Do Suicides Go to Heaven?

[sinker 0]

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Valcore: I have searched the scriptures, and found nothing to indicate they would be sent to Hell for a suicide. I believe that the Catholic Church says they do, but that church is so wrong on so many things, I wouldnt put too much stock in their stand.

dude, you're wrong. don't do this. not here, not now. this isn't the time nor the place. take it elsewhere.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rehmwa 2]

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Valcore: I have searched the scriptures, and found nothing to indicate they would be sent to Hell for a suicide. I believe that the Catholic Church says they do, but that church is so wrong on so many things, I wouldnt put too much stock in their stand.

dude, you're wrong. don't do this. not here, not now. this isn't the time nor the place. take it elsewhere.

And the non-religious bash all the religious, and the religious from offshoot religions bash the original one they splintered from

cool huh? but they still get upset when the occasional Catholic feels a TINY bit under attack..........

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[akarunway 1]

"And No I did not watch Constantine, my cousins wife just hung herself"----------------- Sorry to hear that. My 27 yr.old son did the same thing 6 mths ago w/ a bible laying at his feet. As I am a reformed catholic (agnostic). I was wondering the same thing.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Airbender 0]

If you starve a vegetarian long enough they will eat meat. IF you put an aetheist in the right situation they all of a sudden beleive in God. Just because you minister , priest or whomever tells you their opinion doesn't make it gospel truth. My beleifs are that we have been born to test our faith and what kind of a person we are. I beleive while it is good to have religion many poeple from all different beliefs will go to Heaven. I don't think I have seen any where it talks about taking your own life in the srciptures but it would seem to me that it would be close to murder in Gods eyes. Life stinks sometimes but if you have Faith and hold on it alaways can get better. Look at Joseph his brothers sold him into slavery he worked his way up as high as he could than thrown into prison. Only to make his Faith stronger. He eventually came out better than anyone could have imagined. God only gives us what he knows we can handle. If we aren't learning failing struggling we arn't growing.

[chuteless 1]

Perhaps you are right Sinker....I apologize

Bill Cole

[sinker 0]

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And the non-religious bash all the religious, and the religious from offshoot religions bash the original one they splintered from

cool huh? but they still get upset when the occasional Catholic feels a TINY bit under attack..........

that's not my point at all... this isn't the proper place for it and you know it.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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Perhaps you are right Sinker....I apologize

Bill Cole

thank you bill!

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rehmwa 2]

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that's not my point at all... this isn't the proper place for it and you know it.

I'm not sure what you think I know. But I do know that Catholics in particular get a lot of flack in general. But they can't play that card without being further shouted down. It's not a fair situation and I'm sympathetic to them in that they aren't accorded the same consideration as other groups in similar scenarios.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[sinker 0]

sorry, misread your post.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rehmwa 2]

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sorry, misread your post.

Yup, I was siding with you. My English isn't so,...how you say it..... elegant

I should have put the [cynical sarcastic] face next to the word 'TINY'

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I'm not sure about this, but its not just a 'heaven or hell' issue.
Isn't there also purgatory and limbo where the soul can be 'prepared' for either hell or heaven.

I caught a bit of a debate on the radio the other night discussing examples such as un-baptised children going to limbo, then on to heaven, after some sort of spiritual probation period.

I'm agnostic, so am kinda open minded about this.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[ReBirth 0]

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IF you put an aetheist in the right situation they all of a sudden beleive in God.

bull

[markd_nscr986 0]

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IF you put an aetheist in the right situation they all of a sudden beleive in God.


bull



Ditto

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

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[livendive 8]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. I suspect that when we die, we just die, and the method of death is irrelevant.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[bianuan 0]

I left the catholic church and sought out a new spiritual philosophy over the official answer to this question which is : no they dont, to take a life even your own is considered a mortal sin.
I couldnt accept that someone who suffered from the pain of depression, like my father, for so many years could possibly be held accountable for it killing them through suicide, drink or however it manifested itself.
Narrow minded mainstream explanations of Christian philosophy regarding suicide are not correct in my opinion.

Ann

[IanHarrop 37]

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I wanna know what you or your religion believes and why

Since I don't believe that either heaven or hell exist, I don't believe anyone goes anywhere.

Others are free to believe differently.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[freethefly 6]

Valcore, I am so sorry to hear of this death. I myself have made 7 attempts of suicide ( 1 hanging, 4 drug overdoses, slit my wrists and finally gassing myself in my car at 3am, my neighbor came home and wondered why my car was running
, I awoke the following day in ICU) due to health problems. I hope your family is not mad at what she did but try to understand the pain that she must have been feeling inside. Often people who become suicidal learn to hide any pain so as not give away their intention to end life. Fortunately for me it was very appearant and people around me tried to keep a close eye on what I was doing. I hope that your family quickly come to terms with what had happened and not blame theirselves.
PeaceLoveGoodVibes
Freethefly

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[sinker 0]

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I left the catholic church and sought out a new spiritual philosophy over the official answer to this question which is : no they dont, to take a life even your own is considered a mortal sin.
I couldnt accept that someone who suffered from the pain of depression, like my father, for so many years could possibly be held accountable for it killing them through suicide, drink or however it manifested itself.
Narrow minded mainstream explanations of Christian philosophy regarding suicide are not correct in my opinion.

Ann: If you haven't read my post, please do. The Catholic Church does not say categorically that anyone who commits suicide goes to hell. It distinguishes b/t the moral gravity of an ACT and subjective CULPABILITY.

It also wisely teaches the people suffering from depression and other mental conditions who suicide are obviously suffering from something that restricts their ability to chose rightly or freely.

No one knows if a suicide victim goes to hell... my personal belief is, probably not. God's mercy is infinite.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[charmsdroppop 0]

Very "make sense" said. I agree, no one knows anything. We could be in Hell right now and therefore it's all better after.
Valcore.....sorry for that loss....

is it dark yet

[Zenister 0]

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Did you just watch Constantine or something?

by your use of the word 'Heaven' you have limited yourself to a small set of possible Religions...

Ok I am not trying to leave out other religions I just don't know what others call it..

perhaps studying how other religions veiw and accept death will help you answer the question you are really asking then.....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Richards 0]

Valcore, I am terribly sorry for your loss. I would like to post my perspective on this issue as I have pondered this question myself. I am not offering advice or assurance as I myself do not know. I merely wish to state my own perspective. I hope I do not add to your grief and if I do I am sorry as that is not my intention.

I have been curious about this for some time as I myself have had a couple of freinds commit suicide and I hate to think that a so called "loving forgiving god" could torture them for eternity for giving into thier pain.

On one hand the idea that one could spend an eternity in unendurable mindbending agony for committing suicide is quite terrifying as once a person has made that decision they have no option of reversing it and they cannot "suicide" thier way out of Hell's horrors. Five billion trillion milleniums from now they will still be suffering in such agony with no repreive in sight for an eternity. The idea makes me cringe. This is the case if one subscribes to the classical christian/catholic view (in my limitted understanding).

I do find this angering when one takes into account this whole catholic/christian concept of forgiveness. If one thinks about this it is actually quite sick. According to my own religion;
If I steal I can be forgiven and go to heaven;
If I kill I can be forgiven and go to heaven;
If I rape I can be forgiven and go to heaven;
Hypothetically, scumbags who molest little kids can be forgiven and go to heaven!!

However If I am in terrible pain and I choose to end my life to escape suffering I will be condemed to suffering in agony for an eternity???????????? This is twisted!!!

I do not presume to know the answer however I do feel that the interpretations of religion are somewhat questionable.

It has once been suggested that when the churches and kings ran societies they oppressed thier subjects to the point that life was a constant state of suffering for a commoner. A kings subjects sufferd to serve his needs. People had such miserable lives that they would probably have been better off dead. The problem was that if every peasant killed themselves then the elite would have nobody to serve them. Therefore they needed to make the serving class afraid of exiting this world to avoid a servant shortage.

It has also been suggetsed that suicide is a Darwinian affect. Suicide is in some cases seen as natures way of weeding out those that cannot cope and who have no natural predators. In nature if an animal is to weak to cope it is eaten. In our soiciety we have safety nets which while effective, can in the short run keep people who have little reason to exist in state of mere survival while not really living. Perhaps suicide is natures way of providing a mercifull release from a futile existenc (there has been evidence of suicide in the animal world, for example the dolphin who played flipper was alleged to have deliberately drowned himself). This is not to say that suicide should not be avoided when possible as many great futures have been cut short by this tragedy.

In conclusion I do have a clear point nor do I expect to have provided any great insight to this issue, as I do not know the truth. I did want to offer an opinion of my own. I hope that at least I have not added to your greif.

By the way those of you who are making jokes in poor taste to Valcore for mere amusement please tak a moment to ask yourself how you would feel of the shoe was on the other foot.

Richards.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[bianuan 0]

Im originally from Ireland, though living in the UK where attitudes are a little more allowing, this may be different to North America interpretations.
In Ireland the church's attitude towards suicide affects even how the inquests into these deaths are carried out. It has only been recently made not illegal to try to kill yourself in the UK.
To get an open verdict from the inquest instead of suicide is considered good news for the family, suicide isnt spoken of generally, it is a skeleton in the cupboard for the family and suicide victims are thought to have been selfish - not my thoughts in any way shape or form.
On a human level i know that the priests etc agree with the illness causing it, but if i were to follow the religeous philosophy to the letter then there is no way round it, taking God given life is a mortal sin regardless of cause. This is why I am unable to continue being a Catholic or even a Christian any more. But thats just me and my reaction to it and the people who believed it and informed me of this at the time.
I have no intention of causing offense to anyone, i just thought my experiences with regard to this were worth contributing to this thread. They may well not be the right ones for everyone.
( Please ignore if you disagree

Ann

[sky-pimp 0]

i was brought up a methodist christian , but i'm not a practiseing one .
apparently suicide is a no no if you ask the vic a straight question .
but !! if you put it to a few people in the congrigation with the story that you are terminally ill and are going to go through a long and painfull death , suffering all the way and youthanazia was avalible ... then there oppinian was a little differant to 'yes you go to hell' .

anyways your church is what you make it ,
all gods are one and the same with a differant name
but still people like to kill each other over it ..DA .. wake up and smell the roses coz they are there if you look ..

anyways my church is cloud 3 on the left

YeHaaaaaaaaaaa

[rwieder 0]

Insurance companies ruled that death by sky diving is suicide, does that make it so? In the end, we can make up all the polls we want and voice our opinions, which a lot of us have. That means nothing. In the end what really matters is "What's behind door # 1" The only way to find that out for sure is to pass into the next life, if there is one. If your a christian, you have to believe in life everlasting, so then that said, there must be another life after this one.

Point being, any opinion(s) are merely speculative at best. The only way to find out for sure is to make the journey.

God gave man a mind, and a free will to use it as he pleases, and then had the bible written through prophets to try and "Show us the way" So whatever we do, right or wrong, i doubt ignorance of the law is going to be a good enough excuse to get a "Get out of hell free card" should we make some wrong choices.

Bear in mind, this is my opinion, and my thoughts, that don't make them right or wrong, and these thoughts don't mean anything to anybody but me.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[beowulf 1]

How we die is unimportant. What is important is how we live, that we have control over.