Re-use lost freebag?

[baronn 111]

Found a missing freebag in the corn. It was out there for about 2.5 months. It was buried in the corn and after many trips looking for it, was never found. I was riding in the harvester and we found it that way. Had some dirt on it but, no discoloring. A wash in mild soap and it looks no worse for the wear. The question is: test (pull) and reuse or don't take a chance. Again, it was not in the sun. Got wet maybe 2x. Any and all input will be helpful. Thanx

[irishrigger 31]

give it to your rigger and have him inspect it. its hard to say without looking at it, but i have used a free bag that that was missing 2-3 months.
so i keep my fingers crossed that you will have a spare one for the next time
rodger

[RIGGER 0]

2.5 month exposed to outdoor condition even found inside the corn IMO is too much for a "Safety Item" like a free bag & reserve p/c.

IMO buy a new kit & remove any concerns from your head.

Be Safe !!!

[RIGGER 0]

IMO the answer you gave him is wrong.

IMO after so long time outside a new kit should be used.

There are more factors to consider & not how the item looks only.

Cheers

[ripcord4 0]

Toss it - it's not worth the risk. This is last-chance gear you are talking about.

[irishrigger 31]

hi Shlamo,
i have used freebags that have been lost for some time. mine included after 4 months. it fell between some trees and had no exposure to sunlight.and it has worked 3 time since!
i had no damage on mine there was no rust on the spring or any mould or damage on the bridle or freebag.it did get wet but after i dried it out is was as good as new and i was very happy to put it back in my rig.
on another one i just replaced the grommets and free stow,every thing else was fine. and that also has worked since.
now i havent seen or inspected this free bag that this guy has, thats why i said to give it to his rigger for inspection. he might well decide to bin it, all i am saying i would not throw it away until a rigger has a look at it.
rodger

[RIGGER 0]

Thanks for your post.

Any free bag / reserve p/c out in outdoor conditions for so long time should be removed from service.

Working fine does not mean it is Airworthy as it should & could be an issue at low altitude cutaway.

Money "Saving" does not worth the RISK !!!

We should educate skydivers to know when "let go" out of service & replaced.

Did you ever ask the items Mfg. about an opinion ?

Cheers

Shlomo

[baronn 111]

Upon closer inspection, there is a small seperation of the fabric near the base on the P/C. Good ornament. The bag and bridle are in great shape and will be saved for future use. The entire bridle passed a 50# pull test and the bag is still like new. I agree it is not worth saving a buck. New P/C for sure. Thanx for the input all.

[irishrigger 31]

Hi Shlomo,

sorry i misspelled your name the first time.
yes i consulted the manufacturer, and all that was said,if i was happy enough with the condition of it i could put it back in service. and i think it is perfectly airworthy!
i have had 3 cutaways on this freebag now and have no issue with it. it works as good as a new one. (incase your wondering i did not pack any of those! darn packers
i deemed it to be airworthy and i am happy with it. rest assured i am not risking my life just to save a few bucks. life is worth a lot more than that!
you mentioned that it might cause a problem with a low cutaway,i will grant you that i havent had that yet. but my cutaways on this freebag and RPC i would have no hesitation in doing that if i had to. however i do always keep my eye open for traffic to avaoid a canopy collision close to the ground also i do have a skyhook incase that happens
however i would like to hear what issues do you think would lead to a problem. do you think the material was weekend? the spring lost some of its power?
rodger

[irishrigger 31]

Quote

Upon closer inspection, there is a small seperation of the fabric near the base on the P/C. Good ornament. The bag and bridle are in great shape and will be saved for future use. The entire bridle passed a 50# pull test and the bag is still like new. I agree it is not worth saving a buck. New P/C for sure. Thanx for the input all.

hi Baronn,
good to hear that you did a finer inspection of the RPC and found that damage.as you can see from the post above, there is a divided opinion on this.
withthe pull test done at least you have a spare freebag. get the new spring and you have a spare.
but i hope at the end of the day that you will not have another mal or loose a freebag again
i know that is a real pain in the backside
safe jumping
rodger

[spootch 0]

Could you please explain how you have come to the "out door time frame" to determine something to be airworthy?

[RIGGER 0]

There is no time frame but a PRO logic.

I had a case that a skydiver cutaway, lost his f/b & p/c which were found 3 days letter on the ground in dust / sun (UV) conditions - looks great BUT 3 days exposed to a strong sun looks too much IMO - I contact the Mfg. & they said the same - 3 days in these conditions is too much & for being on the SAFE side it better be replaced.

There are more points to be considered - Riggers should know that.

Storage conditions indoor & for sure outdoor does effect & no matter if it was between trees or corn or in the shade - it was exposed to UV / Water / Dust / Insects, Agro Poisons & Chemicals.

There is no formula for that but it always should be on the SAFE side.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

[RIGGER 0]

What is a 50 Lb. pull test of the bridle ?

Thanks

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

3 days exposed to a strong sun looks too much to me

That sounds like a lot, a whole 3 days...too much, until you actually take the time (pun intended) to look at that total a bit closer. A half hour total per jump of waiting out in the sun for the plane, the jump itself, and walking back to the hanger is reasonable. Do that several times a day and you very quickly get to 3 days of exposure. Even at 15 minutes per jump you get to 3 days exposure very quickly.

There is a rig that has the freebag exposed, not under any flaps. Perhaps they should be limited to just a few days of sun exposure before the freebag should be replaced, to be on the safe side?

There are rigs with exposed/partially exposed reserve pilot chutes that have a bit of the pilot chute fabric sneaking out where it shouldn't - exposed to the sun. Should those be limited to a 3 day exposure?

3 days exposure is not much at all.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[RIGGER 0]

3 FULL days of full exposure to direct strong sun is too much IMO & in the specific MFG. opinion which I asked for.

Who said that all you said should not be eliminated by education & system care ? If your p/c fabric is exposed for low level rigging it does get damaged with time or could be snaged as well.

Systems exposed to Sun / UV for a long time at the boarding area will get sun damage faster all around = exposed containers fabric & exposed webbing.

Free Bag & Reserve P/C are too critical just to let go after being outdoor for a long time or a shorter time in extreme conditions - some riggers might think different & some riggers might think the same I do.

Be Safe !!!

[monkycndo 0]

What about the Seven container where the free bag is partially exposed by design?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[RIGGER 0]

That's the way it was made.

Cheers

[diablopilot 2]

Shlomo, you do remember that the job, training, and responsibility of a rigger is to determine the airworthyness of the equipment, right?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Scrumpot 1]

Stuck in the dirt, especially the potentially fertilizer and chemical(s) rich/saturated dirt of a corn field for an extended period - even if it could be washed to "look good", I would toss it. Remember too, that when these are packed, they are then sealed inside your (reserve) container then, also then putting this in constant contact with your reserve canopy and the most key/core components to your H/C. Seriously - for a couple of thinking to be potential $$ savings (which could actually turn out over TIME to be quite the exact opposite!) - you really want to risk that?

Don't even give it a second thought at this point.
Toss it.
Period.

My .02

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[RIGGER 0]

Yes Sir !

I saw, found & was informed by Mfg. on systems were called Airworthy by "Riggers" & should be grounded.

Also to educate skydivers regarding the right & wise way to take care of the system they jump & to be always on the most SAFE side & when "money Saving" might cost much more.

Be Safe !!!

[RIGGER 0]

Well said.

Cheers

[crapflinger2000 1]

Not meaning to pick on you or anything but it is a good example of the "sample size of 1" issue I saw both in rigging and in other aspects of the sport...

True, you re-used a freebag that had been lost out in the boondocks for some time and it has functioned perfectly for you. Great!

However, IMO that one experience of yours is not enough to make a blanket determination that "lost freebag + no sunlight = OK to use".

I've heard stories of freebags landing in agricultural areas and when found a mere couple days later were totally destroyed from pesticides and what-not they were exposed to. This would lead me to believe that exposure to such chemicals might also have some intermediate weakening effect on the freebag/bridle/PC not immediately visible (or in fact immediately manifested).

When I was a rigger I had a fairly hard-fast rule about found freebags... if you don't find it by next day, stop looking cuz we are ordering you a new one.

Other "sample size of 1" issues that used to drive me crazy were things like "well John Smith BASE jumped with only 50 skydives and HE lived!", and "I don't worry about my PC de-cocking a bit cuz Susan completely forgot to do it and her main just took a bit longer to open" and on and on and on.

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[irishrigger 31]

hi crapfinger,
dont worry about picking on someone, this thread is here for discussion,to learn and to get help on rigging matters.
yes i was very lucky with my freebag, and yes it is a rare occurance that i could still use it.
i never said that all freebags can be used after being missing a long period. the point i was making was there might be an exception,like my freebag. i have binned freebags and RPC that have been found 1-2-3 days after a cutaway! so this is not a thing i do everytime. it will depend on the condition when i inspect it. if i have any doubt i will bin it on the spot,by cutting the bridle if i deem it to be unairworthy. it all depends on the enviroment where it landed. mine was free of bugs and any chemicals etc etc, it was not even dirty, much to my suprise i would make a bet with you right now, that if i gave my rig to you for a repack, you would not notice anything about the freebag and RPC, unless i told you about it!
and the only reason it was found was because another guy had a cutaway and the main actually landed right on top of it. the guy went out to retrieve his main as he saw and marked where it landed. i had given up all hope weeks before. so i was pleasantly suprised when the guy cam back and said look what i found
so this is not something i do everytime, my goal is always to make sure that a rig is 100% airworthy, otherwise i will not signed it off. and sofar i have 258 people that are very happy with my reserve packjobs!
the point i was making here have it inspected by a rigger before deciding to dump it, thats all!

[popsjumper 2]

Put me in the "better safe than sorry" camp.
Replace it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[VideoFly 0]

Use it as a teaching aid for students to see and feel what a freebag is. Why even question if it is airworthy and use it? For me, if I have any doubt about equipment, I don’t use it to save my life. Also, if you ever sell your gear, I would not want to buy a rig with a freebag that sat outside for so long. So if you do use it and eventually sell your rig, please state that the freebag sat outside for so long. You might be surprised that the rig doesn’t sell so easily. As we often let others make their own mistakes in this sport, maybe you should be asking “Would you buy and use a rig with a freebag that sat outside in a corn field for 2.5 months?” Even if I bought the rig with the plan to change the freebag, I would worry about any potential contamination within the material leaching into the container’s cloth.