French Terrorism laws

[storm1977 0]

I find it strange that there has been so much criticism of the USA from Europe over our detainies in GITMO.

Reading some articles I have found out that in FRANCE, suspected terrorist can be held for 3 years on French soil without being charged. This very much sounds like what the USA is doing it GITMO, however, GITMO is technically not part of the USA.

Now, I live in the USA, listen to Euronews and the BBC, but I had heard nothing reguarding this until a recent incident. 4 prisoners from GITMO were released by the USA to France.... Once in France, the French government arrested them and is now holding them without charging them.

So, why isn't there a large protest against France for this? Why only the US? Is it me or am I just not reading and listening to the right sources?

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[DrunkMonkey 0]

The French are still suffering under the delusion that they are a world power, economic, military, or otherwise...

[Frenchy68 0]

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The French are still suffering under the delusion that they are a world power, economic, military, or otherwise...

Not quite sure what this otherwise brilliantly researched statement had to do with the subject at hand...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 2,428]

>Not quite sure what this otherwise brilliantly researched statement
>had to do with the subject at hand...

A bash against the french is felt by some to be a requirement for any thread on Speaker's Corner.

[rehmwa 2]

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>Not quite sure what this otherwise brilliantly researched statement
>had to do with the subject at hand...

A bash against the french is felt by some to be a requirement for any thread on Speaker's Corner.

ditto U.S., ditto Democrats, ditto Republicans, ditto cypres users, and so on

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[happythoughts 0]

I don't know if this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Years ago, France had a terrible problem with terrorism and bombings during the 70's and 80's. Every time a terrorist was caught, a new string of bombings, grenade attacks, and shootings would go on to free the imprisoned members.

French domestic intelligence officers, airlines, embassy employees around the world, and French citizens were constant targets. Even the former French president was a target of a bomb attack that missed.

Roads near embassies in Paris were avoided like the plague.

They lived through a constant assault from Swiss, French, German, Italian, and Arab groups. Drastic times call for drastic actions.

[AndyMan 7]

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A bash against the french is felt by some to be a requirement for any thread on Speaker's Corner.

What's that got to do with Bill Clinton getting sucked off in the Oval Office?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[JohnRich 4]

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A bash against the french America is felt by some to be a requirement for any thread on Speaker's Corner.

There, I fixed that statement for you.

It's ironic that some people think America is evil for mistreating a few prisoners in Abu Gahrib, but those same people didn't utter so much as a squeek about Sadam Hussein running his entire population of 25 million people like a giant Abu Gahrib prison.

It's also ironic that they suddenly think that prisoners of war should be released before the war is over, when no nation has ever done that before, nor expected it.

[Frenchy68 0]

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It's ironic that some people think America is evil for mistreating a few prisoners in Abu Gahrib, but those same people didn't utter so much as a squeek about Sadam Hussein running his entire population of 25 million people like a giant Abu Gahrib prison.

You're right. Although I suspect that those who knew of SH's regime prior to its focus being the flavor of the moment were as appalled as they are by the Abu Gahrib issue.
I also find it somewhat amusing to see how many people have come out of the woodworks lately professing their love for the Iraqi people and their well deserved quest for freedom. Few years ago, these people were probably holding hands with the ones ignoring SH's treatment of political opponents...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[storm1977 0]

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I don't know if this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Years ago, France had a terrible problem with terrorism and bombings during the 70's and 80's. Every time a terrorist was caught, a new string of bombings, grenade attacks, and shootings would go on to free the imprisoned members.

French domestic intelligence officers, airlines, embassy employees around the world, and French citizens were constant targets. Even the former French president was a target of a bomb attack that missed.

Roads near embassies in Paris were avoided like the plague.

They lived through a constant assault from Swiss, French, German, Italian, and Arab groups. Drastic times call for drastic actions.

Here is an article from the Washinton post on this.... I just googled it. I assume the washinton post has their facts straight on the French law as I have seen it written in many places:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17082-2004Nov1.html

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Casurf1978 0]

The most infamous terrorist of that era was Carlos Ramirez aka The Jackal. He was basically the OBL for two or three decades, and unlike OBL they caught him and put him away for the rest of his life. Something which I doubt will happen to OBL even with the $50M this admin wants to put on his head.

[storm1977 0]

Why do you say that?
It took 30yrs to get the Jackel... why won't we get OBL?

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[happythoughts 0]

There was a point at which money does not matter.

When national interest (lots of money) overrides the smaller value of having a person/group in their country, the country will turn them over.

The Palestinians were leaving Lebanon and offered money to Jordan for a place to settle. The Jordanians said no thanks.

The Syrians lost interest in Abu Nidal.
The Libyans decided to renounce terrorism.

Eventually, OBL will be found in a country. That country will decide that the risks outweigh the benefits and off he'll go.

[billvon 2,428]

>It's ironic that some people think America is evil for mistreating a few
>prisoners in Abu Gahrib . . .

We were wrong for torturing and raping people in Abu Ghraib.

> but those same people didn't utter so much as a squeek about Sadam
>Hussein . . .

Saddam Hussein was wrong for torturing and raping people in Abu Ghraib (and wrong about a lot of other things as well.)

>It's also ironic that they suddenly think that prisoners of war should be
> released before the war is over . ..

So you believe that they are prisoners of war as defined by the Geneva Conventions? Interesting.

[AdD 1]

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It's ironic that some people think America is evil for mistreating a few prisoners in Abu Gahrib, but those same people didn't utter so much as a squeek about Sadam Hussein running his entire population of 25 million people like a giant Abu Gahrib prison.

Ya, like the US government right up till Kuwait was invaded...

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[Casurf1978 0]

IMHO the played the right game to get him him. They didn't launch a conventional war to stop terrorism nor did they piss off nations that could help them with their fight against terrorist. There's a good book by John Follain called Jackal. It's really easy reading and Follain does a good job telling the Jackal's story.

[storm1977 0]

Well, do you think we pissed off nations in our persuit of OBL?

I don't think so, and if anything our relationship with key countries like Pakastan have become greater. I think you are confusing regime change in Iraq with our persuit of OBL. I think England, Fance, Germany, Russia, Pakastan and Saudi Arabia are all being helpful in the persuit of him.... am I wrong?

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[justinb138 0]

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It's ironic that some people think America is evil for mistreating a few prisoners in Abu Gahrib, but those same people didn't utter so much as a squeek about Sadam Hussein running his entire population of 25 million people like a giant Abu Gahrib prison.

Ya, like the US government right up till Kuwait was invaded...

And how many other countries did anything about it until then?

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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It's also ironic that they suddenly think that prisoners of war should be released before the war is over

JohnRich, I usually agree with you, but you slipped up here. They are not prisoners of war, they are either enemy combatants or unlawful combatants. In order to be considered prisoners of war, they would have to be uniformed soldiers. There are no rules for these types. In previous wars, they were fair game for whatever.

[happythoughts 0]

SH has a systematic program for torture. After reading about similar programs in Iran and other countries, it seems quite widespread in the Middle East.

I have a problem with people who equate the overall program of torture by SH to the actions of a few Americans at the prison.

First, sleep deprivation and lack of clothing do not compare to what SH did. The sodomy charges are deplorable, yes, but the rest of it is not comparable.

The most obvious thing is that under SH, it was widespread and accepted. The fact that there is an investigation and prosecutions shows that the Americans, in general, do not accept this behavior.

Everytime someone says "We" tortured those people, it associates all 120,000 US troop in Iraq with the actions of a handful. If I said, "All do something because ten did something", it would be reviled as a gross and unfair generalization.

[kelpdiver 2]

The Brits have long been doing the same in their battle in Northern Ireland.

I suspect the majority of nations do it, but not all do so openly. If you don't know a person is being held, hard to know how long it's been done.

[AdD 1]

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And how many other countries did anything about it until then?

Little known fact. The US could probably have prevented this invasion before it even took place.
***And in a diplomatic gaffe that has haunted U.S. policymakers ever since, Glaspie also laid down the U.S. position on Iraq's border dispute: "[We] have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." Coupled with an earlier statement from the U.S. State Department that the United States had "no special defense or security commitment to Kuwait," Hussein came away from the meeting believing he had the go-ahead to settle his disputes.

"April Glaspie met with Saddam Hussein in July and the invasion was on August 1," says Shahrough Akhavi, professor of international relations at USC. "She told him that when it comes to Arab-Arab conflicts, the U.S. has no position. And he took that as a green light."

Until the invasion, Akhavi says, relations between the United States and Iraq "were very friendly"***
http://www.free-times.com/archive/coverstorarch/iraq_032603/cover_blowback.html

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[kelpdiver 2]

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And how many other countries did anything about it until then?

Little known fact. The US could probably have prevented this invasion before it even took place.

Maybe. I have my doubts. It was a lot of money at stake and two very unequal parties in terms of strength.

[justinb138 0]

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Little known fact. The US could probably have prevented this invasion before it even took place.

So now you're saying that no other country in the world could have done anything to prevent it?

If the US had opposed the war then, instead of remaining neutral, do you really think Saddam would have not invaded kuwait?

[billvon 2,428]

>do you really think Saddam would have not invaded kuwait?

Of course he wouldn't have. Why would he piss off one of his strongest allies? If there was one thing Saddam was good at, it was playing the game and staying in power.