The journalist incident in Iraq

[AggieDave 6]

I'm sure most everyone has heard about this already, but this article really pushed my buttons. Journalists are saying that the US soldiers that accidently killed a cameraman in Iraq did it intentionally.

Intentionally?

Lets see...he was holding a video camera on his shoulder, outside of a military prison in Iraq, where that Sunday they suffered a motor attack that killed 6 prisoners. How were the soldiers supposed to be able to see that the object the cameraman was pointing at the prison was a video camera and not a shoulder fired rocket? I guess the media wants the soldiers to walk up to every single person that looks suspicious and ask them "are you here to attack us?" So he was in civilian clothes, I'm sure that the guerrilla attacks on US troops over the past month have been conducted by persons wearing Iraqi military uniforms, right?

Sure, this is a sad event to have happened, that is a fact, but to say that the US troops killed him on purpose is going way too far. Death and injury is an accepted risk for combat journalists, they know that (and to say that Iraq is not still in a state of combat would be a very naive statement). Also, it would seem that if a journalist was going to be filming a US run prison, in a combat area, especially one that had just experienced a fatal attack the previous Sunday, that the journalist would contact that installation first, to prevent a misunderstanding such as this.


Below is the article I just read that spurred this post. Enjoy.

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Reporters Fault U.S. Troops in Iraq Death




By TAREK AL-ISSAWI
Associated Press Writer

August 18, 2003, 11:12 AM EDT

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Fellow journalists accused U.S. troops of negligence in the shooting death of a Reuters cameraman, saying it was clear the victim was a newsman when soldiers on two tanks opened fire. Press advocacy groups called for an investigation.

Mazen Dana, 43, was shot and killed by U.S. soldiers Sunday while videotaping near a U.S.-run prison on the outskirts of Baghdad. The U.S. Army said its soldiers mistook his camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

Press advocacy groups Reporters Without Borders and the U.S.-based Committee to Protect Journalists demanded a full investigation into the shooting.

Reporters Without Borders urged Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to conduct an "honest, rapid" investigation. The group also noted that there have been isolated cases in which soldiers in Iraq have been hostile to the news media.

"Such behavior is unacceptable and must be punished. It is essential that clear instructions and calls for caution are given to soldiers in the field so that freedom of movement and work of journalists is accepted in Iraq," the group said in a statement.

The film Dana shot showed a tank driving toward him. Six shots were heard, and the camera appeared to tilt forward and drop to the ground after the first shot.

Dana was working outside the Abu Ghraib prison after a mortar attack there Sunday in which six prisoners were killed and about 60 wounded. Witnesses said Dana was dressed in civilian clothes.

"We were all there, for at least half an hour. They knew we were journalists. After they shot Mazen, they aimed their guns at us. I don't think it was accident. They are very tense. They are crazy," said Stephan Breitner of France 2 television.

Breitner said soldiers tried to resuscitate Dana but failed.

A U.S. military official said on condition of anonymity that American soldiers saw Dana from a distance and mistook him for an Iraqi guerrilla, so they opened fire. When the soldiers came closer, they realized Dana was a journalist, the official said.

"This is clearly another tragic incident, it is extremely regrettable," Central Command spokesman Sgt. Maj. Lewis Matson said.

Dana's driver, Munzer Abbas, said Dana had got out of the car when he saw the tanks approaching.

"We saw a tank, 50 meters away. I heard six shots and Mazen fell to the ground. One of the soldiers started shouting at us, but when he knew we were journalists, he softened. One of the soldiers told us they thought Mazen was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade," said Abbas.

"There were many journalists around. They knew we were journalists. This was not an accident," he said.

Reuters quoted soundman Nael al-Shyoukhi, who was with Dana, as saying that the U.S. soldiers "saw us and they knew about our identities and our mission.

"After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters (yards). We were noted and seen clearly," al-Shyoukhi said.

"A soldier on the tank shot at us. I lay on the ground. I heard Mazen and I saw him scream and touching his chest.

"I cried at the soldier, telling him you killed a journalist. They shouted at me and asked me to step back and I said 'I will step back but please help, please help and stop the bleed.'"

He said they tried to help him but Dana was bleeding heavily.

"Mazen took a last breath and died before my eyes."

At the Reuters headquarters in Baghdad, the mood was gloomy, and journalists from different organizations converged to express condolences. Dana's camera lay on the floor in the editing room.

"Mazen was one of Reuters' finest cameramen and we are devastated by his loss. He was a brave and an award winning journalist who had worked in many of the world's hotspots," said Stephen Jukes, Reuters' global head of news, in a statement.

Dana's death brings to 13 the number of journalists who were killed in Iraq since the start of the war on March 20. Two Independent Television News journalists, cameraman Fred Nerac of France and translator Hussein Osman of Lebanon, have been missing since shooting incident March 22 in southern Iraq in which correspondent Terry Lloyd was killed.

An outspoken critic of the Israeli government's treatment of journalists, Dana was honored by the Committee to Protect Journalists with an International Press Freedom Award in November 2001 for his work covering conflict in his hometown of Hebron in the West Bank. He was shot at least three times in 2000, according to the citation on the group's web site.

Dana was married and had four children.

"Words and images are a public trust and for this reason I will continue with my work regardless of the hardships, even if it costs me my life," Dana said after accepting the award.

"He was committed to covering the story wherever it was and he was an inspiration to friends and colleagues at Reuters and throughout the industry," Jukes said.

Abbas, the driver, recalled how Dana was telling al-Shyoukhi of the war stories he had covered over the years.

"He said he wanted to take a shot of the prison from a house with a vantage point. Nael told him to be careful because of the Americans. Mazen said he wasn't too worried as long as they don't shoot him."
Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

http://www.newsday.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=sns-ap-iraq-journalist-killed§ion=%2Fnews%2Fnationworld%2Fworld%2Fwire

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[leroydb 0]

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"There were many journalists around. They knew we were journalists. This was not an accident," he said.

bullshit "cough cough" bullshit... I would have shot him too. Don't point shit at me!

freedom has a taste to those that fight and almost die, that the protected will NEVER know!!!!

Le Roy

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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They are very tense. They are crazy," said Stephan Breitner of France 2 television.

Unbiased reporting? I think not.

[FallRate 0]

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I guess the media wants the soldiers to walk up to every single person that looks suspicious and ask them "are you here to attack us?"

Yes, you are correct...unfortunately. "World Opinion" is at stake. Disregarding the fact that this has been the most humane military action taken in history, many individuals and groups will look to demonize any action taken by the US Military. And many, who claim to have had (solely) the American servicemen and women in mind when they opposed this war, will waste no time in condemning those same individuals when they take the necessary steps to defend themselves.

FallRate

[juanesky 0]

Yep, they certainly will condemn this as a vicious attack on poor innocent journalists wearing a suspicious device....pointed at the tanks.

Well, we just have to wait until the so called pro peace ppl who might say, well, they should have asked first.....Don't forget they are in a hot Zone, if they don't care to tell the troops what they are up too, don't expect them to know when you sneak up on them...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[nigel99 364]

I think you have to put it in perspective. The US is being heavily critised for being far to trigger happy. The BBC reported a few weeks back that they General Sanchez had issued a command to take a "softly softly" aproach. Well reading between the lines that reads that a US soldier's life is worth more than an Iraqi citizen prior to that mandate and shoot first and think second. The Brits appear to be handling the situation much better, maybe Northern Ireland experience is helping them?

The whole thing is a mess and its going to get worse and drag on. I guess fate has a way on turning on people that use lies and distortions to create wars (follow the Hutton Inquiry for details)

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[vonSanta 0]

Well, if the 'free Iraqi people' motive doesn't work out, there's always the possibility of just using 'The Project for a New American Century in its unedited, raw form. Exporting American values through pre-emptive strikes. I mean, it already has the signature of Wolfowitz and Cheney and Jeb Bush and Rumsfield. It's be simpler for everyone if one just accepted this as the current foreign policy paper or FAQ.

But maybe the world isn't ready for some old school imperialism yet. I think we'd better call it...let's see...'proactive freedom procurement approach'. I mean, the last few reasons bit us in the arse, and that's because they weren't unclear enough.



Vote for Santa von GrossenArsch in the next election. We put the Desp in Despotism and Despair.

Oh and on the topic? Point RPG looking thingie at my tank and I'll send something dangerous your way. I'd want to live and take as few chances as possible.

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[metalslug 34]

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The U.S. Army said its soldiers mistook his camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

That is pretty disturbing stuff. Unless there have been some bizarre innovations in video technology, it is pretty far off to mistake a TV camera for a RPG launcher.
Have any of us been to an unfamiliar dropzone and mistaken the windsock for either a RPG or a TV camera at 3000 ft ? I mean.. they are both kinda cylindrical, right ?

I would be curious to know at what range this mistake was made.. seemingly far enough away to hinder clear vision.. and yet close enough not to miss the shot. Go figure.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Think of the soldier that shot the guy - he was ok to do his duty and protect himself from what he perceived to be an RPG but think how he must feel knowing he killed an innocent reporter. He will live with that for the rest of his life.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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The U.S. Army said its soldiers mistook his camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

That is pretty disturbing stuff. Unless there have been some bizarre innovations in video technology, it is pretty far off to mistake a TV camera for a RPG launcher..

Actually it is a quite feasible mistake... if you are looking down the front of a television camera, it could very easily resemble an shoulder mounted weapon. In addition to the square object with the protruding round front end, the position of the body, head and hands of the user would be the same as a person sighting an anti-tank weapon.

I've attached 2 pictures.... If you have to make a quick decision... and you do not have the luxury of these side views (to see the length of the tube) the cameraman is virtually indistinguishable from a soldier firing an anti-tank weapon. In fact the camera man in this photo was killed by an Israeli solder who mistook him also.

[nigel99 364]

Sorry I just can't buy the argument of thinking of the guy who shot him. Tough shit and he should be hauled infront of a military tribunal.

Ok so you can confuse a camera for a missile launcher, BUT I do believe that decent training and forsight would highlight alot of differences between the circumstantial evidence at the time. A soldier (sorry can't call him a terrorist while we are technically still at war), would probably have a very different strategy and or position to a journalist, something that a trained soldier should be able to read and think twice about. It's like good analysists or engineers its often the subtle details that make something definitive to the trained eye.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Ok so you can confuse a camera for a missile launcher, BUT I do believe that decent training and forsight would highlight alot of differences between the circumstantial evidence at the time...//... something that a trained soldier should be able to read and think twice about.

Dude? You agree that the cameraman might be confused for a man with a weapon.... Some guy just hopped out of a car and pointed at you. Do you really think there is time to "read and think twice" about it? NO. If they guy is really aiming a weapon, he is only a trigger squeeze away from firing. If the soldier mistook the camera as a weapon (or if it was a weapon) he had no other choice but to IMMEDIATELY return fire. There are no "BUTS" about it.

These reporters are in a damn war zone, doing their jobs in front of guns. If one gets killed they need to investigate it, learn, and cope. Its not much different than what happens when a skydiver goes in. Its a fatality in a situation where the risk of death is quite clear.

So quit the finger pointing, second guessing, bitching... and learn what can be done better next time to prevent it from happening again.

[leroydb 0]

i second that, here here...

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[nigel99 364]

I really disagree, on this. First he wasn't "returning fire" (Ok I know what you mean't though). Strategy takes reading in the surroundings and not viewing events through a narrow periscope view. Like it is said about skydiving accidents - it is the CHAIN of events that leads to the incident. So a well trained soldier SHOULD have the ability to recognise the events leading to a fire fight. Ok so I was not there and maybe all the indicators of a fire fight were there, I doubt it though.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[leroydb 0]

I do not think any of us can talk unless you have been through the years of military training that most of the professional soldiers have. And, as it stands, those soldiers have more combat time than you do sir.

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

The words of the reporter that survived explain it all. In the beginning he stated that they knew we were reporters, they were there for a half an hour.... but later he stated:

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"After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters (yards). We were noted and seen clearly," al-Shyoukhi said.

"A soldier on the tank shot at us.

That statement shows that the Tank just arrived. Meaning the soldiers in the tank were not aware of the reporters.

It also proves the actions of the cameraman mirrored that of previous guerrilla attacks. Where a man in civilian clothes jumps out of a vehicle and fires a us troops.

According to the reporters words, I believe the soldier was watching a chain of events that unfolded as he arrived. That chain of events unfortunately was one that could have easily been that of a guerrilla attack.

[leroydb 0]

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According to the reporters words, I believe the soldier was watching a chain of events that unfolded as he arrived. That chain of events unfortunately was one that could have easily been that of a guerrilla attack.

Agreed totally, He had reason and cause and effect for his actions...

so again i say, unless you have combat time please watch your lane....

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[kmcguffee 0]

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The Brits appear to be handling the situation much better, maybe Northern Ireland experience is helping them?

LOL, I thought it was the Americans who were arrogent? Do you think that maaaaybeeee the British area is not as volatile as the US area because of the difference in the local population? The Brits are doing an outstanding job just like the US soldiers and the Polish soldiers.

I don't know if this soldier did the right thing or not, I wasn't there. I can certainly see where he could mistake a journalist's camera for an RPG though. He was most likely looking through thermals and had to make a split section decision based on limited information. Until you have been in his situation and had to make the same types of decisions under the same type of stress you need to keep your friggin mouth shut!

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[kiltboy 0]

There is a difference in the British area of operations and there is a bunch of experience in peacekeeping throughout the UK forces (they spend shed loads of time in Ireland, the Balkans, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, not to mention previous ops in Rwanda and the list goes on) but I hardly think it's a fair comparison. Part of the difference in style was observed in the balkans where the guys were more relaxed and approachable (soft hats instead of Kevlar) but the strategy can backfire as 6 Military Policemen found out.

While there is a difference in style the US troops can do the job. If you remember during the drive for Baghdad a junior rank American soldier had his squad take a knee and defused a situation where the local populace thought there was a drive towards the local mosque. The soldiers can do the job but I think they've been giving the shit end of the stick as the promised land has not appeared with the removal of Saddam.
That responsibility I will place on the people that gave the go order screwing up the plans for afterwards. I think it is a failing of those politicians that the guys on the ground are not getting the help they need in stabilising the country.

David

[skreamer 1]

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where that Sunday they suffered a motor attack that killed 6 prisoners.

Did you mean a mortar attack?

[SkydiverRick 0]

That is pretty disturbing stuff. Unless there have been some bizarre innovations in video technology, it is pretty far off to mistake a TV camera for a RPG launcher.
Have any of us been to an unfamiliar dropzone and mistaken the windsock for either a RPG or a TV camera at 3000 ft ? I mean.. they are both kinda cylindrical, right ?

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I wasn't aware of any dz's that are in a war zone. The fact that people are trying to kill them probably adds some stress. This could improve the odds that mistakes will happen. War zones are dangerous places, if you want to stay safe don't go there.

never pull low......unless you are

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[usedtajump 1]

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I think it is a failing of those politicians that the guys on the ground are not getting the help they need in stabilising the country.

David

\

Sounds very familiar, been there, done that. Can you say Vietnam?

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[SkydiverRick 0]

A soldier (sorry can't call him a terrorist while we are technically still at war), would probably have a very different strategy and or position to a journalist, something that a trained soldier should be able to read and think twice about.

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Soldiers wear uniforms. Terrorists (and spies) don't.

never pull low......unless you are

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[storm1977 0]

I don't think you know what you are talking about dude.

"Was he returning fire?"
What kind of question is that? If it was an RPG and he was "returning fire" the guy who shot him would be dead. You don't think in a war situation like that. You react.

You would last all of 2 minutes over there.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[mountainman 0]

Clearly, this is going to be a huge case of "he said, she said".

Aren't we all used to this yet ?

http://www.brandonandlaura.com