Least expensive way to get canopy relined

[BigMark 1]

Also what manufactures are generally the least cost and easiest to work with in supporting existing canopies. I currently have a Triathlon 130 that needs relining and someone said it cost him $300 for a reline, this seems like a lot.

I imagine (and hope!) a competent rigger in a low cost of living part of the country might be willing to do it for less.

TIA!

[BIGUN 1,069]

I want you to go over to the corner and not come out until you've thought about what you said and promise that it won't happen again.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Also what manufactures are generally the least cost and easiest to work with in supporting existing canopies. I currently have a Triathlon 130 that needs relining and someone said it cost him $300 for a reline, this seems like a lot.

I imagine (and hope!) a competent rigger in a low cost of living part of the country might be willing to do it for less.

TIA!

Nope, that's about average. Most of that is the cost of the lines, not the labor. Shop around all you want, but it's likely not going to save you much. I think you'll also find that line set prices are about the same across manufacturers.

To expand on what BIGUN said, while you're in the corner, start to think about the investment in time, training, and tools that a rigger makes. The more you learn about what they do, the more you realize that they're not overpaid.

(BTW if you want to have an idea of what's involved, start here. And if you're sick of paying your rigger's prices, think about getting your own ticket.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,427]

That's about what it costs. If you don't want to pay that much you can:

-learn how to do a reline and just buy the reline kit from the manufacturer
-learn how to build a line set and then do it completely by yourself

You can do 90% of it without any special tools, then borrow a bartacker to finish the job.

[PhreeZone 15]

Raw line set alone is going to be $175-250 if you get it from the factory (plus shipping) and then figure in the labor for a rigger to do the install. That is assuming the rigger actually has a bartack machine and their bartack pattern is t he correct one for the canopy. You are going to need to find something more than your "hick" rigger to do this right.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[BigMark 1]

Thanks for the answers folks, bigun is still mad at me for dissin the anvil brothers most spectacular awesome website. I have an excellent rigger, but like most excellent riggers he gets busy, especially right about now.

[gowlerk 1,923]

It's a main. You can do it yourself! You could even make your own line set. Just order some line, get some e thread, and a zigzag sewing machine. Correct bartacks are nice, but not necessary.

Let us know how it turns out. I'm only half kidding.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[BigMark 1]

I'll just the Germain stretching method.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Here you go:

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/download/triathlonlinetrim.pdf

PLUS

http://www.paragear.com/templates/base_template.asp?group=32#W9777R

PLUS

http://www.paragear.com/templates/base_template.asp?group=33#T1009

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Sky_doggy 0]

I sent mine out to Simon Wade. He did an awesome job and turned it around very quickly. Try a Google search on Skydiving Services Boulder City.

[jumpinjackflsh 0]

+1

[BIGUN 1,069]

Quote

Thanks for the answers folks, bigun is still mad at me for dissin the anvil brothers most spectacular awesome website. I have an excellent rigger, but like most excellent riggers he gets busy, especially right about now.

Nope. Thats been MaxxMadMaxx's site for about 5 years. This was all about riggin brother.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Sky_doggy 0]

billvon

That's about what it costs. If you don't want to pay that much you can:

-learn how to do a reline and just buy the reline kit from the manufacturer
-learn how to build a line set and then do it completely by yourself

You can do 90% of it without any special tools, then borrow a bartacker to finish the job.

So you have piqued my curiosity. Can you point me towards some reference materials where I see what is involved in learning to make a line set?

Thanks

[Hellis 0]

Sky_doggy

***That's about what it costs. If you don't want to pay that much you can:

-learn how to do a reline and just buy the reline kit from the manufacturer
-learn how to build a line set and then do it completely by yourself

You can do 90% of it without any special tools, then borrow a bartacker to finish the job.

So you have piqued my curiosity. Can you point me towards some reference materials where I see what is involved in learning to make a line set?

Thanks

Go to Paragear and buy some spectraline, and a metal fidset, the plastic one works but not nearly as good.

[likestojump 3]

Sky_doggy

***That's about what it costs. If you don't want to pay that much you can:

-learn how to do a reline and just buy the reline kit from the manufacturer
-learn how to build a line set and then do it completely by yourself

You can do 90% of it without any special tools, then borrow a bartacker to finish the job.

So you have piqued my curiosity. Can you point me towards some reference materials where I see what is involved in learning to make a line set?

Thanks

all you need to do is :

measure (with great precision)
fingertrap (cascades, and line ends)
bartack

a square 9 cell canopy has 40 main (A/B/C/D) line attachments and 8 upper steering lines. That translates into :

steering lines :
8 upper (12 bartacks, 12 fingertraps) (assuming it's a continuous line that's trapped into itself
2 lower (4 bartacks, 4 fingertraps)
2 toggle lines (2 or 2 bartacks and 2 or 4 fingertraps)

main lines :
10 A + 10 B fingertrapped (30 bartacks, 40 fingertraps)
10 C + 10 D fingertrapped (30 bartacks, 40 fingertraps)
4 more bartacks per side at the stabilizers (8 total)

that's a total of 48 lines that need to be made, 108 or 106 bartacks that need to be made and 98 to 100 fingertraps

quite involved, huh ?

[davelepka 4]

Quote

that's a total of 48 lines that need to be made, 108 or 106 bartacks that need to be made and 98 to 100 fingertraps

No, what you actually have is 250 chances to screw it up (at a minimum). Every fingertrap, bartack, and cut is a chance to screw up the line because fingertraps have a way of stretching as the line tightens, and bartacks have a way of shrinking the line as you ley them down. Even if you're only off by the slightest fraction of an inch, multiply that by 250 and have a pretty fucked up line set.

I send my canopy in to PD. I have yet to have a line related problem and I'm on my 4th lineset on my Velo with 400-500 jump in between changes. It's less than a buck-a-jump, and that includes an inspection and factory repairs on any problems they find.

[Quagmirian 40]

Remember that the Triathlon is a 7 cell canopy, so there are only 40 lines rather than 48. I reckon a 130 would use less than 100 yds of line so it's not going to cost that much either. A triathlon isn't going to be as sensitive to trim changes as something like a velocity, and to make it easier, all lines in a spanwise group will be the same length. I say go for it OP, if you can borrow a bartacker the tools required will be minimal and I'm sure you'll be able to find a rigger who will help you out. Even if you cock it up monstrously, you will have learned why linesets are so expensive.

[Sky_doggy 0]

Quote

Every fingertrap, bartack, and cut is a chance to screw up the line because fingertraps have a way of stretching as the line tightens, and bartacks have a way of shrinking the line as you ley them down. Even if you're only off by the slightest fraction of an inch, multiply that by 250 and have a pretty fucked up line set.

I send my canopy in to PD. I have yet to have a line related problem and I'm on my 4th lineset on my Velo with 400-500 jump in between changes. It's less than a buck-a-jump, and that includes an inspection and factory repairs on any problems they find.

Dave,

I have watched all of the PD video's on line types and I am slightly smarter on this topic than I used to be. As I understand it, high performance and /or highly loaded canopies have little margin for error, LeBlanc talks about less than 1/4".

For stuff that I fly my guess is that I could mess it up a bit and it would be fine, although if I assign a value to my time to make a line set then paying the professionals $300 would be cheaper every time.
For me, if I was ever to do this it would be to learn something new and I guess its hard to assign a value to knowledge.

As a general question, if I wanted to how to make finger traps, is this 6 pack or beer and couple of hours with a rigger, or is there other sources of documentation?

Cheers

[Southern_Man 0]

Sky_doggy

***

For me, if I was ever to do this it would be to learn something new and I guess its hard to assign a value to knowledge.

As a general question, if I wanted to how to make finger traps, is this 6 pack or beer and couple of hours with a rigger, or is there other sources of documentation?

Cheers

You should have learned to finger trap material as part of Category H (replace main closing loop) on your A license card. It is also on the 2 page A license card.

Here's a pretty good online tutorial as well: whoops, that link was an advanced finger trapping technique...I can't find one for basic finger trapping.

Your rigger should also be able to show you. I'm a big fan on hands-on learning because I always seem to have issues seeing pictures and being able to tell if what I am doing is right. With hands on instruction you get to have somebody check you without developing an incorrect habit.

Practice a few times and finger trapping is not that difficult.

There is a bit more than that in making a new line set.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

all you need to do is :

measure (with great precision)
fingertrap (cascades, and line ends)
bartack

a square 9 cell canopy has 40 main (A/B/C/D) line attachments and 8 upper steering lines. That translates into :

steering lines :
8 upper (12 bartacks, 12 fingertraps) (assuming it's a continuous line that's trapped into itself
2 lower (4 bartacks, 4 fingertraps)
2 toggle lines (2 or 2 bartacks and 2 or 4 fingertraps)

main lines :
10 A + 10 B fingertrapped (30 bartacks, 40 fingertraps)
10 C + 10 D fingertrapped (30 bartacks, 40 fingertraps)
4 more bartacks per side at the stabilizers (8 total)

that's a total of 48 lines that need to be made, 108 or 106 bartacks that need to be made and 98 to 100 fingertraps

quite involved, huh ?

You guys are still missing one thing....
Either you need to hold a Master Rigger's certificate or be under the direct supervision of one for doing major repairs like replacing lines.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[voilsb 1]

Does that apply on a non-certificated canopy? What if he builds the line set and delivers it to his local master rigger for inspection, and then is only charged an inspection fee for okay-ing it?


On the bit for building a line set, it's not terribly difficult and on a square 7-cell canopy the consequences of being a couple 16ths of an inch off are minimal, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be an option for a curious riglet to attempt.

Brian

[Hellis 0]

Sky_doggy

As a general question, if I wanted to how to make finger traps, is this 6 pack or beer and couple of hours with a rigger, or is there other sources of documentation?

Cheers

It's not hard.
If you just look at a fingertrapped line you should figure out what to do.

If you use a fid, just screw the fid on the end of the line.
push the fid needle inside the line and keep pushing it in till the loop is correct size.
"exit" the needle and unscrew the fid and pull it out.

You don't need to stitch the end unless you actually plan on making a lineset.
But for normal uses, such as replacing lines on tents, a line to hand wet clothes on, etc. you can just leave it as it is, hand tack it, or make a "stitch free" tack.

Having some line with you when you go to a boogie or just on a camping is very nice.
You can easily set up a line to hang wet towels etc. on in minutes and you know it won't break and will be very easy to take down again.


Buy some line and a fidset.
Or if you are going to send the canopy for a reline, cut off the lines before you ship it.
You can use those lines to play and learn with.

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Does that apply on a non-certificated canopy?

Absolutely.
There are just two types or repairs according to the FAA regulations; Major and Minor.

The official definition of a major repair is one that may affect airworthiness if done improperly.

Only a Master Rigger or someone under his/her supervision can do a major repair whether it be a main or reserve. The big difference here is that work completed on main canopies do not need documentation, whereas reserves do require documentation.

Quote

On the bit for building a line set, it's not terribly difficult and on a square 7-cell canopy the consequences of being a couple 16ths of an inch off are minimal, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be an option for a curious riglet to attempt.

So do you think following the FAA regulations would be a good reason?

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[mark 102]

masterrigger1

Quote

Does that apply on a non-certificated canopy?

Absolutely.
There are just two types or repairs according to the FAA regulations; Major and Minor.

The official definition of a major repair is one that may affect airworthiness if done improperly.

Only a Master Rigger or someone under his/her supervision can do a major repair whether it be a main or reserve. The big difference here is that work completed on main canopies do not need documentation, whereas reserves do require documentation.
MEL

It is not as clear to me as it is to you that a main canopy manufactured without regard to airworthiness standards can have its airworthiness affected by a repair. "Airworthiness" is not a property of main canopies.

Mark

[JerryBaumchen 1,063]

Hi Mark,

Quote

"Airworthiness" is not a property of main canopies.

You beat me to it.

I'm getting slow as I get older.

When someone can publish 'something' on a technical standard for a main canopy then I might change my mind.

JerryBaumchen