EBSB52 0
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Lindsey 0
I live in one, and it happens. It's easy. Even here, the common knowledge is that you must be fired. It's not so. There are very simple ways around that. The problem is not just with unemployment, though. With most parts of the dole, people can work the system so that they come out much better than was intended. The rest of us pay. It sounds good to think that by putting money in, we're getting money back and blah, blah, blah.... I believe that to think so is to be overly optimistic about human nature.
QuoteQuoteThe fact is that with a pretty good income a person can quit his job and draw unemployment for a year to get retrained.
I've never lived in a state where one could quit a job on order to go back to school, and draw unemployment benefits. Every state I've lived in required you to be fired, or other not so easy to qualify for criteria before you are eligible for benefits. And if you are eligible, you have to be available to work 24/7. And they don't pay anywhere near 100% of your lost wages.QuoteThe amount of income doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. I don't consider it good use of MY money.
The money they take from the system is paid back into the system, and then some, with the extra tax money collected after a better job is obtained. Everybody comes out ahead. How is that not a good use for your tax money?
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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
jcd11235 0
QuoteI live in one, and it happens. It's easy. Even here, the common knowledge is that you must be fired. It's not so. There are very simple ways around that. The problem is not just with unemployment, though. With most parts of the dole, people can work the system so that they come out much better than was intended. The rest of us pay. It sounds good to think that by putting money in, we're getting money back and blah, blah, blah.... I believe that to think so is to be overly optimistic about human nature.
Remember that a more general system of assistance would have fewer loop holes to take advantage of. Also bear in mind that you have to look at the effects of such a system over several decades compared to the current status quo, and the past several decades. It is better to help people out of poverty with education, not a lifetime on the dole. Giving people just enough so that they will survive allows them to do little more than that. An education, on the other hand, gives hope and promise of a productive life. I truly believe that the vast majority of people enjoy feeling productive, and having a sense of accomplishment. People don't live on the dole because they want to.
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Lindsey 0
QuotePeople don't live on the dole because they want to.
Many do.
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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
jcd11235 0
QuoteMany do.
They are the exceptions, not the rule. It would be foolish to plan tax use around those people, as it would not be cost effective. There are many possible solutions to reduce such sponge effect without decreasing benefits to those who need them.
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billvon 2,400
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> Conservatives are not "trying to define marriage".
Conservatives are in favor of an amendment that would destroy thousands of legal gay marriages already performed in the US by redefining it as between two heterosexuals only.
>. . . trying to promote acceptance of homosexual marriage by shoving
>a new definition of the word down the throats of society.
Indeed. Interracial marriage was shoved down your throat (or your parent's throats) by activist judges in clear contradiction to the will of the majority of the people of the US. We seemed to survive as a society; I think most people think in retrospect that it was a good thing they did that.
Conservatives are in favor of an amendment that would destroy thousands of legal gay marriages already performed in the US by redefining it as between two heterosexuals only.
>. . . trying to promote acceptance of homosexual marriage by shoving
>a new definition of the word down the throats of society.
Indeed. Interracial marriage was shoved down your throat (or your parent's throats) by activist judges in clear contradiction to the will of the majority of the people of the US. We seemed to survive as a society; I think most people think in retrospect that it was a good thing they did that.
billvon 2,400
>Ask a Kennedy how many hybrids they own, and how often they fly
>on private jets. Your party does not represent you.
You are confusing my philosophy and my party affiliation. I am not a democrat.
>on private jets. Your party does not represent you.
You are confusing my philosophy and my party affiliation. I am not a democrat.
QuoteThe amount of income doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. I don't consider it good use of MY money.
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The money they take from the system is paid back into the system, and then some, with the extra tax money collected after a better job is obtained. Everybody comes out ahead. How is that not a good use for your tax money?
because you are asking me joe taxpayer to foot the bill. When the student left (A) a job (B) Has the ability to work. If YOU want to improve your life have at it. Just don't expect ME to support YOU. Go to night school, join the service or get some on the job training. You have to learn to sacrifice if you want to something, not just have it handed to you
mnealtx 0
You mean the world doesn't OWE them a living???? How preposterous!! 
Agreed - welfare is out of control in it's current incarnation.
In responce to the post that said (paraphrased) "People that work the (welfare) system are a minority" - that has not been my experience in either the Dallas area or the San Antonio area. I knew of plenty of families that had 2 or sometimes 3 generations on welfare, and many of them had a better standard of living than my family, with both parents working!
Agreed - welfare is out of control in it's current incarnation.
In responce to the post that said (paraphrased) "People that work the (welfare) system are a minority" - that has not been my experience in either the Dallas area or the San Antonio area. I knew of plenty of families that had 2 or sometimes 3 generations on welfare, and many of them had a better standard of living than my family, with both parents working!
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quote
I all fairness to one line of your post.......Unions are destroying the Unions. I was in one for 15 years and I am dam glad to be out
There's some truth to that statement.
The extreme working conditions and exploitation that gave rise to unions has been dramatically improved. Largely due to unions.
There are definitely drawbacks to unions, and the cost/benefit analysis isn't as crystal clear as it once was.
Eliminate all unions and get back to me in ten years.
A whole lot of people will miss them far more than they can presently imagine.
-Josh
If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.
rushmc 18
You are right in the fact that I did generalize. Sorry
I can only speak for few I know of. But in those cases I know of, the Union leadership worked to keep dead beats and thieves employed because they had time......after they had been fired for all the right reasons including safety violations (for the ##th time).
Until such time that those unions work to keep good members and say good bye to the bums they are destroying themselves.
I can only speak for few I know of. But in those cases I know of, the Union leadership worked to keep dead beats and thieves employed because they had time......after they had been fired for all the right reasons including safety violations (for the ##th time). Until such time that those unions work to keep good members and say good bye to the bums they are destroying themselves.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Quote
B=
Present Day Liberalism: modern; argues for government regulation and partial intervention in economy; society has a responsibility to guarantee equal opportunity for each of its citizens; international institutions, such as the United Nations, are an implicit part of creating world peace and order; financial aid to poorer citizens.
What you describe here has more to do with socialism than liberalism. Pure liberalism does not agree with government intervention in economy and forcing people to pay tax for social financial aid. This social aid will be financed with money people volunterely donate. Also the government shall not interfere in free-trade between people.
I know pure liberalism can hardly be found in this world. In the US if you are liberal you are a lefty. In europe you are considered right wing.
Liberalism in neither left or right. It considers people as inteligent beings capable of taking their own decisions, but if you take a decision and it goes wrong only blame yourself!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig
QuoteLiberalism in neither left or right. It considers people as inteligent beings capable of taking their own decisions, but if you take a decision and it goes wrong only blame yourself!
Then if you consider yourself a Liberal, you identify with option A in the poll, yes?
_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.
jcd11235 0
Quotebecause you are asking me joe taxpayer to foot the bill. When the student left (A) a job (B) Has the ability to work. If YOU want to improve your life have at it. Just don't expect ME to support YOU. Go to night school, join the service or get some on the job training. You have to learn to sacrifice if you want to something, not just have it handed to you
You seem to be under the impression that these are always options. I know better than to make such assumptions. An investment in bettering oneself, in furthering their education is a good investment. You argue as though this person would be getting something for nothing. That is not the case. They pay for their education, they just do it after they get it and are reaping the benefits, and putting lots more money back into the economy.
There are no quick fixes, and to ignore the problem does not motivate it to go away, as much as some people would like that to be true.
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!
Unions get greedy. When they do, they put themselves out of fair contention for work, and lose jobs. Simple really.
And corporate America is perpetually greedy, so who is here to protect the US worker, especially when our Commander in Chimp is busy revoking/rewriting 66 year old worker protection laws? Even a corrupt union is better than letting the working man fight alone.
The nice thing is to have a balance between corporate power and union power. When that happens, everybody wins. When one or the other of the two gets too much power, everyone loses.
Agreed, so to revoke/disempower unions is to upset that balance.
The same could be said of our whole two party "democratic" political system, and most of the major issues that are split between them. It's a beautiful thing -- maybe the Middle East will get to experience it one day.
You must be talking about the utopian True Democracy, not this US representative Democracy thing we have - worlds difference. Many modern-day Monarchies have more direct elective power than do we have.
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