Police shooting in Louisana

[miked10270 0]

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17 years in the British police force? "Stop and put down that gun or I'll say stop again!!"

Actually, once it was "So if I don't get out of the way, whatt're you gonna do? Shoot me? Put the F*ckin' thing down before my 27 psychotic mates with machine guns get here & turn you into a doily!"

Personally I like being unarmed, and I have "seen the Elephant" as our (military) friends across the English Ocean would say. The armed creiminal will react in a definite way when faced by an armed cop, but an unarmed adversary can really fuck with the "High Noon" scenario that's playing out in his mind.

Incidentally (& one of the reasons that this incident sticks in my mind), what would you give to an unarmed cop who faced down a robber with a sawn-off shotgun (& came out with the perp in one hand & the gun on the other)?

A) Knighthood?

B) Promotion?

C) Medal?

D) congratulations?

E) Bollocking for being there in the first place & not running like fuck at the first sign of trouble and allowing a professional negotiator to be called to resolve the situation?


Not that I'm bitter... Really I'm not... Every time I start to feel bitter I go & tapdance on me ex boss's grave.


Incidentally, I scored this incident as a justified shoot because:

1. I can confirm that there are firearms disguised as cell phones. There's one very natty one ( I think it's made in Bulgaria - or similar) that's a dead ringer for the old Motorola "flip" phone... But it's a 5-shot .32" automatic! Pull the aerial off, hold dowm the "*" key and squeeze off with the "power" button. From the looks of the perp's phone, the way he was holding it, and his body language... If I'd been there & armed, I'd have emptied my weapon into him. If I'd been there and(being a cop in a civilized country) unarmed, I'd have been the one cowering behind the car lobbing bricks at him .

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[skycop 0]

I finally saw the video, definitely justified. Some tactical mistakes were made BUT, these kinds of situations are almost never tactically perfect.
The bottom line is, this dude would be alive today if it weren't for his own actions.
Simply put, even partial compliance by the bad guy and this situation ends VERY different.
Street level police work as it regards to use of force, is very seldom pretty or easy to watch.
As skydivers we hate the way whuffo's judge skydiving.
In that context at least give the benefit of the doubt to the officers.
Blue Skies (and I'm done with this thread)

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Jib 0]

Did anyone notice that the guy got shot at twice. You can see in the Car 170 (23:53-ish) video that two shots are fired as the guy pulls away from the cop and then when he turns, he gets shot by both cops. The new link is http://www.shreveporttimes.com/policeshootingarchive/

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

You are right. I actually read the articles. The first time he pointed the (phone) the first officer shot him twice in the arm... thats why you see his left arm hang down. After he pointed the (phone) the second time the other officer sees the threat and they both start shooting.

They fired 15 total shots, and hit him with 8. The DA has ruled it a justified homicide, and the police chief labeled it as suicide by cop.

[SadSue 0]

Blue, I watched that video 50 times if i've watched it once. I think the whole thing was handeled very badly and I really see no reason why the guy was shot multiple times, when a singlegunshot to the leg would have dropped him to the floor. A little brain power goes a long way. What's the point of shooting the guy numerous times... It scares me that people can watch this video and consider it a justified shooting. I have even showed this video to some of my pals who are cops and they were gobsmacked. I mean its obvious to me that that is excessive force. The first cop to shoot was on a power trip. I saw that as he exited the car and lunged forward. When he didnt catch him he resorted to his gun! Any half baked idiot could have controled that situation with a tackle. Thats my take and I don't doubt there are many of you that disagree.
But I express my views without apology.
Thank you for reading.

Hope you don't get Banned!

[PhillyKev 0]

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I think the whole thing was handeled very badly and I really see no reason why the guy was shot multiple times, when a singlegunshot to the leg would have dropped him to the floor.

Please read the previous threads that explain this...I'll summarize:

a) The purpose of shooting someone is to stop them from killing you. A single shot will usually not stop them. A shot to the leg is not going to keep him from returning fire. The only way to stop him is to cause enough physical trauma as to completely incapacitate him. Not to mention it is nearly impossible to aim a shot at someone's moving leg with a hand gun in a high stress situation. No police force policy or training (and no civilian training for that matter) ever tells you to shoot to the leg or wound someone. If you're going to shoot someone, shoot to kill.

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What's the point of shooting the guy numerous times

Because he was still capable of returning fire. You shoot until your life is no longer in danger.

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Any half baked idiot could have controled that situation with a tackle.

You go ahead and tackle someone with a gun and let me know how it works out for you.

[Guest]

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Chris Rock did an instructional video on how not to get shot by the cops and I think this incident would of been adverted if the guy had only seen that video.

I saw that Chris Rock video. It was painfully funny, but so true.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

Well said. Thank you PhillyKev.

[Jib 0]

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I have even showed this video to some of my pals who are cops and they were gobsmacked.

Really, which video did you show them?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[fundgh 0]

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the police chief labeled it as suicide by cop

I have to agree. When I saw this video, I thought that the guy wanted to be assaulted. Justified, yes. Sad, yes. Hard to watch, definately. I think the people that say this is unjustified, just don't like to see one human kill another.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[skreamer 1]

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If you think it makes any difference, I retired from the NYPD after 16 years on the midnight shift in Harlem. He's right!

Obviously he is right. If you read my first post to this thread you would see that I agree with him. I was making an obvious (I thought) joke about the fact that British police regularly patrol without firearms, hence the "Stop or I'll say stop again" reference.

It was a joke and Mike took it as such, not a dig at the British police force at all.

[SadSue 0]

Jib I sent them the link, same ones we all saw from 3 seperate angles!

Hope you don't get Banned!

[skycop 0]

Thought I was done but

Phillykev is correct except, it's shot to stop, not shoot to kill.
It's to stop the suspects actions, not to kill him/her. If they die in the process then, that's why it's called deadly force!

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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I have even showed this video to some of my pals who are cops and they were gobsmacked.

A.) I don't believe a police officer would look at that video and not agree lethal force was necessary.

That would be like you or I looking at a video of a jumper under a stiletto with a dozen line twist spinning to the ground.... and saying the jumper should kick out and not pull the silver handle.

B.) Any police officer that uses lethal weapon (gun) as a non-lethal alternative (shooting for an arm) will violate training/policy, and possibly the law. If non lethal means are adequate to solve a situation, then only non-lethal defensive measures can be used.

C.) Any police officer that does not have the gonads to used lethal force when faced with a lethal threat needs to find a different job.

These officers followed their training, the DA, and the Police Chief agreed the shooting was justified. But, you are entitled to your opinion however incorrect in this situation it has proven to be.

[SadSue 0]

You know what, I find it rather bias that you tell me this has be proven. Who is the governing body that has proven it> Internal affairs.. district attorney, FBI??? which????? I doubt there was a public investigation, although i may be wrong... please feel free to correct me.But in my humble opinion, as a civilan any internal investigation of this nature is always rule in favour of the cops. It requires public outrage to get a outside body to investigate. It's unlikly this happened because of the location.

And on how you feel about my saying my cop friends have viewed the video and thought it was completely out of order. I have no reason to lie, why would I? I'm very happy to back up my own arguments and I think your comparison is totally irrelevant
I just have friends who can think on their feet and have a open mind and do not buckle under pressure, which I thought was a requirement for the police force.

Your entitled to you opinon also, but in my view two wrongs do not make a right, It's upsetting to know that this shit goes unchecked.

In any case, I remain un apologetic and I am standing my ground on this one.

Have a nice day!!

Hope you don't get Banned!

[TheAnvil 0]

What gets me about this whole incident and others which are similar is the lack of any real leadership from the side of those who play the race card in incidents such as this. From this incident all the way up north the the recent riots in Michigan, to the riots in Cincinnatti. The lack of true leadership is always there.

From the race baiters we hear 'he was only shot because he was black/hispanic' or 'the white cops chased after him and shot him' or 'they're out to get black/hispanic people.' Bullshit.

A LEADER would go into schools, churches, and other locations in these communities and use the shootings as an example to prevent future incidents. Those we hear playing the race card are not leaders - they are politicians/deadbeats looking for a handout or a podium to spew their vitriolic hate.

A speech for one of these forums might be as follows:

This is Joe Schmuckatelly who broke the law and ran from the cops. He is dead and his family is in tears. He is dead because he made choices. He chose to break the law. He chose to run from the police. You kids can choose too. What choice will you make? Do you want to die? Do you want to make your mother cry? If not, make the right choice. Do what the police tell you. Don't break the law. Work hard, stay in school, blah blah blah blah.

That's not what we hear from these race baiting buffoons - ever. BlueEyedMonster has the situation nailed. That guy chose to get drunk, he chose to run from the police, he chose to put others in danger, and he chose to whip out his cell phone like he did. His color had nothing to do with those choices, nor did the color of the cops who shot his dumb ass. Kudos to the cops and pshaw to their detractors.

Beers,

TheAnvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[LadySkyDIve 0]

I agree. Life is about the choices we make and then taking dealing with the consequences of making those choices.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

Hi SadSue,

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You know what, I find it rather bias that you tell me this has be proven. Who is the governing body that has proven it> Internal affairs.. district attorney, FBI??? which????? I doubt there was a public investigation, although i may be wrong... please feel free to correct me.

You stand corrected As I wrote in a previous post... I actually read the newspaper articles that accompanied the videos. There was an investigation. The DA ruled it a justified homicide. Where I come from, the DA is an elected official, not an agent of the law enforcement establishment. The Police Chief stated it was a "Suicide by Cop." If that is not public enough, the evidence (videos) was released to the public. If you look at the poll, at least the public here agrees with the DA.

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And on how you feel about my saying my cop friends have viewed the video and thought it was completely out of order.

I don't know you or your police friends. I have never had the opportunity to establish a trustful relationship with any of you. I do know my mother, a police officer, DARE Officer, and expert in domestic abuse. I also know my step-father, a Sergeant for the county police, Range Officer, SWAT team member, and Firearms Training Officer; and all their friends and co-workers that I learned from and respected. For this reason, and from the training that I have received, I know those police officers did exactly what they were trained to do. Therefore, when given an opinion that directly contradicts all that I know about this type of situation, I am going to go with the people I trust.

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I'm very happy to back up my own arguments

Please do so. I love debating subjects like this because I learn facts. You have yet to present any hard facts that these officers failed to follow training, or that the training was flawed. You have stated your opinions, what if's, and unfeasible solutions (Tackling a non-cooperative person possibly armed with a gun, is a downright suicidal idea.) I am only persuaded by facts. Please present me with defendable, un-deniable facts.

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I just have friends who can think on their feet and have a open mind and do not buckle under pressure

The police officers in the video have exactly these qualities your friends have. They performed exactly as they were trained to in a split-second, life and death situation that many people would have buckled.

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It's upsetting to know that this shit goes unchecked.

It did not go unchecked... it got plenty of news coverage, it was investigated internally by the Police Dept, and was investigated by an elected official (DA).

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In any case, I remain un apologetic and I am standing my ground on this one.

I seriously respect your emotion, and hopefulness that this could have been handled another way. I agree that everything should be questioned. Without that self-examination, a better solution will never be found. But in this case, I cannot go with emotion and hope. I am going with training, facts, and the belief that those officers (based on the video) felt their lives were in danger and my knowledge that they followed their training.

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Have a nice day!!

You too... I'm anxiously awaiting your facts.
--Jason

[SadSue 0]

this video would not have gotten the Internet wide attention if had been routine; clearly this video is disturbing enough to have been isolated and released.

The cold hard fact of the matter is follows: this would have NEVER happened in Seattel, San Francisco, or anywhere in Canada, i.e. anywhere where ENLIGHTENED law enforcement occurs. To say "they followed training" as if that somehow justifies it; I mean, so did concentration camp guards. That sort of inane thinking is the root of a bullshit corrupt system where "orders" must be obeyed at all times...no matter how wrong they are. Saywhat you will, if this case were not such an egregious and obvious violation of police norms this video wouldnot have gotten the hype that it has. All across America people are saying..."well, of COURSE it happned in Louisiana, what did you EXPECT from people down there?" because they realize how out of step this kind of action is with the norms of their OWN police departments.....an enlightened force could use non lethal methods such as spray, foam or even rubber bullets to subdue a "perceived" threat, but in the good ol' South where niggers are only fit to be hung from trees this is the only kind of justice they see fit to meet out, period.

So fuck those bastards, I might just PERSONALLY go down to my local FBI office and ask for civil rights charges to be pressed...I live in San Francisco, don't think they won't take me seriously...here they actually CARE about people...the rest of you live notin Northern California, but in....my condolences...uh...America, where freedom and hypocrisy but-fuck each other nightly.

Still have a nice day!!!!

Hope you don't get Banned!

[LouDiamond 1]

AWWWW, come on sadsue, don't hold back, tell us what you really think. I'll say it because I think it's a fitting reply to your statement. If you don't like America then leave. There are no Visas required to leave and I'm sure one of those "other" countries where they have "enlightened" police would welcome you with their bleeding heart arms wide open.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[SadSue 0]

don't worry, I'm ALREADY in that country...it's called NORTHERN CALIFORNIA....the only TRUE expression of what America is really about....the only place in the US that REALLY lives up to the glorious ideals provided in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution....Lousiana can go fuck itself.

Hope you don't get Banned!

[LouDiamond 1]

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don't worry, I'm ALREADY in that country...it's called NORTHERN CALIFORNIA....the only TRUE expression of what America is really about....the only place in the US that REALLY lives up to the glorious ideals provided in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution....Lousiana can go fuck itself.

ROTFLMAO!!!!! Are you serious or have you forgotten to take your medication today?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[thethinker 0]

whoa there smart ass...they've got a heated debate goin and u gotta jump in with a bull shit remark liek that. She wasn't saying she hated America ya bint, or else i reckon shed of done left by now. Useless prat.

We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.
-Johann von Goethe

[SadSue 0]

Lou

The purpose of the forum is to express one's self. Are you asking me to tone it down?

Hope you don't get Banned!

[juanesky 0]

It seems that you are the closest to the truth here. I came accross this interesting posting, that rather seems to be divisive despite some obvious facts.

The guy is running after a being pulled or did something he was not supposed to do.

The video is at night, let alone we do not see how long the persecution has taken (the dumbass could have been trying to evade them for 20 miles for what we know).

Of course, we are watching pic by pic, very comfortable in our home, being able to disect the whole action in a rather very comfortable position.

Imagine this, we come home after a great skydiving day, we take a shower, and hit this site, and hear someone had an accident for failing to cut away soon or not, we can think the right way or the right course of action in a calmed place...This is what the police are going through, at night, in a rush.....Of course we are here in bed, table, whatever reading the event and have plenty of time to analyze the situation......

The suspect does really look like a drug dealer for the way he is dressed up (no, I am not prejudiced about race, but if you are on the street, with a beard, no shower and prison robes, then you should be someone just escaping from jail) like a bad ass boy from the hood with my pants down showing off my underwear type of person.....


I would definitely shoot first and ask questions later....particulary if you are pointed something at me, or just moved suspiciously......

just my .02....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon