jcd11235 0 #51 January 11, 2005 Quote . . . and once again we will find ourselves supporting terrorism. [sarcasm]But its to end terrorism. Doesn't that make it better?[/sarcasm]Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #52 January 11, 2005 Quote I agree to an extent. Problem is these countries are providing safe havens to the insurgents... What do they expext the Iraqi's and coalition to do? Turn and ignore it? Let's not forget how well these tactics worked in Cambodia and Laos.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #53 January 11, 2005 QuoteYou guys? The ONLY person that can accept responsibility for the creation and sickness of OBL is OBL himself. He is a self made man and a menace to decent human life. Didn't you know he is one of our CIA's finest creations? ":NEW YORK, Aug. 24, 1998 — At the CIA, it happens often enough to have a code name: Blowback. Simply defined, this is the term that describes an agent, an operative or an operation that has turned on its creators. Osama bin Laden, our new public enemy Number 1, is the personification of blowback. And the fact that he is viewed as a hero by millions in the Islamic world proves again the old adage: Reap what you sow." http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1 or " Born in Saudi Arabia to a Yemeni family, Bin Laden left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Afghan jihad was backed with American dollars and had the blessing of the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. He received security training from the CIA itself, according to Middle Eastern analyst Hazhir Teimourian." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/155236.stm or Well, you get the idea. There's a ton of credible sites that all say he was one of ours.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #54 January 11, 2005 QuoteThat isn't an option. 3,000 people weren't playing in the World Trade Centers. Now they are dead. That is what not playing gets you. I can hardly believe our post WWII foreign policy can be referred to as "not playing."Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #55 January 11, 2005 QuoteQuote I agree to an extent. Problem is these countries are providing safe havens to the insurgents... What do they expext the Iraqi's and coalition to do? Turn and ignore it? Let's not forget how well these tactics worked in Cambodia and Laos. Not sure who's tactics your refering to. The NVA did use laos and cambodia as a supply route/storage area which was a sucess. But the US also used to fly covert missions to stop the flow of troops and materials over this route. Part of these missions were called Blind bat. The air crews that flew these missions were sworn to secrecy for 20 yr's (long gone). The US wasn't sucessful due to the US politicans start stop policy and the NVA had a unlimited source of soldiers that they were willing to lose plus laborers to rebuild the road after it was destroyed. Our politicians delined the oppurtunity to stop the flow of supplies at its source by bombing the NVA ports in North vietnam. Also not sure of your use of the term S.F. do you mean special ops (which includes the S.F.) different S.O. organizations have different missions. With the use of contractor's (MERC's) in Iraq who knows who's doing what? IN VN The US had a special group of small 1-2 men that would go behind enemy lines to take out high value targets in the chain of command that was war. The crap that happened in El salvador was If we we had our hand in that shame on us. R.i.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #56 January 11, 2005 QuoteWhat really amazes me is that the US imposes so many rules aginst itself in order to try and keep the world happy that it makes it more difficult to get to the root of the problem. I still cannot believe that educated people in todays society cannot for an instance imagine that other countries(or their own for the non US crowd here) governments routinely engage in some of the practices that many here are upset about.The US (and a few others) really is the only one trying to play by the "rules". Everyone else says they support the rules but in actuality, they don't even attempt to follow them. Try playing a game where only one side follows the rules. If the USA had been playing by the "rules" it would not be in Iraq now. period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #57 January 11, 2005 If you want to beat terror, use the same rules terrorist use (very few) otherwise you ask your troops to fight with one hand tied behind their back. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #58 January 11, 2005 There are real problems with the sort of operations that are envisaged. While I have little doubt that "Anti-Insurgency Terrorism" is well within the abilities of the coalition special forces, I question the wisdom of conducting such operations: 1. It forces the coalition to make what may be best described as "Strange Friends". OBL was befriended & trained in Afghanistan by American/Western Special Forces & intelligence communities. Look at how that dog turned & bit the hand that fed it! 2. "Black" operations have a nasty habit of turning "Grey" over time. There are already more than enough disaffected people in the area - People who are willing to be suicide bombers - without increasing anti west sentiments & providing extremists with an increased supply of what amounts to very sophisticated "guidance packages" for their otherwise crude weapons. Tempting though it may be to play a terrorists own game against him, it's impossible. The vast majority of Iraqis don't like what these folk are doing, but won't speak out of family / clan / village loyalty. Coalition forces enjoy no such loyalty. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #59 January 11, 2005 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The rest of the world would bash the U.S. for the death and torture of innocent people if found out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BULLSHIT. The rest of the world isn't bashing the insurgents for killing innocent people in Iraq? Pleaaaassseee...... The rest of the world is already jumping the US's ass over prisoner abuse. If the US really acted like a terrorist it would be a media field day for the rest of the world. And SOME countries are basing the insurgents for the tactics they use....However it is expected from them, so we hear more about the US's fuckups than anything else since eveyone expects more from the US. We try to play by the rules, they don't care."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #60 January 11, 2005 QuoteThe rest of the world is already jumping the US's ass over prisoner abuse. What abuse? Lest I knew a terrorist didn't have any rights? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #61 January 11, 2005 QuoteLet's not forget how well these tactics worked in Cambodia and Laos. Covert interdiction, by various means, was very successful in Cambodia and Laos... the problem was it was not allowed to continue for political reasons. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #62 January 11, 2005 Quote What abuse? Lest I knew a terrorist didn't have any rights? http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/10/prisoner.abuse.graner.ap/index.html Gitmo...ect."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #63 January 11, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe rest of the world is already jumping the US's ass over prisoner abuse. What abuse? Lest I knew a terrorist didn't have any rights? There you are, giving a good example why it is unwise to start "playing" in the "grey" area. Hundreds have been held in Gitmo for now 3 years without any rights and not one has been convicted or been put in front of this "tribunal". Only a handful have been mentioned to be in the process of been put on trial (but nothing is happening) with the biggest fish said to be OBL's driver. Today a number of prisoners have been nominated to be released without charge - among them 4 Brits and one Australian. Some of those were picked up in Pakistan - not on the battlefield. Gitmo seems more and more to be an embarrassment if you think the US should follow due process. Seems many of those held got "caught up" and - well "bad luck - have been held in cages for 3 years. Wonder if China would do that to any Americans what the reaction would be. Seems very clear that far from all in Gitmo are terrorists. I think ist is sad that the US so proud of its "freedom" is behaving like a rogue State. So leaving the path of playing by the rules - rules being the rule of law, due process and respect for human rights and international law - will not win you the war on terror. It will only result in more terrorists and the loss of moral superiority.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #64 January 11, 2005 Quote( I just sat here thinking about this post and the futility of it ,before I hit the post button. I don't care to argue this point or the politics involved with it as it isn't going to change some peoples minds no matter what "proof" or points I make. However, in hopes that some people or at least 1 person out there might happen to "get it" I decided against deleting it and moving on to the reason I like this site.....SKYDIVING) For one, I am happy that you decided to hit the post button, since you provide a viewpoint that not many others can offer. Allows for some to get a broader view on the subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #65 January 12, 2005 QuoteIf you want to beat terror, use the same rules terrorist use (very few) otherwise you ask your troops to fight with one hand tied behind their back. Really? Where do you get that idea from? Give me some examples from recent history where that tactic has worked? How about I kick off with an example that contradicts your statement: Northern Ireland. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #66 January 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you want to beat terror, use the same rules terrorist use (very few) otherwise you ask your troops to fight with one hand tied behind their back. Really? Where do you get that idea from? Give me some examples from recent history where that tactic has worked? How about I kick off with an example that contradicts your statement: Northern Ireland. Ask any soldier that fought in Falluga last month .... Boobytrapping bodies, waving white flags and abushing US personel when they got close .... wearing civilian clothes.... the list goes on my friend. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,433 #67 January 12, 2005 >>>If you want to beat terror, use the same rules terrorist use. >>Really? Where do you get that idea from? Give me some examples >>from recent history where that tactic has worked? >Ask any soldier that fought in Falluga last month .... Boobytrapping bodies . . . So the terrorist are fighting 'terror' (i.e. US troops) by using unconventional techniques? I didn't expect you to label US troops terrorists; did you misspeak or have you really had a change of heart? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #68 January 12, 2005 QuoteAsk any soldier that fought in Falluga last month .... Boobytrapping bodies, waving white flags and abushing US personel when they got close .... wearing civilian clothes.... the list goes on my friend. I don't see how you've come to the conclusion that 'terror was beat'. Yeah, some of the insurgents died there, but even your own military admits that most of them had fucked off somewhere else before the operation even started. So what else did the attack on Falluja achieve? Well it made yet more liberated Iraqis homeless. And some more liberated Iraqis dead. It made another Iraqi city uninhabitable. And it resulted in the death and injury of yet more young Americans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #69 January 13, 2005 Quote>>>If you want to beat terror, use the same rules terrorist use. >>Really? Where do you get that idea from? Give me some examples >>from recent history where that tactic has worked? >Ask any soldier that fought in Falluga last month .... Boobytrapping bodies . . . So the terrorist are fighting 'terror' (i.e. US troops) by using unconventional techniques? I didn't expect you to label US troops terrorists; did you misspeak or have you really had a change of heart? No,, I didn't mispeak. First example is the US solier who was on vidio killing an unamed wounded man. (IMO he had to do that) that had been going on a good deal due to the tachtics of the enemy. 2 marines on with Dennis Miller last month talking about a new stratigy used in Falluga where marines dressed in civilian clothing and make up are/were being used to infiltrate, gather intel, and kill enemy fighters with the city. These were not 2 monday morning quarterbacks. These 2 guys spent a year in Afganistan and almost a year in Iraq. THey were on the show have only been back for 2 weeks. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
