skybytch 259 #1 January 8, 2002 Okay, so I'm sure most of you have by now heard about the 15 year old who flew an airplane into a building this weekend. Here's something I don't understand. He had two parents who obviously have a decent income (paying for his flight training) and who obviously gave a shit about their kid (trying to give him something cool to make up for whatever problems he was having), and for whatever reasons he did that. My kid has been raised by a skydiver single mom who's never made more than $30k in a year and spent a lot of that income on dope and jumps. He's an awesome person - a student leader, a member of the school's peer counseling team, he doesn't smoke or do any type of drugs, he's polite, doesn't get into fights, isn't in a gang... other than the fact that he isn't a straight A student he's basically the kind of kid any parent would be incredibly proud of. I don't get it! A kid with every advantage is so messed up that he'd admire Osama Bin Laden and try to emulate those losers who flew the jets into the WTC, and on the other hand we have a kid who according to what society says should be totally messed up is a fine young man who is admired by more people than just his mother and grandparents. Can anyone explain this to me???pull and flare,lisa--life's a bitch.. and so am I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #2 January 8, 2002 Nope....havent heard about that......any links to the story?Seriously.....he did this as a receation of the WTC event??jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #3 January 8, 2002 Never mind...found the story.....jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 January 8, 2002 Hey, no matter what advantages/disadvantages someone has, it all comes down to how close a child is to their parents. Especially during those years (12-18 or so) because of all the different emotions involved. Atleast for myself and from what I've read, those are tough years emotionally. So give your kid a hug, ya know? Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harro 0 #5 January 8, 2002 There is no explaining this!!People are people and no matter what upbringing they have they will still do stoopid things. We all had a problems when we were kids but we may have had an outlet to vent.Sound like this poor kid didnt!Freemind, freesky, freebeer, freefly, freesex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #6 January 8, 2002 Well, an undiagnosed mental illness could certainly play a part in this ... certainly the kid had some issues -- but there are lots of fucked up kids out there, like the ones who killed their classmates in Denver, or the ones in my town who killed a 14 year old classmate (girls killing girls). Money doesn't mean shit. Love has lots to do with it, but in the long run, it's a roll of the dice. Ya never know who is gonna be the next one to blow their cork and do something horrendus... IMHO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #7 January 8, 2002 Makes ya wonder, thats for sure. I've often wondered that myself. I'm the older of 3 from a family most would consider "dysfunctional." While me myself could have definately made some better decisions growing up, I wouldnt trade it for anything. My brother and sister are both 6+ years younger than me and although our home environment growing up was not what some would call ideal, they are some of the best / smartest kids anyone could hope for. They , in my opinion, have superior decision making skills, and they are vry goal oriented, without even thikning about it.I think maybe, with them growing up in an environment that exposes alot of the things in the world not taught in classrooms, and with a family who doesnt try to hide things from them or shelter them, but instead teaches them and helps them understand, that the kids grow up not looking for something they have never had. Instead they are more knowledgable? If that makes any sense at all-lol I'm sure there are as many arguments to this as there is "envoronment variables" in the world-lolTwo people can see the exact same thing and interpret it differently. The wild hairy dynamics of the human race-lol"dont try to bend the spoon, that is impossible. Instead only realize the truth........there is no spoonhttp://www.cyberskydive.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleJumper 0 #8 January 8, 2002 Very similar to stories i've heard about rich kids who turn to drugs...why? for the kicks! they have everything they need & want...and they need some excitement and some kind of symbolism possiblyMy opinion onlyWhat you "think" you cannot do ...you CAN if you "think" about it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #9 January 8, 2002 >Very similar to stories i've heard about rich kids who turn to drugs...why? for the> kicks! they have everything they need & want...and they need some excitement> and some kind of symbolism possiblyYep, and the opposite is true as well. I remember a story about a woman who was a professional dominatrix, had friends with lots of piercings and purple hair etc and also had a son. When he turned 15 or so he started wearing three piece suits. It drove her nuts. He was rebelling, like most kids do. In this case, he was rebelling against the standard rebellion uniform.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #10 January 8, 2002 Quotehe was rebelling against the standard rebellion uniformMy wife's cousin, who is an absolute hoot and a true one-of-a-kind once wrote a song entitled "I Wanna Be A Nonconformist... Just Like You!". I always loved that title. It's so, so true. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 January 8, 2002 skybych,Sounds like your son is going through a rebellious phase.Ha! Ha!At least he is doing better than me.I rebelled against my teetotaller father and became a drunk.Then I decided to rebell against societal attitudes towards booze and haven't touched a drop in 5 years! This rebelling stuff can be awfully tiring and confusing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #12 January 8, 2002 Obviously something messed up went on here, but some things just don't add up.Almost immediately after the incident the police tell everyone that he was a "loner" who "had no friends" and "never talked to anyone". Gee. Where have we heard that before?Then they reference a suicide note (which they won't show to anyone) which supposedly evidences support of Osama Bin Laden and various other nasty things.Everyone who knew him says exactly the opposite... that he was a friendly, good natured kid and an honor student. That he wasn't a loner and seemed fairly well liked. And that he was very distraught over Sept. 11 and confided that he wanted to join the Air Force to help fight.So what do the cops say? "Nope. Forget the people that knew him. He was a loner. He came from a broken home. Nobody liked him (except his dog). He supported Osama Bin Laden."I'm sorry. But this just smells really, really bad. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #13 January 8, 2002 There's a difference in giving your kid shit and giving a shit about your kid... just because his parents paid for him to take flying lessons doesn't mean he had any kind of moral direction or real world experience. Regardless of social position, obviously your son has an idea of what's right and wrong, and that comes from the relationship with the parent(s); a relationship that the kid with "all the advantages" might not have had. Some of the most screwy people I've known have come from upper class, law-abiding parents who tried to "protect" their kids from the evils of the world...Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dove 0 #14 January 8, 2002 Lisa,I think the fact that it disturbs you so much is testament to how much you care about your kid. And I have to say I don't know a single kid of skydiving parents that isn't wonderful, dynamic, standup and loving toward their parents. And that is entirely because skydivers know life is about being happy and spreading it around. Not about expensive flight school lessons or a new car on your 16th birthday. Congrats to you on an awesome job of parenting! Maybe through Darwinian elimination we will someday be a society of happy skydivers. yeehaw!dove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiataDRM 0 #15 January 8, 2002 While it's true, some turn to drugs for kicks...however, the ones w/ problems resort to drugs to self medicate themselves because of unfulfilled emotional needs. Trying to get something that all the money is not giving them & never will...like emotional support & acceptance. On a different note, instead of being sheltered while growing up, parents should let their children see the world for what it is (granted at appropriate ages) & be supportive & show they care...even by sincerely asking a simple question like "how was your day." Most of my friends that are very successful & great to be around grew up in middle class household & some from down right poor...those are the ones (not always) that realize what opportunities there are in the world and seek higher goals to better themselves & their surrounding. IMHO...which reminds me...I need to mail out my $300 check for my school loan (yes, psychology)! LOL**I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 January 8, 2002 Quoteor a new car on your 16th birthdayScrew that, I think one of the best things my folks have done for me was buy me a run down, barely running 1973 SuperBeetle when I was 15. I had to rebuild the engine, transmission, redo the brake system, electrical system and the suspension so I could drive it. It taught me a whole lot about mechanics (I never knew much about cars before that, now I'm a car nut) and about value and taking care of my stuff.Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ducky 0 #17 January 8, 2002 To attempt to understand or explain is the sad part here. Within a week a team of psychologist will have a list of "warning signs" that will send parents near and far into a panic. It happens everytime, Columbine anyone??? We all seem to forget that kids are living breathing self operating creatures and sometimes just sometimes parents cannot do it all.kwak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #18 January 8, 2002 im not a parent( i think) so my opinions will not be needed herebut i gotta Agree! this about sums it up------------------------------------------------------------------------------There's a difference in giving your kid shit and giving a shit about your kid... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Have fun, LIVE FREE, SkydiveJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 January 8, 2002 That's whats scary, the "warning signs" for educators (who shouldn't be in that kind of business anyways) and parents to "look" for. The signs that I saw published after Columbine frightened me, since a lot of them described me when I was that age (the age of the shooters). I used to (still do actually) spend an ungodly amount of time on the computer, on the net, programming, running multipul servers in my bedroom, etc. I listen to that *crazy* music (heavy metal), I had friends and stuff, but I also spent a great deal of time "disconnected" from everything, on my computer. I liked (like) guns, knives, etc. Like any boy growing up I liked fire and stuff that made a pop...Hell, I even wore a trench coat. (This was a few years b/f those kids in the "trench coat mafia" made that taboo). Still, I didn't have any desire to shoot anybody, no desire to blow up anything, didn't want to harm anyone. Still don't. All of those warning signs are generally bullshit, if parents would take the time to know their kids and provide a good loving environment, the ROFUs (rate of f--- ups) of kids would decline drastically. No, they wouldn't go away, simply because we're human and the human mind is a very complex thing, but it would decline.No TV is not to blame, NO computers are not to blame, NO the schools are not to blame, NO movies are not to blame, NO music is not to blame, NO video games are not to blame. What is there to blame. IMHO the parents are to blame. Maybe since my parents are a little older then some, I was raised sort of old fasioned: with a Bible in one hand and belt in the other, but with lots of love too.AggieDaveSuccess is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 0 #20 January 8, 2002 Good job Lisa. Being a parent is somewhat like taking a walk over a canyon on a rope with no safety net below while you’re looking at your kid doing the same thing on a string. We can give our kids everything we want or can. If it’s love we can’t give them enough of it. If it’s money, well just make sure we have enough for the next couple jumps (haha). I would opt for the first. It’s tough letting them go and having to watch them make mistakes. Getting hurt by others (falling in love – braking up – the endless (Parents) nightmare). We don’t know what makes these sick Kids tick different than the others that can act like halfway “normal” teenage Kids. One thing that I know is, that none of us that have Kids were born as Parents. I for myself have to learn what it means to listen and to be able to admit, that I don’t know everything. Also that I’m by far not perfect. As a father of 4 beautiful Girls it sometimes is hell to be a parent and to be confronted with my own shortcomings. So what do I do? I take one of them with me on my bike and we drive through the mountains to the DZ – watch the circus where I’m part of it. (Look at the smile of my oldest on the attachment).Spend time with one at the time and enjoying growing up with them. (Just got an AC/DC-CD for my birthday –cool)Yes let’s teach our Kids, that life isn’t easy but we can make it beautiful by being able to do something we enjoy for ourselves and with our friends.Blue onesPhil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #21 January 8, 2002 Lisa,As a first time parent, I have no idea what I'm doing but I can say this. If the love of my life turns out as good as you think yours did, I'll be fulfilled as a parent.FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #22 January 8, 2002 Jesus H. Flipping Christ on a Rope..Did I just show signs of being a mature, growing adult?? Somebody just go ahead and kill me...FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 0 #23 January 8, 2002 ...Jesus H. Flipping Christ on a Rope..Did I just show signs of being a mature, growing adult?? Somebody just go ahead and kill me...___________________________________________________haha - you just discovered the dark side in you - now go take that stick and go play a mean airguitar in front of your kidlolPhil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #24 January 8, 2002 It's Ok FFF,,Really,,, ya live long enough it can happen,, Congrats!! BEER!! As far as the topic goes,, I seen kids from the best family do bad,, and kids from the worst situations do really well,, count your blessings Sweety,, They will alway's need a loving family member and sounds like ya met that need!! BIG OL PAT ON THE BACK AND HUG!! (as I wipe a tear from my eye...) Kids,, the lil Fu*#ers!! Too bad they don't stay cute & cuddly,, Like Puppies and Kittens! Butt NO!! They have ta grow up and become teenagers,, puberty,, "like Whatever!!" Ohhh geeze,, I sound like my parents!! I do feel for this kids family,, I'm sure they are asking themselves the same questions,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #25 January 8, 2002 Billy,Quotecount your blessings SweetyDamn, dude...I hope you meant that for skybytch...lol. I don't know if I could stand the pressure if that was meant for me...lol.FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
