Jimbo 0 #1 May 21, 2005 Cristel, enjoy your new speed limit: (OK, it's not law -yet- but it will be interesting, I think, to watch this one play out) http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12389-1610994,00.html QuoteEurope-wide 62mph limit mooted The European Union’s energy commissioner has called for a 100kph — 62mph — speed limit to be adopted throughout Europe. Andris Piebalgs said roads in all 25 member states should be posted with a uniform limit to cut accidents and save fuel. His suggestion follows a recommendation by the International Energy Association in Paris and is seen as a quick way to cut energy consumption in response to depleted oil reserves. “If in Germany cars are speeding at 200kph (124mph) they are using too much petrol,” said Piebalgs. He was speaking at a meeting in Germany, where motorists enjoy the only speed-limit-free roads in the EU. A comment on the website of Der Spiegel, the German news magazine, said: “With those speed limits we would be castrated.” More coverage on speeding and safety Piebalgs’s proposal came as the European economic and social committee, a body that advises the European commission on drawing up new legislation, launched an initiative to create a common European highway code. Its aim is to remove the wide variations in road regulations of member states. The committee said that in Portugal it is illegal to drive with daytime lights while in northern and eastern Europe lights cannot be switched off. Critics point out the contrasting weather conditions in Scandinavia and Portugal. The committee wants a commission white paper, with legislation to follow. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 May 21, 2005 When the US dropped its national speed limit (55MPH), accident rates and highway fatalities dropped considerably (based on every million miles driven). The only reason why there's been a degredation in our national MPG average is the influx of SUVs over the past 10 years. Many cars get better mileage at 80MPH than they do at 60MPH. I know the peak mileage for my Prelude is between 75 and 80. Also, the slower you force traffic to go, the higher the congestion, the higher the density of cars per mile and thus, the greater the pollution. I'm sure that Europe's diesel dependence would really offer a sweet smell. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #3 May 21, 2005 >Many cars get better mileage at 80MPH than they do at 60MPH. I >know the peak mileage for my Prelude is between 75 and 80. The efficiency 'peak' for most cars is between 40 and 50mph. This is the speed where aerodynamic drag begins to dominate, and once drag enters the picture, you cannot go any faster without sacrificing fuel economy. Why? Because drag goes up by a factor of velocity cubed. It's eight times harder to move a car at twice the speed. There's no way around this, no clever trick that allows you to avoid aerodynamics, no trick of engine design that can negate the additional drag. (Well, you could put all roads underground and pump the air out of the tunnels - but then you have other problems.) Every controlled test ever done shows a decrease in fuel economy when you drive faster than 55mph in a properly functioning internal combustion vehicle, as compared to mileage at 55mph. Not suprisingly, in the absence of a controlled test, many drivers 'discover' that their car gets the best fuel economy at the speeds they prefer driving at. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #4 May 21, 2005 Yea and in Britain they drive on the wrong side of the road, you've gotta do something about that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antidote 0 #5 May 21, 2005 Blah blah blah blah. He can call for whatever he bloody wants. Won't happen. We recently went from 110km/h to 130 km/h and it's been pretty well received. Try pulling it down to 100km/h . Whatever political group that pulled that stunt would find itself removed from power and replaced by a more speed friendly one, probably anti-EU. They talk a lot, the fine gentlemen in the EU. That is probably why so much of EUs budget goes to agriculture - all the bullshit they spew out can be sold as fertilizer that way. I wouldn't worry too much about it, and I doubt you worry about it either Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #6 May 22, 2005 Yeah, we're going to change things slowly..... lorries will start next week and the rest of us a week later .... Oh and taxis already [think they] do own both sides of the road (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #7 May 22, 2005 Quote Cristel, enjoy your new speed limit: ... Hi Jimbo, I do, I do, I do... still enjoy the present ones, as there are quite a lot of freeways where I love to drive up to 240 km/h with my new Golf, never tried more. For me, around 200 km/h are enough to really enjoy the speed. Furthermore, I'd like to refer to Antidot's post, it says all. Who the hell is Andris Pie..pie......what ?? Anyhow, thx a lot for that post. Let's talk again about that matter in 10 yrs. Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #8 May 23, 2005 If the speed limit's going anywhere on the motorways in the UK it's up. Public opinion would simply crucify any govt. that tried to lower it. If I do 80mph I'm in the slow lane being over taken by every other car on the road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merkur 1 #9 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuote Cristel, enjoy your new speed limit: ... Hi Jimbo, I do, I do, I do... So did I. Yesterdays 220km/h (sorry - no speedy Golf like Christel) has been fun - like always M.vSCR No.94 Don't dream your life - live your dream! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #10 May 23, 2005 Not speed limits, but solving traffic jams will solve the polution problem. At 120Km/h my 3.0V6 mitsibishi sigma uses about 8km/liter At 170Km/h it's 6km/liter In a severe traffic jam it's 1km/liter So what is the problem here The 170km/hour is of course in germany. (Just in case some stupid dutch speed chasing police officer is reading this) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #11 May 24, 2005 Quote>Many cars get better mileage at 80MPH than they do at 60MPH. I >know the peak mileage for my Prelude is between 75 and 80. The efficiency 'peak' for most cars is between 40 and 50mph. This is the speed where aerodynamic drag begins to dominate, and once drag enters the picture, you cannot go any faster without sacrificing fuel economy. Why? Because drag goes up by a factor of velocity cubed. It's eight times harder to move a car at twice the speed. There's no way around this, no clever trick that allows you to avoid aerodynamics, no trick of engine design that can negate the additional drag. (Well, you could put all roads underground and pump the air out of the tunnels - but then you have other problems.) Every controlled test ever done shows a decrease in fuel economy when you drive faster than 55mph in a properly functioning internal combustion vehicle, as compared to mileage at 55mph. Not suprisingly, in the absence of a controlled test, many drivers 'discover' that their car gets the best fuel economy at the speeds they prefer driving at. I can't argue against your scientific points. Remember also that rarely do we "drive alone". Whenever I am on a long trip, I always find that "pack" of cars going the same speed I want to go. Four cars driving at a safe interval behind each other do not face the factors of a "controlled" environment.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #12 May 24, 2005 >Four cars driving at a safe interval behind each other do not face the >factors of a "controlled" environment. At safe intervals (i.e. 150 feet or so) the benefit you get from drafting other vehicles of your type is negligible. You'd get a lot more benefit from a 10mph tailwind; it would be the equivalent of dropping your speed by 10mph.. You could be twenty feet behind another car and get an appreciable benefit from his draft, but then again, that's not all that safe. BTW from some impromptu experiments on the Priuschat forum, Priuses have gotten a 30% boost in fuel economy by following a semi within 25 feet. That goes down to about 5% at 100 feet, and isn't noticeable at 150 feet. And this is in a car that can make use of 'negative energy' (i.e. can recapture energy when drafting and going downhill.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #13 May 24, 2005 Doesn't body style and drag co-efficient affect the point at which mileage starts dramatically dropping? Won't a sportscar have a higher max efficient speed than a fullsize van? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 May 24, 2005 I would expect the best fuel economy to be at the lowest rpms in top gear that doesn't result in lugging. The equation might be different with hybrids. Drag is king with motorcycles, which have a terrible coefficient. I'll get around 40mpg on the freeway going 70-80. But a day in the hills riding with a little spirit cycling up and down between 25 and 60mph, I'm likely to get closer to 50mpg. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #15 May 25, 2005 Quote>Four cars driving at a safe interval behind each other do not face the >factors of a "controlled" environment. At safe intervals (i.e. 150 feet or so) the benefit you get from drafting other vehicles of your type is negligible. You'd get a lot more benefit from a 10mph tailwind; it would be the equivalent of dropping your speed by 10mph.. You could be twenty feet behind another car and get an appreciable benefit from his draft, but then again, that's not all that safe. BTW ... Again though you point out how uncontrolled the environment we drive through is. Car and Driver managed 125~mpg from a Honda Insight following a modified Suburban at about 2 feet, taking radio instruction.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #16 May 26, 2005 What self serving crap. Guess who is trying to justify their overpayed job Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #17 May 26, 2005 > Car and Driver managed 125~mpg from a Honda Insight following >a modified Suburban at about 2 feet, taking radio instruction. Yep. And they drove at 58mph average. Had they driven faster they would have gotten a lower mileage overall, because cars are more efficient at ~55mph than at higher speeds. You will, overall, get better mileage at 55mph than at 75mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #18 May 27, 2005 Quote> Car and Driver managed 125~mpg from a Honda Insight following >a modified Suburban at about 2 feet, taking radio instruction. Yep. And they drove at 58mph average. Had they driven faster they would have gotten a lower mileage overall, because cars are more efficient at ~55mph than at higher speeds. You will, overall, get better mileage at 55mph than at 75mph. Of course you left out that alone and without drafting on the highway, they managed 70mpg at 65mph. On the track, in a "controlled" condition, they managed 102mpg at 32mph. My final point on this is simply that those that proclaim that there's monumental fuel savings or safety benefits to a "national" speed limits are incorrect. There may be some fuel savings, but unless you pull a "Car and Driver" act, in a hybrid, you're talking 1-2 mpg at speeds between 60-85mph. On my trip to SC (from Ft Campbell) yesterday, my first 326 miles used approximately 11 gallons of premium gas, about 29mpg, over the course of 4 hours or a rough average of 81mph. All while my engine (not tuned for economy) was singing away at about 4200rpm. I'm not complaining.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 May 27, 2005 Quote>Because drag goes up by a factor of velocity cubed. Really? The aero component goes as squared. Where's the other? Is there a surface (rolling) friction component? or a ground effect I don't recall? Honest question, I recall the cubed relation from submersibles, but can't remember why it's cubed instead of square. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
