Tandem Procedures

[Blahr 0]

I'm curious.
When I did my first Tandem jump in 1989 it was the common practice at that DZ for the passenger to aid in the steering and landing. My assumption was that that was the way its done. All other tandems I watched at that DZ over the next few years always had the passenger helping out.

I was at Crosskeys yesterday and all the tandems I saw coming in had the passenger just hanging there doing nothing and the TM's visibly working hard to do all the steering themselves. In one case, the guy was practically standing on the toggles with his arms like he was on the rings for gymnastics. If its that hard to manage alone, why arent those passengers helping?

[jlmiracle 7]

At my dz, most of the TM fly the canopy and flare the canopy themselves because they can and don't want the passenger to turn them into the ground, because sometimes they (the passengers) get excited and do stuff.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[AggieDave 6]

Its up to the TM.

Personally, unless I'm doing a Cat A or Cat B dive with a student, I steer. If they're steering, I've got my hands in the toggles too (long toggles, for 2 ppl).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

I forgot to say, I'm at an advantage over some TMs, though, I'm very strong and I have no problem pulling the toggles with flair toggles all the way down.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bclark 0]

I let my students help me fly down to 1000'. I very rarely allow a student to help me land. Landing is the one time where an uncooperative or brainlocked student can hurt you. We use Strong gear w/SET 400's and I can fly them all the way down by myself w/no problems, even with big students.

[PhillyKev 0]

When I did mine, they had me stear and practice flare up high, but when it came time to land, they took care of it. At least on the first one. I think I helped flare on the last of 3 after I told them I was going to get licensed.

For the majority of people, it's a one time carnival ride. Why bother trying to teach them if they just want a thrill?

[txblondie 0]

When I did my first tandem, I was allowed to steer (a little) in the air, but told to let go when we were going to land. When I did my second tandem, as a training jump, I helped steer and flare. Whether that's because it was a training jump or what, I don't know, but I have seen it both ways, and I've only been around for 3-1/2 months.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[Blahr 0]

mmm, they used Vector tandem rigs where I went and those has 2 sets of toggles. I think. It WAS 14 years ago
but I'm sure they had 2 sets.

I can certainly understand not wanting the passenger to do something to hose the landing...

[JeffD 0]

Heh I wanted the TM to do some spirals or something but I was in more pain than anything. He had me grab the toggles but I was hurting too much to turn.

*I was 6'2" 250-260lbs and wearing a tight jumpsuit. My chest strap was loose b/c I put it on myself and the TM didn't check it. So when we opend the canopy started to open and I had a short time until the canopy snapped the chest strap onto my chest which left bruises for a week. basically like a hard opening.

[AggieDave 6]

Yeah, they do. I didn't say they didn't.

The main toggles (steering toggles) are longer with two loops in them so a student can have the bottom loop (which is easier to reach for them too) and the TM can have the top loop. The 2nd set of toggles are the flair toggles, which is a second set of brakes on on the inside of the trailing edge in relation to the steering toggles. They are used for landing in conjunction with the steering toggles.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[freeflyfrog 0]

With first time jumpers, I personally prefer to do the flare myself. I can ensure a more consistent landing each time if I go it alone.

If they come back for more jumps, then I will teach them the finer points of flaring.

[TEB6363 0]

I usually have them help if we're jumping the 400+ canopies (what can I say, I'm lazy)

We have a bunch of 330's and a couple of 365's at the DZ. They are easy to steer and flare and fast enough that I don't want a student "helping" me at the wrong time.

Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

[skybeergodd 0]

I let my students help fly the canopy until I start my landing pattern. If they are a first time jumper then I do the landing pattern and landing myself. If they are going thru the tandem progression into the AFF program then I let them help with the landing pattern on their third jump but we practice the landing and flare 3 times above 2000' and if they don't respond correctly in the practice then I do the landing myself.

[cindee 0]

My TM let me steer and flare on the tandem we did right before the AFP 1. It wasn't the best landing.

__________________________________________________
"If happy little bluebirds fly above the rainbow, why oh why can't I?"

[slotperfect 7]

We primarily jump PD Sigma 370s at Raeford, which have light toggle pressure.

My personal rule of thumb is 170 lbs and below, I handle the flare. Above 170 lbs, I have them help me.

If they are helping me, right before one of our practice flares I push the toggles (and their Hands) to the guide rings and tell them "that's what full-flight feels like."

At the full flight position, I lock my thumbs around the rear risers to prevent the student pulling down the toggles prematurely.

My hands are IN the secondary toggles and ON TOP OF the primary toggles. The student has whichever of the two loops is appropriate for their arm length.

The one exception to my rule of thumb is when I have a heavy passenger that does not have the strength in their abdominals and hip-flexors to keep their legs up for the landing. In this case, since their hands are busy in the toggles helping me, I have them put their feet on top of mine. I then spread my legs wide and lift up with them, insuring their legs stay raised.

I know many Tandem Instructors that never let their students flare with them, and I know many that always have them help. It's really a personal choice, and their are many strong opinions for either side. The key is to be good at doing either one so you are going to safely and successfully bring the student to the ground no matter what.

Arrive Safely

John

[douwanto 22]

I will ask the passenger what they want to do.
IT THEY WANT TO FLY THE CANOPY AND HELP LAND i WILL LET THEM. I make my mind up above 1500 as to weather they are responding to my commands.
I will have them remove their hands if they aren't heads up.
I can and will land them up to 300lbs by myself but I like to involve the passenger when possible if they want.
M2C


Chris

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[TEB6363 0]

Quote

The key is to be good at doing either one so you are going to safely and successfully bring the student to the ground no matter what.

Amen...

Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Students here all get to "steer" and help land if they want to, unless they are not responding to commands. Either way, my hands are firs in the bottom rungs of the tggles to unstow the brakes. I then pull the bottom rungs down in front of the passenger and say "put your hands in here like me." Once they have the lower rung, I put my hands through the flare toggles and then put my hands over the top of the toggles with the control line coming up between my four fingers. I have much more control over the entire parachute that way and I have never been "over-controlled" by a student since I have done it that way. Paul Rafferty taught me that technique and if it worked for him, I figured it was good to go. Before that, I was taught another method which actually gives the student under anything other than a Sigma or an Icarus much-less control. I simply let them hold the flare toggles and mirrored what they did with my hands over the top of the regular toggles, which were strictly in my hands. All was well until the day a 240 pound guy "flared" too soon and too hard with the flare toggles, thus dumping us both on my ass, him on top of me. Nowadays with Sigma mains, and an Icarus 360 I have in a spare rig, I never, ever NEED any help to land anyone, but I still give them the toggles for at least down to just under 1000 feet. At that point, I take full control when the passenger indicates that they don't want to assist. Either way works for me.

Chuck