Matrix Reloaded...

[Trent 0]

Am I the only one that thought this movie was kinda cheap?? It basically seemed like a 15 minute story stretched into 2 hours and 20 minutes so that we'd (and we all will) pay to see the next one too. The special effects were a lot less well-done than in the first one. It seems they decided it'd be cheaper to use CG for all the bullet time stuff, and it really showed. I can't even count how many times that I realized that I was looking at a cartoon version of the character... very not slick use of CG. There was a ton of "filler" scenes in there, in my opinion. Felt like I paid $8 to watch a commercial for the last episode. Oh well, sequels are rarely what the first one was... and Reloaded is no exception.

Oh, hello again!

[aneblett 0]

My feeling was similar from watching the teaser... In fact my comment as soon as I got out was.

"Matrix Revolutions aka. Neo vs. Smith"

Age

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[billvon 2,463]

>Am I the only one that thought this movie was kinda cheap??

It was by definition far from cheap. I've heard this a lot; I think the reasons are:

-TWO CGI companies went bankrupt trying to generate the effects; there were a lot of personnel changes because of the difficulties doing the CGI

-The middle of any trilogy leaves stuff off the end (by neccessity)

-No movie could possibly have exceeded the expectations for the 'matrix' sequel

-We perceive unrealistic scenes as CGI even when they're not. In many of the multiple-Smith scenes, you're seeing the actual actor, not a CG double. It's edited to appear to have a large number of them, so it looks so unrealistic that, at first glance, it seems to be all CG.

[DJL 232]

Ok, I'm not going to read the four pages of this but because all I have to say is:

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT CLUB ZION SCENE?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[aneblett 0]

not 100% sure myself as yet. Maybe significant, maybe not. could be to show how primitive humans have become could be just good old fashioned T & A



Age

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[adamT 0]

I don't know but that was the only part of the movie that i really didn't like. It felt so forced and out of place. The matrix didn't need a love/rave sceen. It could of been a standard 2 hour movie with out it. But they had to push that crap in there and make it 2 hours 20. blah.

[Zenister 0]

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WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT CLUB ZION SCENE?

i think there was a good bit more back ground that was meant to occur in and around that scene but was cut due to time constraints..after all they arent about to leave any of the multi million dollar CGI footage on the floor...

i was pretty annoyed with the CGI stuff on a regular basis..there were far to many scenes where it was obvious that it wasnt the actor (facial features far to cartoonish and not even a good cartoon version)...particularly in the action sequences...

i think we could have gotten alot more out of it if it was less edited..thank goodness for DVD releases..hopefully they do it justice there..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[aneblett 0]

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Oh well, sequels are rarely what the first one was... and Reloaded is no exception.

Yes, agreed, as it is very hard to make the public forget the new concepts you came up with for the first movie so you can dazzle them with them again in the second, or third, or fourth....

AGe

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[SkyOCiel 0]

Well ,
i would have to agree with adam, i don't think the scene was necessary but it didn't really bother me much.
what i liked was when Neo was flying and destroying everything on its path...
and the french swearing was really cool....
especially if you understood it (i don't understand why they didn't put a subtitle for it)

S-

[FallingILweenie 0]

i was discussing the movie with a friend and what i thought was lacking in the sequel that made the original so stylish and fun were the little details.

for example in the first one, agents are feared and everyone has to run from them. Morpheus gets his ass handed to him by agent smith, and neo only is able to get the upper hand at the end. i know in the second one neo is able to kick everyone's ass, but trinity and morpheus hold their own quite well against "upgrades" which i think trivialized the agents' role in the whole thing. also it was missing the stylish touches such as in the first one the sequence where they all go into the matrix and it shows them on the chairs as it rotates around the room and eventually ends up with all of them in the matrix looking bad ass. something else i always liked about the first one was the urgency to get to the exits, and there was none of that in reloaded--even on the freeway, where it was supposedly difficult, they never show them getting to the exit, but instead take it as a given.
i think that they tried a tad too hard to live up to the first one, and as a result overdid what was popular in the first one but left out the polish and small nuances that made watching the first movie such a complete experience.

[Trent 0]

I think I can tell the difference between a CG person and the actor, especially when it's as poorly done as Reloaded. Just a few examples: Agent jumping on the hood of the car, Neo fighting multiple Smiths when he gets to doing the impossible stuff, some of the flying scenes, and there's more... but I was falling in and out of sleep so I can't remember.

I think they just got too ambitious with the CG, and it looked it. They coulda just made the whole movie CG and not paid any actors. Maybe?

Oh, hello again!

[Gress 0]

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but I was falling in and out of sleep so I can't remember.

Had the same problem when I watched this movie the other day.. I found it boring, the story feels, just like someone said earlier, like a 15 minute tale stretched into 2 hours.. And what's up with the last flying scene where Neo catches Trinity... Wouldn't the acceleration hurt her far more than hitting the ground?

[skreamer 1]

The fight scene with Smith(s) carried on way too long, too WWF like - looked like a computer game not a movie. In some parts the dialogue was really drawn out without contributing to the movie. The special effects were better done in the first movie (without being overdone). Overall, quite disappointing - screw Revolutions I'm holding out for LOTR3!

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Not as good as I hoped. Looked like they've gone to far down the CGI route, and story wasn't a good as the first one. At least there was Ducatis in it

Bring on T3

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[FliegendeWolf 0]

I agree about the rave scene - I didn't like it at all. Not that I have a problem with sweaty, writhing bodies and gratuitous boobie shots, but I like for there to be some reason for it, which there didn't seem to be. I agree with Push, by the way, I think that Trinity and Neo conceived in that scene - would be the only reason to spend so much time on it.

Did anybody notice that the Matrix trilogy seems to be working sort of like the first Star Wars trilogy? First movie ends with a victorious battle and celebration; second movie ends on a real downer as the main character learns something really bad from the head enemy?

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[FallingILweenie 0]

i personally think T3 is going to blow. i mean, linda hamilton wouldnt do it, and what else is she going to do?

[Zenister 0]

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Did anybody notice that the Matrix trilogy seems to be working sort of like the first Star Wars trilogy?

well they are trying to play off (and expand) the same mythic cycle so..
unfortunately were Empire Strikes Back is argueable the best of the series i think Reloaded is probably going to be the worst.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[bch7773 0]

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And what's up with the last flying scene where Neo catches Trinity... Wouldn't the acceleration hurt her far more than hitting the ground?

I never even thought of it that way... but you're right... I mean, Neo would be hitting her at like terminal... maybe we could get Neo out to the DZ... we wouldn't have to wear parachutes... just get Neo to catch us

A problem I found with the movie is after Neo catches Trinity and takes the bullet out of her, magically she gets all better... I hate to say it, but I don't think taking the bullet out of the big hole it made is gonna save your life... there would still be massive bleeding.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Zenister 0]

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there would still be massive bleeding.

only in the 'real world' people seem to forget (and Neo hasnt realized it yet) that inside the matrix (and possibly outside as well to a limited extent) Neo can bend the local reality to his will..

you only die in the matrix because your mind believes you do.. there is no physical damage to your body since it doesnt exist.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[KawiZX900 0]

whats up with Neo being the 6th reset button. dudes an agent smith himself, with the possibility of becoming a jedi for good not evil?

Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky

[FallingILweenie 0]

there is physical damage--in the first matrix, when he gets beat up by smith, and when he misses the jump, he coughs up blood.

as far as the whole bit about there beeing 6 zions, 6 neos, and the rest of it, i gathered that each neo is an anomaly that could potentially crash the entire system, killing all humans both plugged in and in zion, and therefore a lot of the machine race. to try and correct this, the machines "let" the one into the source each time so that they can learn to correct the anomaly a little bit at a time, until they get it right. then they rebuild zion and the matrix so that an new "one" can emerge (from the freedom fighters in zion) which in turn lets them learn more about the anomaly and thus get closer to correcting it. and this cycle would be repeated until they find the cure to the anomaly, thus eliminating the need for zion. that's what i gathered from the architect's speech, anyway.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

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i mean, linda hamilton wouldnt do it

She had her reasons though

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[Zenister 0]

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there is physical damage--in the first matrix, when he gets beat up by smith, and when he misses the jump, he coughs up blood.

is that actual physical damage? or psychologically induced physical symptoms? how can mental images create physical damage? do you die when you "go in" in a dream of falling? In the matrix obviously they do, because thier minds expect it to be real.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

hopefully everyone reading this has seen the movie by now, so for discussion purposes here is the Architect scene..

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From http://www.leesmovieinfo.net/special/MatrixReloadedSpeech1.php

*****

The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*
(Neo1980: I don't agree with whoever wrote this, I think that the monitors are showing Neo's possible answers, possible hinting that there are alternatives to his actions and hence the choice issue comes up. Also, the camera zooms in on Neo's current response, showing the choice made.)

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****."*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bull****!"*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo's dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[fungi3001 0]

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Ok, I'm not going to read the four pages of this but because all I have to say is:

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT CLUB ZION SCENE?

the club zion scene was an excuse to shows girls in see thru tops with out bras and it just was kinda cool but it had nor real purpose - also did anyone notice how badly trinity was done when she was falling from eth building - the CGI made her look really old and wrinkly