want to have happen to you. If you want a man to kill your son, kill his son. If you want him to show mercy on you, show mercy on him. Nothing about "getting him back" - indeed Jesus says the exact opposite in the same sermon.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

So if you feel you must seek revenge for such a horrible act, so be it. But don't use the Sermon on the Mount to justify it. It says the EXACT opposite.

[labrys 0]

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Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. It doesn't mean you forget. It doesn't mean its OK. It means you set aside the anger and bitterness that's disrupting your life and move on

I've always thought that true forgiveness was a selfless action and not something you do for yourself. It seems to me that it's one thing to honestly forgive another person for harming you and another thing to be able to put aside your anger.

Edited to add my own understanding of "forgive";

To me, "forgiving" means not demanding retribution, it doens't mean not being angry or hurt.

Owned by Remi #?

[lawrocket 3]

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the inability to forgive hurts the grudge holder more than it hurts the perpetrator. I've held some grudges in my time, and I know I feel a lot better now when I can just look at the grudgee and say, "Oh well..."

My friends and family are surprised at my ability to not hold grudges. I can let things slide because it usually is not worth it.

On the other hand, there are a couple of grudges that I do hold. I hold them because the people agains whom I hold these grudges have - and had - it coming. There are some grudges that are damned worth having. And keeping. Most are not.

If someone murders my son, I would hold a grudge against that person. Maybe this person was a close personal friend. I doubt I'll be sending a Christmas present or birthday wish to that person. I doubt you would, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bigwind 0]

whilst i respect alot of the view expressed on here, i'm just not able to forgive like some of the other posters are. I would want to kill somebody who killed a child or loved one of mine. I know that this is wrong, i've tried to get my head round the right way of thinking, i'm just not able to. I don't think it makes me a bad person for wanting what most would call "revenge" it would just mean i'm a good person who can't handle a bad situation the right way

[kallend 1,683]

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>You know darn well what i meant.

I think I know what you meant, but the quote means the opposite. The actual quote is from the Sermon on the Mount, and it is:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

So do to others what you want to have happen to you. If you want a man to kill your son, kill his son. If you want him to show mercy on you, show mercy on him. Nothing about "getting him back" - indeed Jesus says the exact opposite in the same sermon.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

So if you feel you must seek revenge for such a horrible act, so be it. But don't use the Sermon on the Mount to justify it. It says the EXACT opposite.

Low blow there, Bill. Quoting the ACTUAL scripture, Geez!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,683]

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whilst i respect alot of the view expressed on here, i'm just not able to forgive like some of the other posters are. I would want to kill somebody who killed a child or loved one of mine. I know that this is wrong, i've tried to get my head round the right way of thinking, i'm just not able to. I don't think it makes me a bad person for wanting what most would call "revenge" it would just mean i'm a good person who can't handle a bad situation the right way

I am sure your mother told you very early on that two wrongs don't make a right. It's a good thing to remember in situations that test your spirit.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tigra 0]

Maybe its true then that there is no true selfless act.

Good topic!

[kallend 1,683]

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's a bit of a reach (and, to some, an insult) for you to invoke scripture to support your macho bullshit.

It's not macho bullshit, it's exactly what would happen. If your oversensitive, then please, by all means skip over my post. The bible says what it says, like it or not. A question was asked, i answered it. If my answer doesn't meet your approval, i could give a care. You express your opinion, good, i'll express mine the same way and expect no rhetoric for doing so, the same way you should be able to.

If your looking for a "Flame Fest" you won't get it here, look elsewhere please.

A rather better version of The Golden Rule is "Do unto others as they would wish you to do unto them".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Forgiveness IMO isn't for the person who wronged me or my family member, it is something which sets me free. Free from lifelong bitterness and pain. It wouldn't be immediate, however over time, yes I would forgive the violator. It doesn't mean that they are accepted in my life in any way, however I wouldn't harbor resentment to the point where it would hold me back from moving forward. Make sense?

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[BillyVance 34]

It depends... does the killer show remorse? I could forgive...

Absolutely nothing of any hint of any remorse? He might get forgiven by God, but not by me, and I'll be right there in the witness chamber watching his execution if that is the punishment handed down. Otherwise it better be life in prison without parole and a daily ass-reaming by his bitch.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[GravityGirl 0]

I could never know unless I was in her shoes. I hope to God I never find out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[D22369 0]

could you forgive somebody who killed a child of yours? or your SO?
***

not a chance in hell - and if I was fortunate, I would send them there personally.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Muenkel 0]

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Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. It doesn't mean you forget. It doesn't mean its OK. It means you set aside the anger and bitterness that's disrupting your life and move on, something much easier said than done. Could I do it? I hope I never have to find out.

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Good point. And I'd also like to add that it's not something that just happens once and is final. To forgive is to forgive every day; at times of weakness, you are at risk of retracting it, much like love. It takes a lot of strength to consistently forgive. And even more strength to consistently forgive such an personal atrocity.

Very well put tigra and sudsy.

Chris

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Chris

[sunshine 2]

No, i will not ever forgive the guy who murdered my sister. I've never felt such hatred for any human being in my life.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Wopelao 0]

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That was a really good response.
I too would hope I could forgive them. Basically its not my role to judge them. That is Gods place and I will not usurp that authourity since I want my own judgement to go well.

Bwahahahaha. Oh so where do your logic applies when you decry "Repubicans" and right wing nazies to anyone who differs with your political views?

Interesting you profess more hatred towards those who differ to your opinion, than those who actually harm your loved ones physically.

[sinker 0]

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That was a really good response.
I too would hope I could forgive them. Basically its not my role to judge them. That is Gods place and I will not usurp that authourity since I want my own judgement to go well.

Bwahahahaha. Oh so where do your logic applies when you decry "Repubicans" and right wing nazies to anyone who differs with your political views?

Interesting you profess more hatred towards those who differ to your opinion, than those who actually harm your loved ones physically.

ever heard of hyperbole?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Gravitymaster 0]

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ever heard of hyperbole?

I smoked one in Mexico once.

[Amazon 7]

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Bwahahahaha. Oh so where do your logic applies when you decry "Repubicans" and right wing nazies to anyone who differs with your political views?

I decry them when their hypocrisy reeks and they force it down everyones throat.
Pro life??? yeah right...almost every pro lifer I have ever met is pro death penalty and pro war....

You can support the Nazis and CCC and KKK all you want.. but there is the real hatred that exists in this country... I grew up around them.. I know them well. They are all good Repubicans

Patriot Act... there are many provisions that totalitarian governments all thru the 20th Centry had... Ever hear of the phrase... When they came and took my ( fill in the blank) I never did anything... and when they came to get me it was too late.

The REligeous Wrong... uh huh great people.. fuck over people all week long and as long as you can go get absolution on Sunday.... all your sins are forgiven.

I prefer to live my life as I would want others to treat me... not do unto others before they can do unto you.. as soooo many of you on the right believe in.

I just love the NEWSPEAK of the Repubican Party.... all of you profess thea ANYONE who differs from your opinion is using HATE.... GO LOOK IN YOUR MIRROR.( and look up NEWSPEAK)

Ok I went and got it for you.I would not want to strain your powers of research.

The basic idea behind Newspeak was to remove all shades of meaning from language, leaving simple dichotomies (pleasure and pain, happiness and sadness, good thoughts and thoughtcrimes) which reinforce the total dominance of the State. A staccato rhythm of short syllables was also a goal, further reducing the need for deep thinking about language. (See duckspeak.) Successful Newspeak meant that there would be fewer and fewer words -- dictionaries would get thinner and thinner.

In addition, words with opposite meanings were removed as redundant, so "bad" became "ungood." Words with superlative meanings were also removed, so "best" became "doubleplusgood." In this manner, as many words as possible were removed from the language. The ultimate aim of Newspeak was to reduce even the dichotomies to a single word that was a "yes" of some sort: an obedient word with which everyone answered affirmatively to what was asked of them.

[sinker 0]

>Pro life??? yeah right...almost every pro lifer I have ever met is pro death penalty and pro war....

you haven't met me yet.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Amazon 7]

I know Sinker... I know.. I think we would get along just fine.

[SudsyFist 0]

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>Pro life??? yeah right...almost every pro lifer I have ever met is pro death penalty and pro war....

you haven't met me yet.

Nor me.

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[sinker 0]

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I know Sinker... I know.. I think we would get along just fine.

esp. if you let me crawl up in your lap and you read me an amazon bedtime story.

-the artist formerly known as sinker