DSE 3 #26 October 5, 2007 Quote Well, I haven't really actively asked for input at the DZ actually. To be honest, for certain reasons I'm a very introverted and socially shy person, so I'm a little reluctant to go up to very expierenced jumpers and ask for their advice. It's also the fact that the mayority of experienced jumpers at the DZ's I go to, jump small canopy's, so I think they would probably think jumping a 150 at my level would be fine, but I might be wrong there. That's why I'd rather ask something in here (forums) than actually talking to people. Thanks for the reply Eli :) Being shy and introverted at a DZ definitely won't help when it comes to safety. At this stage in your skydiving career, you'll need to learn to do the same so you can ask questions the answers to which, may well help you not get broken. It'll also invite those people to be your friends. Most people answering here are jumping smaller canopies, and they're all advising you to stay with the 170 but change out your reserve. I'd bet the guys at your DZ are probably much the same. You'll be surprised at how many skydivers want to help out a newbie. Give em' a chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #27 October 5, 2007 QuoteI feel a little reluctant to jump it because I'm having doubts about the fact if I have sufficient 'experience' to jump it. While a 150 at 1.14 W/L doesn't sound too outlandish to me (I jumped similar gear at 100 jumps), if you're having doubts, why jump it? Even more importantly, please follow the "one new thing at a time" rule. New canopy = more risk, new DZ = more risk... New canopy * new DZ = more risk^2. This is further compounded by the fact that I'm guessing prior to your 10 jumps on 170's, you probably were jumping something even larger... 10 jumps isn't much, so that's adding even more risk. Please stay with the 170 at least until you get back to your home DZ. At that point, if you're comfortable with it, break out the 150 for a few test-jumps, and ask some people to watch how you do."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #28 October 5, 2007 Quote Well, I haven't really actively asked for input at the DZ actually. To be honest, for certain reasons I'm a very introverted and socially shy person, so I'm a little reluctant to go up to very expierenced jumpers and ask for their advice. You'd be surprised at how well the offer of a cold one at the end of the day will get them chatting to you I understand your shyness bro but you will learn a lot in this sport by sitting around talking to people on the DZ. Watch people land, if you hear the experienced guys go "wow, that was bad" or "that was good" ask them to explain why. Nobody is too good to share info with you Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #29 October 5, 2007 Hi! The thing that I have a problem with is how much you are jumping. You mentioned that you make like 2 jumps a month? I don't think anyone making so few jumps over such a great period of time should be downsizing at all. There isn't really a good reason for you to and there are plenty of reasons that you should stick with a larger canopy. You aren't making enough jumps to become familiar with what you are jumping. You are at most maintaining the skill level you have and any learning that you are doing is really stunted by the long period of time between jumps. This doesn't make for a lot of progression and it should be the main reason that you are worried about changing to a smaller, faster and less forgiving canopy. You are likely to make more mistakes given that you aren't as comfortable. I would consider finding something a bit more reasonable. I don't know you so I can't say for sure but in all, I think you would be better off and have more fun overall with your skydiving if you were less worried about your gear. Thanks for reading!~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #30 October 5, 2007 QuoteThe thing that I have a problem with is how much you are jumping. You mentioned that you make like 2 jumps a month? I missed that part, and have to agree 100% with the above comment. 2 jumps a month (maybe 16-20 a year?) isn't enough to improve skills. Even 2 a week (50-75 a year) isn't much, and downsizing would need to be considered very carefully, and done after several years. I'm not saying that jumping twice a month is necessarily bad, and I realize sometimes that's all you can afford or have time for (I know... I've been there). But it has to be recogized that such occasional jumping comes with limitations."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elias123 0 #31 October 5, 2007 well I guess its a little more than that. It's about 50 jumps a year, so say 4 jumps a month."In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #32 October 5, 2007 Whoever said Quote that it probably wouldn't be a problem needs to get thier ass kicked. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elias123 0 #33 October 5, 2007 Thanks for the replies, PM's and advise everybody, I really appreciate it! I am gonna try to sell my rig and buy a larger canopy (nothing smaller than a 170). And when I get that larger canopy (with a big reserve) I will stay on that canopy for a long time. Now I just have to go through the proces of selling my rig and buying another, and altough that may take a long time, I think it is a good decision. My best regards Eli ;)"In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #34 October 5, 2007 Quote I am gonna try to sell my rig and buy a larger canopy (nothing smaller than a 170). And when I get that larger canopy (with a big reserve) I will stay on that canopy for a long time. Good to hear, I wish there were more out there like you. Congrats, you're officially smarter than 99% of the skydiving community. (ok, I exaggerated... maybe it's more like 95% of the skydiving community). Have fun out there!"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
derrickiv 0 #35 October 5, 2007 One question that was never answered.. what size/WL should you reserve be so you could still land relatively safely an unconscious deployment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #36 October 6, 2007 QuoteOne question that was never answered.. what size/WL should you reserve be so you could still land relatively safely an unconscious deployment? I see the "what if you are unconcious under your reserve?" argument used alot on DZ.com... personally, I don't think it's a very good one. Why? because in 8 years of jumping and 25 years on dropzones, and a father with 34 years of jumping, I have heard of EXACTLY ONE incidence of someone landing unconcious under canopy (AAD fired, she survived). There are plenty of other, much better reasons to keep your reserve on the larger size: - You're probably low - You may have to land it in an unfamiliar area - You may have never landed that canopy - Reserve fabric is F-111, and doesn't provide as much lift as ZP - You're probably not calm unless you've had a few reserve rides before - ect, ect, ect.... Bottom line: For most newer jumpers, your reserve should be at minimum the size of your main. One size larger would be even better. Larger than that is ok too, but on most containers you can't have too much difference between main and reserve size anyway."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #37 October 6, 2007 Also something to think about: even though the combination 170 main (ie merit, not spectre or similar as it won't fit) or 150 main and 128 reserve is quite common for smaller/lighter jumpers, because that's what fits in an atom 00, doesn't mean it's smart. If you're used to jumping a 170, the 128 is a totally different animal and you may get the fright of your life. I suggest renting a pd126r or similar size smart reserve on main risers for you to jump as a main for a few jumps. Don't want to? Why are you jumping one as your last chance then??? Don't like it after the jumps? Now you know to get a bigger rig and bigger reserve pronto. The jumps went alright? Then you're probably ok on a 150 main too ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #38 October 6, 2007 There's been more than one... Google revealed several, but I've only witnessed this one. I had just landed from the 45-way attempt when this happened. Without Greg, there's no doubt she would have bounced...Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #39 October 6, 2007 Why would you get flamed for asking a question like that? If you're in doubt, then you're really not in doubt. That's true for more than canopy choices in skydiving. Like in "I'm not sure I can land this slightly malfunctioning canopy". Get a size that you're comfortable with, jump, and have fun. You're skydiving for fun, right? And BTW, the freefall is pretty much the same with a 170 as with a 150. Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elias123 0 #40 October 6, 2007 Quote I see the "what if you are unconcious under your reserve?" argument used alot on DZ.com... personally, I don't think it's a very good one. Why? because in 8 years of jumping and 25 years on dropzones, and a father with 34 years of jumping, I have heard of EXACTLY ONE incidence of someone landing unconcious under canopy (AAD fired, she survived). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciIjdvNo65s I think/believe he was unconcious for the entire jump and landing after the collission occurred. I believe there are also some other unconcious cypres saves/reserve landings in the official cypres saves list. If you open the link below you will already see two examples of cypress saves and landings on a reserve while unconcious under "spectacular reports of cypres lifesavings". http://www.cypres.cc/Sites/englisch/Frameset_engl_download.htm"In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #41 October 6, 2007 QuoteQuote I think/believe he was unconcious for the entire jump and landing after the collission occurred. I believe Chris was conscious during the skydive and subsequent canopy flight. If you watch the video again/closely, you can see him checking out his reserve and then back to looking at the ground. It's not really relevant whether he was unconscious or not, he wasn't controlling the canopy, which I think is your point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #42 October 7, 2007 I would suggest tryig to demo a reserve that size first. The worst thing that can happen is your at a new unfamiliar dz, and you have a reserve ride, now your in a new place, possibly landing out on a canopy you have never jumper, landing it for the first time, possibly in a neighborhood, a street, or even the woods. There is plenty of incedents where someone had a ride, and ended up hurt or worse because they were were unfamiliar with the canopy and eded up landing very bad. You could probably handle the main, but then again you also might not. The only one that knows if your capable is you. Seeing that your concerned probably means your not ready. Id stick with the bigger canopy for now until your ready. Then pick the right conditions (wind ect) to jump the new one. If your very conservative you should be fine, but learning to do hp landings on a smaller canopy is a lot more dangerous that with a bigger canopy. Id say jump the big one until your completely bored with it, then if you so choose learn how to boost your landings on the big one, this will give you added excitement with the big one and keep you safer. Once your nailing your landings with it every time, then your probably ready to try the smaller one. Once again jump it a lot to get familiar with it before attempting anything hp with it. I know this sounds like a long slow plan, but a long slow plan is a very safe plan. Compared to downsizing to keep the canopy fun, then trying to learn hp landings under a tiny canopy. I myself downsized over a thousand jumps to a tiny canopy, then tried to learn to swoop, I have lots of metal in my legs to show for it. Im not saying you will follow in my footsteps, there is a lot of people that pulled this off, but not everyone is the same. Id ask around, see what people you jump with think. The best advice is from the people that see you jump. beleive me people pay attention. In Deland we call the people that are rushing things "NEXT" and beleive it or not its usually right. The NEXT guy usually ends up pounding it in. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders about this. So keep it up, take your time and stay safe. Good luck. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #43 October 7, 2007 QuoteWell, I haven't really actively asked for input at the DZ actually. To be honest, for certain reasons I'm a very introverted and socially shy person, so I'm a little reluctant to go up to very expierenced jumpers and ask for their advice. Well, I cannot address that. You are who you are. FWIW, in my FJC ground course, I ask the students if they are shy or reservd. If they are, I ask them that they put that aside for training and get aggressive in asking questions, speaking their mind and verbalizing during training emphasizing that it helps the learning process. However, if the speaking and verbalizing becomes a problem that inhibits learning, I simply back off and find other ways to enhance the learning process for them. QuoteIt's also the fact that the mayority of experienced jumpers at the DZ's I go to, jump small canopy's, so I think they would probably think jumping a 150 at my level would be fine, but I might be wrong there. No, you a not wrong. You are correct. That wwould mostl likely be the case nowadays. QuoteSo I guess what I'm saying is, that if I asked for it, people would definately give me advise at the DZ, but I'd be carefull taking that advice because I think most of the jumpers there downsized fast themselves so going to the 150 might not be a problem at all from their point of view. Yep. There's another thread dealing with just that sort of issue. Many of the "experienced" forget what it was like being a new jumper. Many base their recomendations solely on what worked for them with no consideration on what may/can work for you. You are wise to be careful there. Damn. I wish everybody had that approach instead of simply, blindly implementing advice. QuoteAs for the new canopy, I already bought it a little more than a month or so ago, it's just now in the last 2 weeks or so that I started to realise that I probably should not be jumping it and should stay on bigger canopy's for a while. Good stuff! At least you have the new one if you eventually decide to use it. If not, then you can always sell it to someone else.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RaXz 0 #44 October 7, 2007 Really courageous that you started this topic about your problem, I am really glad about it, great going! :) I really got worried when you told me about the size of the reserve, maybe we didn't had such a great day if you jumped with your new rig. It's damn hard to be introverted and socially shy individual in this sport, I have to force myself to do things I normally wouldn't do. After all, it's al risk management, and it seems to be great training. I shudder when I think about hurting myself or somebody else, because I was socially shy. Blue skies Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Baksteen 84 #45 October 8, 2007 Yeah, please tell us, how did you like the new DZ? I'm curious as it turns out that that DZ turned out to be the one I jump at And what canopy did you end up renting? "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites elias123 0 #46 October 8, 2007 I loved it! I think I like smaller DZ's most. This one has this cozy warm feelling and a wonderfull vibe that I get from it! And people were very friendly and funny. Awesome :) I will definately come back again altough maby not very soon because transport and extra costs for not being a member are a little high for a student like me. I also jumped out of a Cessna 206 for the first time. I love small airplanes! And I jumped a sabre 190. (Were you there too saturday?)"In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d123 1 #47 October 8, 2007 When you've rented it did you find & check the reserve card? Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites elias123 0 #48 October 8, 2007 Nope, I didn't really stood still or thought about what size reserve was in there But I'm sure it was big enough (150 or bigger I think) It was student/beginner/novice gear after all. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites elias123 0 #49 October 8, 2007 Hi Mark, Thank you for your reply :) I have the feeling that we got along great and I hope we get to jump together in the near future. Good luck on your next jumps buddy ;) See ya Eli"In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jumpah 0 #50 October 8, 2007 Good choice on sticking with the 170...not every day is perfect wind, with perfect spot, and perfect pattern, with soft cushy grass. Someday you may find yourself heading into a backyard, and you'll want to have as much control over your equipment as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Rdutch 0 #42 October 7, 2007 I would suggest tryig to demo a reserve that size first. The worst thing that can happen is your at a new unfamiliar dz, and you have a reserve ride, now your in a new place, possibly landing out on a canopy you have never jumper, landing it for the first time, possibly in a neighborhood, a street, or even the woods. There is plenty of incedents where someone had a ride, and ended up hurt or worse because they were were unfamiliar with the canopy and eded up landing very bad. You could probably handle the main, but then again you also might not. The only one that knows if your capable is you. Seeing that your concerned probably means your not ready. Id stick with the bigger canopy for now until your ready. Then pick the right conditions (wind ect) to jump the new one. If your very conservative you should be fine, but learning to do hp landings on a smaller canopy is a lot more dangerous that with a bigger canopy. Id say jump the big one until your completely bored with it, then if you so choose learn how to boost your landings on the big one, this will give you added excitement with the big one and keep you safer. Once your nailing your landings with it every time, then your probably ready to try the smaller one. Once again jump it a lot to get familiar with it before attempting anything hp with it. I know this sounds like a long slow plan, but a long slow plan is a very safe plan. Compared to downsizing to keep the canopy fun, then trying to learn hp landings under a tiny canopy. I myself downsized over a thousand jumps to a tiny canopy, then tried to learn to swoop, I have lots of metal in my legs to show for it. Im not saying you will follow in my footsteps, there is a lot of people that pulled this off, but not everyone is the same. Id ask around, see what people you jump with think. The best advice is from the people that see you jump. beleive me people pay attention. In Deland we call the people that are rushing things "NEXT" and beleive it or not its usually right. The NEXT guy usually ends up pounding it in. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders about this. So keep it up, take your time and stay safe. Good luck. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #43 October 7, 2007 QuoteWell, I haven't really actively asked for input at the DZ actually. To be honest, for certain reasons I'm a very introverted and socially shy person, so I'm a little reluctant to go up to very expierenced jumpers and ask for their advice. Well, I cannot address that. You are who you are. FWIW, in my FJC ground course, I ask the students if they are shy or reservd. If they are, I ask them that they put that aside for training and get aggressive in asking questions, speaking their mind and verbalizing during training emphasizing that it helps the learning process. However, if the speaking and verbalizing becomes a problem that inhibits learning, I simply back off and find other ways to enhance the learning process for them. QuoteIt's also the fact that the mayority of experienced jumpers at the DZ's I go to, jump small canopy's, so I think they would probably think jumping a 150 at my level would be fine, but I might be wrong there. No, you a not wrong. You are correct. That wwould mostl likely be the case nowadays. QuoteSo I guess what I'm saying is, that if I asked for it, people would definately give me advise at the DZ, but I'd be carefull taking that advice because I think most of the jumpers there downsized fast themselves so going to the 150 might not be a problem at all from their point of view. Yep. There's another thread dealing with just that sort of issue. Many of the "experienced" forget what it was like being a new jumper. Many base their recomendations solely on what worked for them with no consideration on what may/can work for you. You are wise to be careful there. Damn. I wish everybody had that approach instead of simply, blindly implementing advice. QuoteAs for the new canopy, I already bought it a little more than a month or so ago, it's just now in the last 2 weeks or so that I started to realise that I probably should not be jumping it and should stay on bigger canopy's for a while. Good stuff! At least you have the new one if you eventually decide to use it. If not, then you can always sell it to someone else.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaXz 0 #44 October 7, 2007 Really courageous that you started this topic about your problem, I am really glad about it, great going! :) I really got worried when you told me about the size of the reserve, maybe we didn't had such a great day if you jumped with your new rig. It's damn hard to be introverted and socially shy individual in this sport, I have to force myself to do things I normally wouldn't do. After all, it's al risk management, and it seems to be great training. I shudder when I think about hurting myself or somebody else, because I was socially shy. Blue skies Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #45 October 8, 2007 Yeah, please tell us, how did you like the new DZ? I'm curious as it turns out that that DZ turned out to be the one I jump at And what canopy did you end up renting? "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elias123 0 #46 October 8, 2007 I loved it! I think I like smaller DZ's most. This one has this cozy warm feelling and a wonderfull vibe that I get from it! And people were very friendly and funny. Awesome :) I will definately come back again altough maby not very soon because transport and extra costs for not being a member are a little high for a student like me. I also jumped out of a Cessna 206 for the first time. I love small airplanes! And I jumped a sabre 190. (Were you there too saturday?)"In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #47 October 8, 2007 When you've rented it did you find & check the reserve card? Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elias123 0 #48 October 8, 2007 Nope, I didn't really stood still or thought about what size reserve was in there But I'm sure it was big enough (150 or bigger I think) It was student/beginner/novice gear after all. "In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elias123 0 #49 October 8, 2007 Hi Mark, Thank you for your reply :) I have the feeling that we got along great and I hope we get to jump together in the near future. Good luck on your next jumps buddy ;) See ya Eli"In a mad world, only the mad are sane" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpah 0 #50 October 8, 2007 Good choice on sticking with the 170...not every day is perfect wind, with perfect spot, and perfect pattern, with soft cushy grass. Someday you may find yourself heading into a backyard, and you'll want to have as much control over your equipment as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
