Kanye West...

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

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I think all that anyone can really do is acknowledge the differences but make the effort to look for a common ground.

I agree there are differences in people's culture, ethnicity, backgroud, and experiences which forms their belief system. I know everyone is not always going to get along, but the more we look past the 'im __ color', i was abused', 'i am homosexual', 'i am __ religion' and focus on the core attitudes such as 'i depend on myself', 'i expect to be taken care of'. 'the world revolves around me', 'i want to help out who I can', then a more productive dialogue can come about, with hopefully some understanding.

I really think we are talking about the same thing.

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[dmcoco84 4]

Thats some funny s**t! I saw it on the Daily Show last night!

[lawrocket 3]

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Regardless of what is true the reality is that a large portion of the Black community are up in arms and fed up with their "lot in life".

I think you've hit upon a problem. "Regardless of the reality." There is a portion of me that believes that in reality, the Black community ha shad a pretty lousy lot in life. On the other hand, I also believe that an appreciation of reality will help cure this.

The problem in our society is that I do not believe that there is anything that the white community can do to help with this. As you said, the perceived injustices are held against the white folks. What the hell can we do when we are already operating from a position of mistrust?

Only the black community can help with these "perceptions." Unfortunately, those who are the loudest and get the most support are those who continue with these perceptions.

it's important to note that David Duke won a seat on the Louisiana House in the late 1980's, when Lousiana was suffering from some pretty dismal economic conditions. At that time, it was easier for the whites to blame the blakcs than it was to look at themselves to expalin their plight.

I do not think this situation is much different in theory. The difference is in practice, where it is politically valuable to race bait.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Zenister 0]

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From my cracker point of view, it is a total joke when a rich black guy talks as if he is one of the oppressed ones. Kanye West is only one example.

Ironically most people who can view his background without bias feel the same way about Bush's downhome everyman cowboy image.

unfortuantely 51% of the populace 'bought it' of course given the choices.....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[ViperPilot 0]

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The fact is they exist and are potentially a threat to this country's stability

Yeah, but I just don't think they're big enough to pose any kind of real threat to our stability.

[waltappel 1]

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From my cracker point of view, it is a total joke when a rich black guy talks as if he is one of the oppressed ones. Kanye West is only one example.

Ironically most people who can view his background without bias feel the same way about Bush's downhome everyman cowboy image.

unfortuantely 51% of the populace 'bought it' of course given the choices.....

And I was one of those people. I had no illusions about him. I just figured he was the lesser of two evils. I was glad when a friend voted for Kerry because I knew it would effectively cancel out both our votes.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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The fact is they exist and are potentially a threat to this country's stability

Yeah, but I just don't think they're big enough to pose any kind of real threat to our stability.

9/11 showed us that a very small group of people motivated by deep resentment and hatred toward the US government can really do some damage. They were not an immediate threat to our stability but they got our attention in a big way.

In this post-9/11 era we can hardly affort internal divisiveness, which makes those who are striving to keep the hate alive more of a threat than they would otherwise be.

At the same time they have been media darlings for years because of the sensationalistic flavor of their rhetoric. Unreal.

Walt

[erikzero 0]

What kanye west did was not to smart. If he had something to say he should have been more professional about it.

BUT!!

It is really sad to see people posting who don't have a clue about government, race or George bush.

please do some reseach about the bush family and you will understand why kanye said such things.

I am hispanic and grew up in the Ghetto in Brooklyn New York. Most skydivers grew up in the suburbs, and are white. you people will never understand unless you lived it.

THIS THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED OR LOCKED!!!

YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

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I am hispanic and grew up in the Ghetto in Brooklyn New York. Most skydivers grew up in the suburbs, and are white. you people will never understand unless you lived it.

Wow that is a pretty general stereotype of skydivers.

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please do some reseach about the bush family and you will understand why kanye said such things

I got to say, if anyone did research on my family, they would think I was not a member of it.

Please do not contribute to the problem by making such stereotypes and assumptions.

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[justinb138 0]

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From my cracker point of view, it is a total joke when a rich black guy talks as if he is one of the oppressed ones. Kanye West is only one example.

Agreed. When I heard him use the term "us" in his rant, my first thought was "When the hell were you in N.O.?".

Personally, he sickens me. He took advantage of a charity event to push his own agenda. Regardless of what his message was, his goal was not to help anyone in N.O., he was there solely for his own personal gain. Unfortunatly, because of all the media attention he is getting, it worked.

[erikzero 0]

open your eyes and take a good look around you.

what kanye did was wrong
but read some of the posts.

They are very sad i would expect more from skydivers

and yes this is a skydiving forum

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

Ok, I opened my eyes and see more horse shit on the computer than down in the barn.

You making assumptions about how sydivers should act and believe are just as egregious as those people who lump people together based on race, religion, and such.

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[Newbie 0]

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I am hispanic and grew up in the Ghetto in Brooklyn New York. Most skydivers grew up in the suburbs, and are white. you people will never understand unless you lived it.

Wow that is a pretty general stereotype of skydivers.

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please do some reseach about the bush family and you will understand why kanye said such things

I got to say, if anyone did research on my family, they would think I was not a member of it.

Please do not contribute to the problem by making such stereotypes and assumptions.

Well he does have a point - most skydivers ARE caucasoid. Not all, but the majority are. I don't agree with the generalisation, but you have to admit the stats don't lie. We are mostly honkey crackas around here, no denying, yee har etc etc

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[erikzero 0]

thank you is is good to see you understand what i am getting at.

I am not trying to start waves.

I am very upset at the posts in here

watermelon and KFC?
what kind of shit is that?
their is no need for that

I love skydivers, they are my family
and have been part my life for 5 years and will continue to be till I die.

it all comes down to people should not post about things they don't understand

ask questions first and make your self knowlegeable
then comment


peace im out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rehmwa 2]

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I am very upset at the posts in here

watermelon and KFC?
what kind of shit is that?
their is no need for that

Some were pretty insulting, but they all came from Eaglenrider (true or not, he portrays himself as a minority). Maybe you should PM him rather than castigate all the posters.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[meltdown 0]

So how can we lower the heat?
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No whitey can lower the heat. It will only happen if and when people start to recognize so-called black "leaders" like Jesse Jackson and his ilk for what they are - dividers who increase their power by creating more division. If more people would open their minds and see they their attitudes and actions have more to do with their lot in life than their skin color, then we'll see some change.

[JohnRich 4]

From Drudge:

'THE BIG BOO' CROWD HISSES KANYE WEST

The chart topping hip hop rapper star who used a network hurricane fundraiser to charge "George Bush doesn't care about black people" was loudly and lustily booed during last night's NFL kickoff show.

The appearance of Kanye West, who was beamed into the Boston stadium via remote from Los Angeles, received a strongly negative response from the crowd.

"The boos were thunderous and lasted for much of his number," reports the BOSTON GLOBE.

Just desserts.

[aprilcat 0]

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...has been in the news lately because of some race-baiting remarks he made about the federal government's handling of the Hurricane Katrina disaster.

Here's a link.

He's no Jesse Jackson, but his remarks are every bit as bizarre.

Walt

I suggest you view your link again and turn off the things that happened to you in your high school days and look at this young man as he says what he is saying.

I don't see how anyone could look at the footage coming from the South could not be emotionally unbalanced at it. A tragedy is a tragedy--its sad this young man remarks made a larger impression and got the focus off of what is really going on--people were losing everything and it didn't matter what color they were.

I looked at your link. I've seen the clip on the news (not live) and I keep coming up with the same impression: this is a young man who is in shock and whomever put him in front of the cameras with a scripted text should have found out if he was up to the task beforehand.

Is it wrong for him not to be in awe and voice his personal views? He is not a journalistr--he's an entertainer and you can't expect an entertainer to be a 'professional' journalist.

I don't know if (in the LONG run) he is right or wrong.Maybe one day President Bush will get up and state 'you know what? I DON'T care about black people', but this young man was reacting to some very disturbing events. He uses the term 'us' because that is what he saw--people like himself in crisis. What did you expect to hear him say? 'Them'? The first Admendment protects his right to say what is on his mind. Sucks that he couldn't be shot on the spot, huh? He, like you, is an American citizen. He doesn't have to have the popular concensus behind him. He had a right to voice his fear and that is what he did. Give him a chance to follow up on his actions and see how he feels about his knee-jerk reactions. Most of us, when experiencing the 'unbelieveable' will say things that require clarification from us later.

I don't think what he said was 'race-baiting'; again I clearly see he was in shock. YOU on the other hand, have had sufficient time to gauge your comments, and I agree with EricZero, tyour comments are very heavy-handed and ill-thought out.

What 'Black Community' do you have privileged information to know that all we need is a bucket of chicken, a 40 of malt liquor and a pack of Kools and a 'government overthrow' to make us happy? I've lived in the Black Community all my life, and making belittling comments such as these are quite 'bizarre' as your take on Jesse Jackson (I don't see where he fits IN here, but I'll follow your lead for a minute). You've had time to come up with an intelligent response instead of stereotyping and even worse, giving YOUR list of amenties the black community (in your mind) needs to make it complacent with 'the' government and less of a threat to (yes, I'll say it) YOUR way of life.

The Black Community I know and grew up in is NOT trying to 'get' anything from you. We are trying to keep our heads above water without harming the guy next to us. We're trying to hang on to our jobs and careers while raising decent children. Nobody wants their children (or themselves) to be promoted while performing at a substandard level, we want to understand the material and master it. Affirmative action worked for whites for a long time and I do not advocate it for anyone, but for the love of Mike, don't get up in arms because its changed names from 'Good Ole Boy' networking to 'Affirmative Action'.

Are my views on the Black Community and what shock Kanye West was in when he made his public comments, just my way of 'whitewashing' things? Perhaps. But mine is a less detrimental way of trying to reason with a racial divide, than starting a thread defining the remarks of scared human as race-baiting, then fall into some of the most insulting and pointless stereotypes I can come up with.

Raise the bar, my friend., Blue Skies~~April
Edited to add: I came into the SC to see if anyone heard that sound bite that was inserted into Christ Rock's segement last night, but I'll wait till its posted allover the web to get a reaction on that.~~A.

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[waltappel 1]

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I suggest you view your link again and turn off the things that happened to you in your high school days and look at this young man as he says what he is saying.

The things that happened to me in high school were not a factor at all. That was a very long time ago and hardly influences my current thinking with the exception of having seen racial tension up close and personal.

I looked at the video and I did look at him as he was saying what he was saying.

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I don't see how anyone could look at the footage coming from the South could not be emotionally unbalanced at it. A tragedy is a tragedy--its sad this young man remarks made a larger impression and got the focus off of what is really going on--people were losing everything and it didn't matter what color they were.

His remarks hardly made a larger impression on anyone than the Hurrican Katrina damage. I have no clue where you got that idea from.

What made an impression was that he seemed to be using the tragedy for his own political and social agenda and that is disgusting no matter who does it.

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I looked at your link. I've seen the clip on the news (not live) and I keep coming up with the same impression: this is a young man who is in shock and whomever put him in front of the cameras with a scripted text should have found out if he was up to the task beforehand.

Blame someone else. Excellent idea. Personal accountability is highly over-rated, isn't it?

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Is it wrong for him not to be in awe and voice his personal views? He is not a journalistr--he's an entertainer and you can't expect an entertainer to be a 'professional' journalist.

It's not about him voicing his personal views so much as it is him pushing his own political and social agenda rather than helping the situation. Demagoguery, plain and simple.

How about his remarks at Live 8 at Philadelphia?

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanye_West#Biography:

On 2 July 2005 West appeared on the Philadelphia bill of Live 8, using the global platform to refer to "man-made diseases placed in African communities", expressing his belief that AIDS was created by the U.S. government to exterminate Africans in Africa (see also OPV AIDS hypothesis). He made the parallel between the government using AIDS to exterminate Africans and using crack to destroy African-American communities and halt the civil rights movement. He also criticised politicians for "riding home in their Benzs and Bentleys while poor Africans starve".


Was he in shock then? BTW, what kind of car do you think he drives? I suspect it is not a beat up old Volkswagen.

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I don't know if (in the LONG run) he is right or wrong.Maybe one day President Bush will get up and state 'you know what? I DON'T care about black people', but this young man was reacting to some very disturbing events. He uses the term 'us' because that is what he saw--people like himself in crisis.

People like himself? That is a joke. He was raised in the suburbs of Chicago. He is a businessman living a life of privilege. How the hell does that make him like impoverished people who have lost everything? On a socioeconomic level I am one hell of a lot closer to being like those people than he is, and I'm not anywhere close to being in their shoes.

Oh, that's right, he has the same skin color. That makes him one of them. Now that is some progressive and intellectually honest thinking if I've ever seen it--NOT!!!

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What did you expect to hear him say? 'Them'? The first Admendment protects his right to say what is on his mind.

I don't know, maybe something that would get some help to the people who need it instead of using the situation to fan the flames of hatred? Just a thought.

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Sucks that he couldn't be shot on the spot, huh?

I'm white and therefore I want to shoot him because he's black and I disagree with his views? C'mon, I'm sure you can do better stereotyping than that!

What sucks that he's using a tragedy to push his own political and social agenda.

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He, like you, is an American citizen. He doesn't have to have the popular concensus behind him. He had a right to voice his fear and that is what he did. Give him a chance to follow up on his actions and see how he feels about his knee-jerk reactions. Most of us, when experiencing the 'unbelieveable' will say things that require clarification from us later.

(referring to earlier discussion) Just like his knee-jerk reactions at Live 8?

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I don't think what he said was 'race-baiting'; again I clearly see he was in shock.

Or acting. He's a performer--they make a living at being disingenuous. Ever heard the phrase "willing suspension of disbelief"?

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YOU on the other hand, have had sufficient time to gauge your comments, and I agree with EricZero, tyour comments are very heavy-handed and ill-thought out.

EricZero had no clue about my interaction with eaglenrider. I'm quite sure he had never read any of Cliff's previous posts--and there are a lot of them in Speakers Corner. As rehmwa said in his response to EricZero, eaglenrider, whether true or not, portrays himself as a minority. Specifically, he claims to be black and has made quite a number of outrageous posts. I take his posts at face value and assume there is some reasonable level of honesty behind them. He is one of my favorite posters--not because I agree with his views (usually, I don't) but because he has a very blunt, lay-it-on-the-line style.

Many people here, including me, have a history of interaction with Cliff here in Speakers Corner. I can understand how someone coming in late in the came and not having that history could have a reaction like EricZero's, but I found it very ironic that he was bashing people here for knowing nothing about ghetto life (or whatever) and saying we should do some research, when he obviously did not even take the minute or two required to check out eaglenrider's profile and posts in Speakers Corner to see who he was talking to.

I would suggest you look into that also.

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What 'Black Community' do you have privileged information to know that all we need is a bucket of chicken, a 40 of malt liquor and a pack of Kools and a 'government overthrow' to make us happy?

I didn't bring up the bucket of chicken. My response that mentioned the malt liquor and Kools was a sarcastic response. Once again, many people here, including me, have a history with eaglenrider.

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I've lived in the Black Community all my life, and making belittling comments such as these are quite 'bizarre' as your take on Jesse Jackson (I don't see where he fits IN here, but I'll follow your lead for a minute).

Jesse Jackson fits in here because he is a prime example of demagoguery. Remember when he loudly came to the defense of those poor young black guys that were expelled from high school for assaulting people at a football game and starting a riot? He was shouting racism at the top of his lungs until a video surface that showed the guys in action at that game. Like Jesse Jackson, Kanye West is a race-baiter. Again, refer to his remarks at Live 8.

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You've had time to come up with an intelligent response instead of stereotyping and even worse, giving YOUR list of amenties the black community (in your mind) needs to make it complacent with 'the' government and less of a threat to (yes, I'll say it) YOUR way of life.

Make that OUR way of life. Oh, that's right, I'm WHITEY. I life the Whitey lifestyle, which is so far removed from the black lifestyle that I could not possibly understand.

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The Black Community I know and grew up in is NOT trying to 'get' anything from you. We are trying to keep our heads above water without harming the guy next to us. We're trying to hang on to our jobs and careers while raising decent children. Nobody wants their children (or themselves) to be promoted while performing at a substandard level, we want to understand the material and master it.

Oh, what a surprise. You are describing the Whitey lifestyle.

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Affirmative action worked for whites for a long time and I do not advocate it for anyone, but for the love of Mike, don't get up in arms because its changed names from 'Good Ole Boy' networking to 'Affirmative Action'.

Again, you can do a better job of stereotyping than that. "Good Ole Boy Networking". Yep, all white people have gotten where they are because of the vast white conspiracy. And since we have been keeping the black man down all these years, then it's time to turn the tables and institutionalize reverse racism. Brilliant.

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Are my views on the Black Community and what shock Kanye West was in when he made his public comments, just my way of 'whitewashing' things? Perhaps. But mine is a less detrimental way of trying to reason with a racial divide, than starting a thread defining the remarks of scared human as race-baiting, then fall into some of the most insulting and pointless stereotypes I can come up with.

Do you still buy into that "deer in the headlights" look so much that you honestly label him as a scared human being?

edited to add:
Kanye West's mother recently retired from her position as chair of the English department at Chicago State University. Not exactly the son of a poor sharecropper is he?

from http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1478789/posts:

Kanye West's first week sales are expected to reach the 900,000 mark following the super producer's off-the-cuff rant about the president during MSNBC's recent Concert for Hurricane Relief.

Could a sincere guy like Kanye West have used tragedy as a platform to boost sales--especially less than a week after being on the cover of Time Magazine and releasing an album? No, he wouldn't do that, now would he?

Walt

[eaglenrider 0]

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I am very upset at the posts in here

watermelon and KFC?
what kind of shit is that?
their is no need for that

__________________________________________________

First skydiver from the ghetto???

That be a case of beer. Bring somethin other than Tecate, OK. Schlitz Malt Liquor be a good thing from my perspective.

And you are so right!
I really shouldn't have re-enforced those racial stereotypes! Certainly there is no *Truth* in them!!!!

I mean really ,
Blacks hate watermelon and abhor the idea of masticating poultry flesh fried in pig fat!!!
Jews are some of the most generous people I've met and they *never* whine.
Catholic priests go flacid at the sight of an altar boy on his knees!
Japanese men are *very* well endowed !
White men in business suits never talk too loud on their cell phones in restaurants saying "done deal" and "keep me in the loop"....
Asian Indians (you know the ones with the "dot") never own Dunkin' Donut franchises or Motels 6. Their houses never stink!
Puerto Ricans never grab their crotch in public!

-- There are no *hot* blondes in Sweden!--

The English take very good care of their teeth!
Irish people NEVER drink!

And as far as Hispanics, I hate to lump them all into one category, and I'm not certain which variety you belong to. Are you Chicano, Mexican, Guatemalan, Puerto Rican, Brazilian, Venezuelan.., I mean, just how much Spic is in your Hispanic - give me a ratio to work with so I can figure out your racial profile. Exactly how much black blood, how much Spanish blood, how much white blood, I know you're a Mulatto but I need some percentages!!

Oh well, chances are probably pretty good that you've never put hydraulics on the suspension of your car, hung dingleberries all around the interior, or dedicated a shrine to the Virgin Mary or Jesus Christ on the frickin' cross (complete with candles) in the rear window of your vehicle. There's just no chance of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I can see how a reference to KFC and watermelon would probably upset a tough guy from "the ghetto".

My most sincere apologies.

Blues,
Cliff White

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[justinb138 0]

[aprilcat 0]

Many people here, including me, have a history of interaction with Cliff here in Speakers Corner. I can understand how someone coming in late in the came and not having that history could have a reaction like EricZero's, but I found it very ironic that he was bashing people here for knowing nothing about ghetto life (or whatever) and saying we should do some research, when he obviously did not even take the minute or two required to check out eaglenrider's profile and posts in Speakers Corner to see who he was talking to.

I would suggest you look into that also."
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There are a lot of things in your post that I won't dignify with quoting as West's remarks were directed to President Bush, but if you want to wear them and internalize them to mean the ENTIRE Country I'm not sure when you became the voice of America. Because I don't post here in SC often does not mean I don't read it. I don't have to know a persons relationship to another to see something in a public forum and come to a conclusion and remark; if this is some sort of inside joke, maybe you should have kept it as such and not require people read your resume to understand you.
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Oh, that's right, he has the same skin color. That makes him one of them. Now that is some progressive and intellectually honest thinking if I've ever seen it--NOT!!!"
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You said it, I didn't. See your second post: but his remarks about the government authorizing soldiers to shoot "us" and saying George Bush doesn't care about blacks is just another example of hostile black attitude.

Using phrases like 'Oh, thats right, I'm a whitey' is throwback, unproductive and just shows you paint with a broad brush. I'm not going to get into it with you. I stand by what I said as you do, and if you choose to pick it apart and divide every little comment into black and white, then thats your bag. Enjoy it.
Cheers~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[Everon 0]

First off, Walt, being someone who worked at an arab-owned beverage store when I was in college at E. 141st and Harvard Ave. in Cleveland (predominantly black neighboorhood) I feel compelled to correct you. It is:

Gimme a foty a fo-five an a pack a Newpo! Make dat a foty a Billy D and a pint a T-bird!

Now, before any minority attacks me for this, I have many a black friend - and I'm always teasing them about this, as they tease me with lots of "white" jabs. My friend Winny (black) never allows me to eat at a "white" KFC. "U MFs don't know yo chicken." He's right!

Seriously, what Mr. West did is unforgivable. He clearly feels this way, but this should be kept to himself and friends and family - not broadcast on tv knowing it's going to be plastered there for everyone too see. He stepped way over the line on this one.

[waltappel 1]

Aw c'mon April, have a 40 and chill.

Walt

[ViperPilot 0]

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9/11 showed us that a very small group of people motivated by deep resentment and hatred toward the US government can really do some damage. They were not an immediate threat to our stability but they got our attention in a big way.

Well, I don't think a group of black people are about to hijack airplanes or go on a suicide bombing run through a mall. I just don't see it...it's not in our culture...unless they converted (I'll probably get shit for that one).