skyHook

[jorgande 0]

I have seen vids of jumpers cut away (with skyhook installed) and it looks like the jumpers doing the cut aways typically do not even make it to the reserve handle before the reserve is fully opened.
Is it really necessary to pull the reserve handle if you are already flying well under the reserve?

Reasons not to:
For one, you get yet another handle to hold on to during the rest of the flight.
Secondly you can go straight to controlling/flying the reserve.

Reason to pull the reserve handle:
complete the emergency procedure as learned and not mess with head.

Any other aspects of this?

[brettski74 0]

In an emergency situation, you may not have enough time to think about variations in what you have been taught. Do you want to train yourself to skip a step in your emergency procedures so that when you jump a borrowed rig without a skyhook, you don't pull the reserve handle? Maybe the AAD will save you or maybe you don't have one. Maybe you forgot to turn it on.

Do your emergency procedures the way you have been taught. Always practice it that way. The more automatic it is, the more chance you might just do it right when you need it.

[DSE 3]

How do you know the skyhook will work, every time?
Malfunction Junction, Malfunction Motto, Emergency Procedures....whatever you call em' should be how you practice, and that's how you should implement.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

Reason to pull the reserve handle:
complete the emergency procedure as learned and not mess with head.

Your observations are correct, but the above is the bottom line, especially at your jump numbers (not meant as an insult, just an observation).

If you pull cutaway, reach for silver, and as you're about to pull it you realize your reserve is above you and inflated... cool, I don't have any big issue with not pulling silver at that time. But the PLAN should always be to pull both, because in several situations the RSL/skyhook will NOT activate the reserve (total malfunction, RSL not connected, RSL connected incorrectly, gear without RSL).

I personally use the one hand on each handle method (not recommending it, it's just what I do), and try to "beat" the skyhook to the reserve activiation. yes, this is impossible, but that's the way I drill it in my head... this way I onl yhave to learn one emergency procedure for all gear. When I had my first malfunction, the reserve was out so fast everyone though I had an RSL, even though at the time I did not. I think if I'd had the skyhook at the time, but the time the reserve was above my head I'd have already pulled silver. If you're using the 2-handed method that most FJC's teach, the situation you describe is more likley.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[jorgande 0]

thanks for the answers. Not insulted at all, it is a fact and I'm shiny brand new at this.
Good points and yes, I am trained to use the 2-handed method

Guess the conclusion for now is that I'll erase the entire thought of not pulling the reserve handle from my mind and body. I'll go and do some emergency procedures right now. see, see, grab, pull, see grab pull

[pinkfairy 0]

It's OK to throw the handles and I hope you've been tought that by your instructors.

You are a lot more expensive than a couple of handles.



And the skyhook is just an improved version of the RSL. It can fail. You should pull all your handles.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[riggerrob 560]

Bad idea.

Even Bill Booth (patent-holder for Skyhook, 3-Ring, throw-out pilot chute, etc.) will tell you that the brass Swedish snap shackle is the weak link in any RSL. Sometimes Swedish snap shackles mysteriously dis-connect themselves.
I have had several Swedish snap shackles snag on the edge of my ProTec helmet and disconnect themselves.

Amusing story: a friend did a cutaway on an old Vector. Then he found himself tugging desperately on his reserve ripcord. He started panicking when he could not pull it off his harness. Then he looked overhead and saw an inflated reserve.
Tee!
Hee!
Just a peculiarity of the whole Vector/Sigma/Skyhook RSL configuration that the ripcord pin sometimes gets sideways to the ripcord housing - after the reserve container has opened - and cannot be pulled completely.
IOW the reserve ripcord can be pulled far enough to open the reserve container, but not far enough to remove from the housing.

[klafollette 0]

I've had one cutaway with my Skyhook Vector. I had a hand on each handle. Pulled the cutaway. Soon as I felt the risers release, I was pulling the reserve handle. I barely had the handle out of the pocket as I felt the reserve open. I still pulled it all the way, and I threw all my handles away. Hell, it was my first cutaway with a wild spinner. Last thing on my mind was keeping handles.

I wouldn't change my procedure with the skyhook, especially considering my backup rig is a Mirage without a skyhook. During an emergency last thing I want to be trying to remember is which rig I'm wearing and what procedure to use. Keep it the same always.

[rygon 0]

I think if you pull both handles then its clear in your head. whereas if your line of thought was "the reserve handle doesnt need to be pulled if the reserve is out" then I reckon subconciously you will be waiting that little bit longer to see if the reserve is out before pulling the silver handle

[in2falling 0]

You are not going to beat either a Skyhook or a normal RSL. You should always follow all the way through your emergency procedures. You can always stuff the handles down your jump suit.

[skydude2000 3]

That's what I did on my mal. After my reserve was open & I was happy with my direction & everything, I was totally paranoid about losing handles. Stuffed the cut-away down my shirt and slipped the D-ring over my wrist. But I was a little too pre-occupied with the 'Holy Shit' factor, that I forgot to keep an eye on the canopy & the free bag. Found everything eventually though. I felt REALLY bad though, cuz I think we figured out that I hooked up the canopy wrong (done it dozens of times) and I guess forgot to check it. Naughty. Spankin', I know. But hey, walked away, right? For the record, I don't think I beat my RSL either.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Quote

Amusing story: a friend did a cutaway on an old Vector. Then he found himself tugging desperately on his reserve ripcord. He started panicking when he could not pull it off his harness. Then he looked overhead and saw an inflated reserve.
Tee!
Hee!
Just a peculiarity of the whole Vector/Sigma/Skyhook RSL configuration that the ripcord pin sometimes gets sideways to the ripcord housing - after the reserve container has opened - and cannot be pulled completely.
IOW the reserve ripcord can be pulled far enough to open the reserve container, but not far enough to remove from the housing.

The exact same thing happened to a buddy of mine on one of his reserve rides on his Vector 3 with that RWS/UPT "the reserve rip cord is just a pin puller / the reserve pin is on the end of the RSL & after extracting the reserve pin, the pin may get cross-wise and not allow the reserve rip cord / pin puller to come all the way out... although the reserve has been activated"

They really ought to tell folks more about that.

My buddy was in the process of using both hands to try to pull the "cross wise RSL pin" through the reserve rip cord cable housing... break 3/32 stainless aircraft cable... pull the ball off of the end of the resrve rip cord / pin puller... dislocate both his shoulders... hit the ground... which ever came first... when he realized he was under his reserve. It all happened pretty quick to listen to him tell the story, but when you pull that reserve rip cord and it only goes, what, 6 - 8 inches, stops and doesn't come all the way out, I'd imagine you get pretty foucused and time slows way way down.


I'm sure Booth/UPT/RWS would come back with you shouldn't be jumping with the RSL disconnected and then that wouldn't happen...

[pchapman 262]

Quote

Guess the conclusion for now is that I'll erase the entire thought of not pulling the reserve handle from my mind and body.

Yes, true.

But your original point still stands: I'll agree that there isn't much point in pulling the reserve handle if one is under one's reserve already. Unless one is trying to prove to those on the ground that you, as a newer jumper, are able to properly follow through on reserve procedures! That's not an invalid reason.

Last weekend I had my first actual parachute malfunction, on a Skyhook equipped Sigma tandem. A tension knot sent me into an increasing spiral that I couldn't fix or counteract. I got my hands on both handles, but wanted to wait (theoretically) with the reserve pull until I was sure I (a) had a good cutaway and (b) could determine whether I liked the freefall situation (stability OK? fixable quickly or just get the reserve out?). (Part (b) only applied because I knew I had decent altitude available.)

But it was just theoretical as nothing in the RSL & Skyhook system came accidentally disconnected. I wouldn't want to chop without already having the reserve handle in my other hand.

As soon as the cutaway cable slid out, lots of stuff was clearly moving rapidly behind my head, so I waited it out, and in seemingly a moment the reserve was open.

The reserve handle stayed where it was, happily in place in its velcro. Nobody on the ground worried about that decision. But since it was jump #1998 for me, nobody was worrying about me being a newbie either...

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

It's OK to throw the handles and I hope you've been tought that by your instructors.

You are a lot more expensive than a couple of handles.

It's okay to hold onto your handles, too, and some DZs teach that way. I've got 13-14 reserve rides, kept the handles every time.

With the old gutter gear, it was smart to throw away the main ripcord prior to cutting away and pulling the reserve. With hand deploys and piggy back reserves, I don't see the need to under normal circumstances.

[hackish 8]

When I stopped saying bad words instructor asked me if I kept the cutaway cable. I told him plainly you taught us to pull it out and throw it away so that's what I did. He nodded and said you did the right thing. I know deep down he was thinking that I should have kept it but I suspect that sort of thing comes with experience.

Next time if I can I'll keep them (hoping I have to wait 1000 jumps for that) but one's primary concern should be saving themselves. It is considered bad form to go in without all your handles pulled.

-Michael

[fpritchett64 0]

I remember when I had my malfunction, 9th jump. I followed my EP's exactly as taught, "look red, grab red, look silver, pull red, pull silver." As soon as I pulled Red and went for silver, everything everyone said about handles moving came to life. I tried desparately for what seemed like a lifetime (probably less than a second) to get that silver handle in my hand, when all of a sudden, bam, there's a reserve above my head. At that point, I felt no need to pull the handle, but I still practice my EP's the same every time. It's amazing how much confidence a malfunction can give you in your gear early in your jump numbers. I kinda feel sorry for the people that have to go sometimes hundreds or thousands of jumps before their first cutaway. I thought it was a great learning experience. I was amazed at how calmly I reacted to the whole incident and thank my instructors for doing a great job teaching me.

I think the scariest part was landing in a cow pasture under a bright red canopy!

[JeepDiver 0]

When I chopped my main I looked and grabbed both handles. Pulled the cutaway and the reserve was out so fast I saw no need to deploy the reserve handle.

I did however intend to wait a moment to see what was happening with the main after cutaway. I didn't attempt to pull one and then the other in rapid succession... so I stowed my cutaway handle down the front of my jumpsuit to free up my right hand. Then noticed my toggles were red.

I believe I may have uttered profanities just before all that happened though.

[klingeme 0]

Quote

I have seen vids of jumpers cut away (with skyhook installed) and it looks like the jumpers doing the cut aways typically do not even make it to the reserve handle before the reserve is fully opened.
Is it really necessary to pull the reserve handle if you are already flying well under the reserve?

Reasons not to:
For one, you get yet another handle to hold on to during the rest of the flight.
Secondly you can go straight to controlling/flying the reserve.

Reason to pull the reserve handle:
complete the emergency procedure as learned and not mess with head.

Any other aspects of this?

I've done 3 intentional cutaways and videoed about 50 of them. When I was training people how to do the cutaway, I would tell them "put your hands on both handles, and pull the cutaway and wait 1 second (The skyhook takes 1/2 of a second from cutaway before the freebag is off the reserve), if you do not have anything out pull the reserve handle" Now this was with our (UPTs) intentional cutaway rig, and I had a requirement of a minimum of 500 jumps to do the jump when I was doing these on the tour. My logic was, after 500 jumps, you are comfortable enough in you EPs that changing them up for one jump should not change them perminantly in your mind. Whereas if I let someone with 50 jumps do it, they might have a cutaway on their own, non-skyhook, rig and not pull the reserve handle because of what I had told them.

Another thing to consider, When doing these jumps, I have the person check the RSL shackle twice.. Once after deployment, and once right before the cutaway. If the shackle is not attached to your riser, you do not have a Skyhook.

Mark Klingelhoefer
United Parachute Technologies

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

I had a Skyhook cutaway 2 jumps ago.

I practice full EPs and was in the middle of reaching for silver when I realized I was already under canopy. I was really amazed with how fast the Skyhook had the reserve out and inflated. So I didn't pull it.

Then I landed and could see my old AFF instructor, up for a visit from Florida.

I pulled silver on the ground because I knew what he was going to say.

[JeepDiver 0]

Quote

When I was training people how to do the cutaway, I would tell them "put your hands on both handles, and pull the cutaway and wait 1 second

This is how I always think to do it since my 1st AFF.

Quote

I practice full EPs and was in the middle of reaching for silver when I realized I was already under canopy

Personally I dislike doing this. I need both of my hands on my handles as a rule.

This rule was reinforced in me when I watched a jumper never find the silver handle, have the cypress fire at 700, and land in a clump of trees hard. I helped lift her into the ambulance on a backboard.

It's odd to see a cutaway, no reserve deploy and then off in the distance at near tree top level see a reserve deploy. Be careful.

[billbooth 10]

While there is some logic in grabbing ahold of your reserve handle before breaking away, there are also some problems with this approach. This decision should be based on the altitude of the breakaway, and whether or not you have an RSL.

1. If you don't have an RSL, and are under a bad spinner, how are you going to get reasonably stable after breakaway before pulling your reserve with one arm in? While getting stable is the last thing you should worry about if you breakaway below 1,000 feet, it is probably the first thing you should think about if you breakaway above 2,500 feet.

2. If you do have an RSL, grabbing the reserve handle before breaking away will cost you time and altitude, (but not a much as if you try to find that reserve handle after you breakaway without an RSL). However, because your reserve will be opened immediately after breakaway, there is little you can do about stability anyway. This potential lack of stability after a spinning breakaway was one reason I never really liked old fashioned RSL's, and the main reason I developed the Skyhook. With the Skyhook, the reserve is always at line stretch so fast, stability is no longer a concern.

3. If you have ahold of your reserve handle and have a hard (slow pull) breakaway which results in one side going first, there is some chance that you will accidentally pull your reserve handle at first riser release, before the other side goes, resulting in a main reserve entanglement. Although we can't know for sure how many time this has actually happened, it is suspected in several fatalities. This is one of the scenarios differential cutaway cable lengths, coupled with the Collins' Lanyard (part of the Skyhook system) was designed to combat.

I know all this might be confusing to a new jumper, and I certainly do not advocate re-thinking your primary emergency instruction in the middle of an emergency. I bring this up simply to make the point that the Skyhook system has already done all this thinking for you before you pull that breakaway handle. The only (very rare) problem you face is an accidental release of the snap shackle that connects your RSL to the main riser. This is why I advocate always planning to follow through with a reserve ripcord pull if your don't feel line stretch in 1/2 second after a Skyhook breakaway.