Shotgun 1 #1 January 27, 2005 Can anyone who has read this please explain it to me? One of my teachers mentioned it yesterday, so I tried looking it up... but my attention span is too short to read all the stuff about it (couldn't find anything clear and "to the point")... and my skeptical nature immediately cries BS... but I would like to understand a little more about it before completely dismissing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #2 January 27, 2005 It's been awhile, so forgive me if I miss a detail... but the premise is that there is a code embedded within the Old Testament. It's long been held by Bible scholars that there are hidden messages in the OT, locked until we can break it - effectively a time-lock until computers were invented since it couldn't be done prior to that application. I believe it was Newton (among other famous smart guys) who spent a great deal of time trying to figure it out without success... A journalist went to a mid-east mathematician who had written a computer program to crack the code and wrote about the findings. Basically, the guy took all the letters of the OT in the original language (Aramaic?) or closest thing to it, and strung tham togehter minus the spaces to see if anything significant emerged, which obviously it did. Predictions of future events, politicians, assassins, the holocaust, natural disasters, etc.... all came out in somewhat cryptic messages, easier to interpret after the fact, of couse. Other predictions about things to come, like the apocalypse, were all written in a non-deterministic way though, because they depend on our choices and are not set in stone. Something to the effect of "it can be changed" was part of the messaging. As a control, they put War and Peace throug the same program and got nothing back. Also, there was supposedly an ex-agency American guy who thought the whole was a scam, so he tried to write his own program to debunk the whole thing and ended up proving the mathematician right... Very interesting read... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #3 January 27, 2005 Quoteall came out in somewhat cryptic messages, easier to interpret after the fact Ah, so they were not exact predictions... cryptic messages open to interpretation... That says a lot. QuoteSomething to the effect of "it can be changed" was part of the messaging. Always a convenient message to include when you are claiming to predict the future. That way, if something doesn't match the prediction, it is because we did whatever needed to be done to change it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #4 January 27, 2005 The prophet Mellville predicts the future An interesting topic from the mathematical point of view, but that is all. Given enough data you can prove anything . The Skeptics Dictionary for additional links Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,167 #5 January 27, 2005 I'm beginning to think we have a new category now: There are lies, damn lies, statistics, and Bible codes Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #6 January 27, 2005 Searching for phrases using any number of random "patterns" isn't reasonable. That book is a lot of fluff, and is there to pray on people begging for doomsday predictions, rather than real science. Nostradamus anyone? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #7 January 27, 2005 Quote The prophet Mellville predicts the future An interesting topic from the mathematical point of view, but that is all. Given enough data you can prove anything . The Skeptics Dictionary for additional links That's interesting... My teacher seemed to actually believe this book... He also mentioned that he believes in God and that he doesn't believe in the Big Bang theory... his reason being that no one can explain where the stuff came from that caused the Big Bang... which is a legitimate argument... but, umm... Where did God come from??? I can see I'm going to be arguing with him a lot this semester... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravityizsexy 0 #8 January 27, 2005 GOD is... time was created... "'Someday is not a day in my week'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #9 January 27, 2005 QuoteGOD is... That doesn't explain anything. You can believe that "God is", but it still doesn't explain what God is or where it came from (though not being able to explain it doesn't necessarily mean that God does not exist). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #10 January 27, 2005 It amazes me no end, that people who perhaps hae never investigated or read the Bible Codes are the first to deny them. Similar to those who do not know the Bible, and deny it too. Similar to those who don't know God, and deny Him too They should all be lawyers, perhaps. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #11 January 27, 2005 I am interested in reading the book about the Bible Code... Perhaps I will when I have time. I have read the Bible in its entirety. I went to church at least once a week until I was 15 years old. I have never believed in God (especially in the way "he" is presented in the Bible), and the more I learn about it only goes to further my disbelief. But I mean no disrespect to your beliefs... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #12 January 27, 2005 No no, I find them all interesting reads. Something to take at face value? Absolutely not (for me). .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #13 January 27, 2005 QuoteThat doesn't explain anything. That's why it is called Faith.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #14 January 27, 2005 QuoteThat's why it is called Faith Yes I know... But when someone says they don't believe in the Big Bang theory because what came before it cannot be explained... it sounds kind of odd when they say that they do believe in God (when the origin of God cannot be explained either). I mean, if he believes in God and he believes that the Big Bang theory has been proven to a certain point... then wouldn't it make sense to believe that the Big Bang really did happen and was all a part of God's plan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #15 January 28, 2005 QuoteAh, so they were not exact predictions... cryptic messages open to interpretation... That says a lot. Actually there are a multiple predictions, including those of 9/11 that are quite specific. Names of world leaders are included, past and present. Interestingly enough, the journalist (who writes the book in first person) does not claim to be a Christian, yet his findings are quite remarkable. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #16 January 28, 2005 I would like to see the book. I'm not going to buy it though, so it'll have to wait until I run across a copy. When I first started looking for info on the web, I was bombarded with websites trying to sell me the book. I know I'm a skeptic, but when someone is making money off of some "amazing phenomenon", that brings up a red flag right away as to it's validity (not that it always means it's invalid). The link that dbattman provided about "Moby Dick" was pretty interesting... If the Bible Code was done in the same manner, then it seems (to me) to be purely random chance (but I'll hold off from forming a solid opinion on that until I actually see it). Quotethe journalist (who writes the book in first person) does not claim to be a Christian Does he say what his religious beliefs are? And has this discovery changed his beliefs in any way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #17 January 28, 2005 Thoroughly debunked BS. Has a lot of adamant followers though.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #18 February 17, 2005 QuoteIt amazes me no end, that people who perhaps hae never investigated or read the Bible Codes are the first to deny them. or it might be that those whose profession is pattern analysis recognize that if you predefine your pattern by the results you expect acheive you will find answers in the water stains under your refrigerator... but then the lord speaks in mysterious ways... even through the voices of dogs....if your willing to believe what they have to say... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #19 February 17, 2005 The Bible Code is a crock of shit. Here's why: The so-called "patterns" they found are words or sentences in the Bible created by finding letters a certain number of spaces apart (any number of spaces), backwards or forwards, without limitation on the number of spaces. In a book as large as the Bible, phrases can be found that span over hundreds of pages that supposedly mean something. The same crap can be found in Dicken's Great Expectations or any other other long book if someone actually wanted to look for it. Do any bit of studying on the Bible Code and you'll see it has been debunked many times over. These arguments are equivalent to the dumbasses claiming that the US never stepped on the moon and it's all some great conspiracy. For the record, the Bible Code has nothing to do with believing in God. Personally, I don't, but I understand how and why people do. The Bible Code is a bunch of bullshit somebody made up for publicity and money. It worked, cause there's a ton of idiots out there who will believe anything you tell them. Do any bit of research on it, and see for yourself. I know this for a fact; I studied cryptography a few years ago, and ran across the Bible Code. I was very interested in it, and I did study it quite a bit.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #20 February 17, 2005 Here's an example: Take this phrase: And hast not suffered me to kiss my sons and my daughters? thou hast now done foolishly in so doing. If you start at the R in "daughters," and skip over three letters to the O in "thou," and three more to the S in "hast," and so on, the hidden message "Roswell" is revealed. (see figure 1) They then take that sentence and arrange it in a matrix whatever way they can until they find something else that is close to what that was. in this case, they find three letters: U, F, and O. (see figure 2) Now to some people, this might look like the Bible predicted that UFOs would show up at Roswell, but the thing is in in a book as large as the Bible, any "hidden messages" can be found if you look hard enough for it.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #21 February 17, 2005 The big bang started out from a singularity like a black hole in reverse. Read, A brief history of time by Steven Hawking, he explains it much better than I ever could. Science is the way forward; humans need to stop living in the past, and stop following like sheep. Open your eyes, and you will see the truth! "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #22 February 17, 2005 Another thing that waves a bullshit flag on these things is the debunk standard: "post-predicting". The prediction made after the "predicted" event. This fallacy isn't really prediction. A precise statement easily can be assigned back to a previously stated vague one(which is what really is happening on the said "predictions" intentionally or accidently.) I'm hazarding a guess as I have never read the book, but this is the standard mode of operation on all previoulsy written Nostrodamus-esque books._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #23 February 17, 2005 Quote Similar to those who do not know the Bible, and deny it too. Similar to those who don't know God, and deny Him too Bill Cole These people are called enlightened I believe. I don't need to know the tooth fairy, sasquatch, or Santa either to know superstitous horseshit when I see it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #24 February 18, 2005 QuoteCan anyone who has read this please explain it to me? One of my teachers mentioned it yesterday, so I tried looking it up... but my attention span is too short to read all the stuff about it (couldn't find anything clear and "to the point")... and my skeptical nature immediately cries BS... but I would like to understand a little more about it before completely dismissing it. Interesting read, but its all bunk im affraid. Essentially the way that the code works is the author takes all the words in the bible, removes all spaces between the words and punctuation, then using a computer he looks at every (*)th word. He then strings these words together to try and find some connection to events that have already happened, called retro-fitting. Using this code you can find hidden messages in any book, Drosnin's critics claimed, in which he retorted " when my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby Dick, I'll believe them." One of his critics, Brendan McKay took up the challenge to find that message and not only did he find it, a reference to Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, she also found messages about other assassinations of; President Rene Moawad, Leon Trotsky, Martin Luther King, the assassin Sirhan Sirhan, John F. Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln and the list goes on. But David E. Thomas dealt the final death blow came when he found the saying "The code is bogus" 60 times in the book of Genesis. What was the reason behind this book? Well in my opinion if Drosnin really did find the hidden code put their by god or some extra terrestrial he should have made it known to the world for free, but instead he wrote a book and charged people for it. This goes to show you what kind of person he is, in my opinion, and I lump him in with all the other con artists who are trying to make a buck selling their pseudoscience wares to the gullible of our society. What really caught my attention is how quickly the christian groups soaked all this crap up, I guess it is just one more desperate attempt to prove to the world that they are right and the rest of us are all going to hell. http://math.caltech.edu/code/petition.html----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #25 February 18, 2005 QuoteGOD is... time was created... God is .... an imaginary friend for grown ups...... ----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
