kallend 1,679 #26 September 8, 2004 QuoteThat wouldn't be the SAME deficit that's been in place and rising ever since, oh, the 1950's, would it? The one that's gone up under EVERY President for the last 50 years (or so)? That one? Umm... NO It went down, disappeared, and became a surplus under Clinton. How soon you forget. In fact it usually goes down under Democratic presidents and up under Republicans.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #27 September 8, 2004 QuoteBush could not have been awol because people covered for him back then and today. In the same circumstances, you or I might have been charged awol and then ordered to active duty. Remember, back then it was not who you blow; it was who has the money and connections. It's sad we have to choose between these two scumbags. My scumbag is better than your scumbag continues. No, I am on active duty and it's why I can be charged with AWOL. Bush's status (at the time that he missed drills) was not such that he could be charged. Now it's up to his commander and the unit situation to determine and take action to revoke his status and put him on active duty if he felt Bush wasn't living up to his guard contract. His commander didn't, which probably meant that there was either an agreement that it was okay (between the CC and one or more of the pilots), to the commander simply had a climate of show or don't show, I don't care. Either way, it isn't AWOL. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #28 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteGo to your nearest military base and speak to the Legal Affairs office about having George Bush arrested for violations of the UCMJ After all, if he was truly AWOL, they'd love to hear from you, right? Nope - just like the US Attorney will laugh you out of his office if you try to bring up Kerry's address to Congress. Well, the Attorney General may not care, but an investigative arm of the Navy is looking into Kerry's medals and possible fraud.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #29 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteGo to your nearest military base and speak to the Legal Affairs office about having George Bush arrested for violations of the UCMJ After all, if he was truly AWOL, they'd love to hear from you, right? Nope - just like the US Attorney will laugh you out of his office if you try to bring up Kerry's address to Congress. Well, the Attorney General may not care, but an investigative arm of the Navy is looking into Kerry's medals and possible fraud. Did you know the DoD just turned up more of Bush's service records, after the White House had declared over and over that there were no more? Seems "W" missed out on some obligations in Massachusetts as well as in Alabama, and was given a pass on account of family connections. Also his story about missing flight training on account of the planes being obsolete wasn't true either - his unit flew them until 1974.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #30 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGo to your nearest military base and speak to the Legal Affairs office about having George Bush arrested for violations of the UCMJ After all, if he was truly AWOL, they'd love to hear from you, right? Nope - just like the US Attorney will laugh you out of his office if you try to bring up Kerry's address to Congress. Well, the Attorney General may not care, but an investigative arm of the Navy is looking into Kerry's medals and possible fraud. Did you know the DoD just turned up more of Bush's service records, after the White House had declared over and over that there were no more? Seems "W" missed out on some obligations in Massachusetts as well as in Alabama, and was given a pass on account of family connections. Also his story about missing flight training on account of the planes being obsolete wasn't true either - his unit flew them until 1974. And back to the future, your candidate IS missing his duties as senator. Not slightly, grossly. He at least should have the decency if he is only going to work 20% of his PAID time."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #31 September 9, 2004 Let the Brothers Go . . . John Kerry was an involved member of his generation. During that same era I joined the Marine Corps at 17 years of age. I joined for the same reason Kerry did. It was just something you did. It was country, duty, honor, it was the American way . . . Four years later I'm handing out antiwar literature outside the gates of a Marine Corps Air Station. I was spit on and beat up. So what happened to me? At 21 I came to realize that war was wrong, that killing was wrong, that the military industrial complex was more interested in making money and letting the poor boys die for their bank accounts. And it's not just that war, but all wars that are wrong. Many in my generation got drafted or joined only to learn a thing or two about truth. If you are not of the Vietnam generation than you only know what you are being spoon-fed. And you sound like it. John Kerry simply did the same thing many of us did. He didn't "flip flop." He learned . . . I do understand that if you are 30 or younger, the lessons of Vietnam are like something from a million years ago. But I appeal to your sense of how much better we can be. We can heal, instead of kill. We can lead, instead of react. We can be that beacon of light that carried us throughout the 19th century. We are all in the same boat, the S.S. Earth, and we all have the same problems and wants. We want to raise our families in peace. We want to move forward in a way that doesn't make my lifestyle dependant on taking away from someone else's. But, when you defend shopping at corporate Wal-Mart, YOU are the terrorist and YOU are killing the planet. War is human kind's biggest failure. Do I know how to stop the Ganjaweeds slaughter of thousands of African woman and children, do I know why Chechen's think killing children will get there point across? No, but I do know if we came together as a planet full of concerned people we could probably stop those things. The United States has become a big bear that doesn't realize the footprint it makes in the world. We are only interested in protecting our own way of life. You can't continue to claim we are the best country in the world simply because you have a car, a job, and a small amount of freedom, and it especially sounds hallow from those of you that didn't fight, or even serve, for it. I can't believe we have become as stupid as we are. Please, instead of being so jingoistic, instead of just waving the flag, go down to your local VA hospital, volunteer, and listen and talk to the guys that came before you. If you are getting your information from corporate America you are being misinformed. The powers that be think you are idiots, to be lead around by the noses, and maybe they are right. After all it's you, the younger generation, that was so quick to swallow the Patriot Act, the lie that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, body fluid checks, red light cameras, and the list goes on. Freedom seems to be an abstract idea that really means nothing to you. I'm going BASE jumping tonight. And if a policeman catches me and demands to know what I'm doing I'm going to tell him to go fuck himself (or herself) and that I'm a living breathing human being with no limits. In a few hours I could be in a cell saying, "Hey, are you going to eat that apple?" And that's just fine . . . Freedom is the only thing worth fighting for. And that war is here right now, and right on our own doorsteps. And it's not some enemy thousands of miles away, they are right here in Washington, DC, the same place they have always been. Nick BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #32 September 9, 2004 Nick, pretty insightful, and thanks for sharing."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #33 September 9, 2004 I appreciate your post, and happen to agree with you on several points. However, I have to ask you: When you came home, and were passing out literature, were you talking about why "war is bad," or were you going on about why "wars is bad, vets are criminals, and the militaryis evil?" I respect people who can voice their opinions, people who base their thoughts on experience, and people who want to help others. All of that said, I have no respect whatsoever for John Kerry. ps - I'm not jingoistic, I'm patriotic. There is a line, and I do not cross it.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #34 September 9, 2004 Once again, a brilliant post by NDG! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #35 September 9, 2004 I know it's hard to understand. (Not your fault, you had to be there). Even Jane Fonda thought she was doing the right thing, and that's the best you can ask of people . . . no matter what happens later, the worst are the people who just go along. I don't agree with the distinctions between "legal" war and the atrocities that Kerry alluded too. All war is an atrocity. Killing people is just flat wrong. When Kerry came back from Vietnam the last thing he heard from his shipmates was, "John, get us the hell out of here." And he did that to the best of his ability. Nick BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #36 September 9, 2004 QuoteI don't agree with the distinctions between "legal" war and the atrocities that Kerry alluded too. He didn't allude to anything. he accused all vets of doing unspeakable things. War is fought by soldiers. Atrocities are committed by zealots and the scum of the earth. QuoteWhen Kerry came back from Vietnam the last thing he heard from his shipmates was, "John, get us the hell out of here." And he did that to the best of his ability. The impression I get is that he heard "John, get the hell out of here," but he edited it just a teensy bit. Kidding aside, I can't agree with you. Was the US wrong to declare war on Japan in 1941? It's like saying all killing is wrong. While that makes a good sound byte, the truth is that it's wrong. Killing to defend yourself is not wrong. Same thing on a bigger scale.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #37 September 9, 2004 I can only conclude from your reply that you were not around during the Vietnam War.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #38 September 9, 2004 Yeah, like you didn't know that before reading the post. Care to comment on anything actaully stated in teh posts, or are you going to stick with ad hominem statements?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #39 September 9, 2004 QuoteYeah, like you didn't know that before reading the post. Care to comment on anything actaully stated in teh posts, or are you going to stick with ad hominem statements? In that case I suggest you pay attention to Nick's wisdom, because he shows more than you do. The Vietnam war was a national tragedy and a national disgrace. 100% of the blame for it lies with the Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon administrations, and not with the poor sods who were sent over there to do an impossible job.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #40 September 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteThat wouldn't be the SAME deficit that's been in place and rising ever since, oh, the 1950's, would it? The one that's gone up under EVERY President for the last 50 years (or so)? That one? Umm... NO It went down, disappeared, and became a surplus under Clinton. How soon you forget. In fact it usually goes down under Democratic presidents and up under Republicans. Wow, really? Maybe you should be running the Treasury Department, then...since they're obviously wrong.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #41 September 9, 2004 QuoteI can only conclude from your reply that you were not around during the Vietnam War. So, perhaps no one ought to comment on any historical events unless they were physically present during them? That's it everyone, no more discussions of history!-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #42 September 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteThat wouldn't be the SAME deficit that's been in place and rising ever since, oh, the 1950's, would it? The one that's gone up under EVERY President for the last 50 years (or so)? That one? Umm... NO It went down, disappeared, and became a surplus under Clinton. How soon you forget. In fact it usually goes down under Democratic presidents and up under Republicans. Wow, really? Maybe you should be running the Treasury Department, then...since they're obviously wrong. Incorrect.. You have confused the deficit with the debt. Maybe that's Bush's problem too - confusion.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #43 September 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThat wouldn't be the SAME deficit that's been in place and rising ever since, oh, the 1950's, would it? The one that's gone up under EVERY President for the last 50 years (or so)? That one? Umm... NO It went down, disappeared, and became a surplus under Clinton. How soon you forget. In fact it usually goes down under Democratic presidents and up under Republicans. Wow, really? Maybe you should be running the Treasury Department, then...since they're obviously wrong. Incorrect.. You have confused the deficit with the debt. Maybe that's Bush's problem too - confusion. From here. Similar definition here. National Deficit The sum of all previously incurred annual federal deficits. Since the deficits are financed by government borrowing, national debt is equal to all government debt outstanding. Also called National Debt.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 September 9, 2004 When John said "Umm... NO It went down, disappeared, and became a surplus under Clinton. How soon you forget. In fact it usually goes down under Democratic presidents and up under Republicans. " He was referring to the annual deficit. Not the sum total of national deficit spending. The increase of the debt even while running a budget surplus is due to the compounding of interest. That makes up 17% of federal taxes that you pay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mardigrasbob 0 #45 September 9, 2004 I'll say it again. Kerry was not a just a war protestor. He was a traitorous radical. He didn't just protest; he was active in trying to bring down our form of government. There are reports of him heading a meeting of an organization, where plans were made to assassinate members of congress. He may have changed his views over the years but that doesn't change what happened back then www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_kan_plot1.htm ---------. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #46 September 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteI can only conclude from your reply that you were not around during the Vietnam War. So, perhaps no one ought to comment on any historical events unless they were physically present during them? That's it everyone, no more discussions of history! Right no more discussions of [Deleted by Kallend] because in the year [ditto] someone did something that was similar and disagreed with his opinion.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #47 September 9, 2004 Nick, once again thanks for your post, and sincere eloquence used to write it. I agree with many things you said, however, although war is an horror, then the solution would be to abolish all armies in the world, not such a feasible goal. War is part of human history, since the first men on earth appeared.(By the way it is not a boat, it's a ship, SS Earth). Nevetheless, I do firmly believe that we are facing a very different type of enemy and actual risk, in comparisson to Vietnam, one that is looking to impose Radical Islam as ruler of the world, and exterminate you if you are not. It is not only US that is in peril, and they are more than willing to use WMD as soon as it gets in their hands, just a matter of time. Most of us know about Vietnam, not from personal experience, the hell it was for all those involved,and know the unfair treatment you guys received when got back, worst of all, some of you were drafted, against your free will. (I'm glad today, your service, regardless the futility of that conflict, has been more appreciated, and respected.) You should be aware the changes transformed what we have today, all of the US forces are strictly volunteer, and believe that our (and every nation's)freedom has been paid with blood, and unfortunately, will need more blood. We are losing valuable time, as I don't see people getting together to find a common ground, all we want to do is to point a finger and accuse the other as the reason things are bad. All the nations should gather, talk and DO something about it. Otherwise will be business as usual, everyone looking for their interest-way of life protected. As things currently stand, I'll stick the the latter, because they are simply against anything non muslim and willing to kill anyone to prove it. The UN has failed, and has become an ineffective organization, when conflicts, or shadows of conflicts are evident, best proof of that, is the constant intervention of NATO as international coalition, before the UN. I wish the issue would be easier, for all, and instead of worrying to go or to protest war, would actually do something to prevent these psycos destroying more lives. I see a war of civilizations brewing in the horizon. And no one has been immune from selfish motives, as well as good deeds. Be safe and blue ones."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #48 September 9, 2004 QuoteNick, once again thanks for your post, and sincere eloquence used to write it. I agree with many things you said, however, although war is an horror, then the solution would be to abolish all armies in the world, not such a feasible goal. War is part of human history, since the first men on earth appeared.(By the way it is not a boat, it's a ship, SS Earth). Nevetheless, I do firmly believe that we are facing a very different type of enemy and actual risk, in comparisson to Vietnam, one that is looking to impose Radical Islam as ruler of the world, and exterminate you if you are not. It is not only US that is in peril, and they are more than willing to use WMD as soon as it gets in their hands, just a matter of time. Most of us know about Vietnam, not from personal experience, the hell it was for all those involved,and know the unfair treatment you guys received when got back, worst of all, some of you were drafted, against your free will. (I'm glad today, your service, regardless the futility of that conflict, has been more appreciated, and respected.) You should be aware the changes transformed what we have today, all of the US forces are strictly volunteer, and believe that our (and every nation's)freedom has been paid with blood, and unfortunately, will need more blood. We are losing valuable time, as I don't see people getting together to find a common ground, all we want to do is to point a finger and accuse the other as the reason things are bad. All the nations should gather, talk and DO something about it. Otherwise will be business as usual, everyone looking for their interest-way of life protected. As things currently stand, I'll stick the the latter, because they are simply against anything non muslim and willing to kill anyone to prove it. The UN has failed, and has become an ineffective organization, when conflicts, or shadows of conflicts are evident, best proof of that, is the constant intervention of NATO as international coalition, before the UN. I wish the issue would be easier, for all, and instead of worrying to go or to protest war, would actually do something to prevent these psycos destroying more lives. I see a war of civilizations brewing in the horizon. And no one has been immune from selfish motives, as well as good deeds. Be safe and blue ones With tears in my eyes, with hanging shoulders I've got to leave this place, deeply trembled. Going to next paper shop and looking for the new issue of "Fairy Tales".. as I have an appointment with my hairdresser. There must be something wrong with my new glasses. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
