slightly bent reserve pin

[tsalnukt 1]

During a normal inspection i noticed that the customer's reserve pin is slightly bent. It's not so bent that it's immediately noticelable but if you hold it up to a straight edge there is a slight bend in it. Is there a "tolerance" for how much it could be bent before it's no good??? Just wondering, thanks.

[ChrisL 2]

Quote

During a normal inspection i noticed that the customer's reserve pin is slightly bent. It's not so bent that it's immediately noticelable but if you hold it up to a straight edge there is a slight bend in it. Is there a "tolerance" for how much it could be bent before it's no good??? Just wondering, thanks.

If it was my rig I would have it replaced, unless it was actually supposed to have a slight curve.

You should inquire of the container manufacturer

__

My mighty steed

[LouDiamond 1]

Are you referring to the entire pin looking bent or only a section of it above the shoulder of the pin when you say it is bent? The shoulder being the fatter/thicker portion of the pin where the cable is swagged into it.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[popsjumper 2]

Talk to Lou....it depends on what you are meaning by "bent".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[riggerrob 558]

I ignore minor bends (less than 15 degrees).

I will straighten a "bend" ONCE, but worry that straightening too many times will fatigue the steel.

Meanwhile, order a replacement ripcord - from the container manufacturer - and install it at the next repack.
Keep the old ripcord as a "spare" in your gear bag.

[skydiverek 55]

Check these six threads:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=bent+pin+-Re%3A&search_type=AND&search_fields=s&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=score&mh=6

[pchapman 261]

There was another thread on this maybe a year or two ago. I don't think there was ever a consensus on what an acceptable bend is. It isn't that uncommon to see bent pins; it is more likely on some rigs than others.

I don't normally straighten a pin, just to be sure multiple riggers haven't straightened it "just once".

My limit? Who knows, maybe 5 degrees, not sure about 10. Estimating angles isn't easy if one hasn't done it -- for example, 10 degrees looks pretty bent if one draws it out on paper.

So it is hard to give an objective number if one normally just eyeballs a limit.

[billvon 2,400]

>I don't normally straighten a pin, just to be sure multiple riggers haven't
>straightened it "just once".

That's my worry; that a pin with a slight bend has a bend because another rigger straightened it and it bent again. Do that enough times and you have a pin that is either more fragile or more likely to bend in the future.

[JohnSherman 1]

It the pin blade which is .094 +/-.02 diameter will freely insert into a .104 diameter hole in a check block. Then it passes the specification test. We check out pins with a .101 diameter. As a pin manufacturer who understands the rotary swage process of cold forming the pin blade. I don't have a problem with straightening them a small amout. Do it between two pieces of wood so as not to upset the diameter or finish. The specs we use were written when the pins were used with cones with a metal hole. That application was much less forgiving than the cloth loop. Just about all of the info given so far in this thread is good. Caution must prevail

[jerolim 7]

My concept is. Straiten the pin and do the tests from service buletin for pins (apply side force on the pin). If it passes keep it, if it bends again replace it.

[skydiverek 55]

Quote

My concept is. Straiten the pin and do the tests from service buletin for pins (apply side force on the pin). If it passes keep it, if it bends again replace it.

And what if the buletting was already done (marked ripcord)? Wouldn't performing multiple "Capewell tests" make the pin weaker?

[riggerpaul 1]

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My concept is. Straiten the pin and do the tests from service buletin for pins (apply side force on the pin). If it passes keep it, if it bends again replace it.

Since the pin is not in the rig when you straighten it, you'd be testing with the test block method, right?

I don't believe the test block method tests the central portion of the blade.

If that's where the bend was, the test would not prove much, if anything, would it?

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

Quote

My concept is. Straiten the pin and do the tests from service buletin for pins (apply side force on the pin). If it passes keep it, if it bends again replace it.

And what if the buletting was already done (marked ripcord)? Wouldn't performing multiple "Capewell tests" make the pin weaker?

No, it should not.

When ordinary metal items such as the pin are stressed in their elastic range (elastic stress means that the pin can bend while stressed, but it will come back to its original shape when the stress is removed), you will not have permanent deformation. Engineering types will know that the elastic limit actually does allow for a very small % of deformation, but if you aren't too close to that elastic limit, you can consider there to be no residual deformation, and the pin would not become weaker.

This whole bent pin subject bring is particularly irritating to me because I think it is pathetic that we have pins that are so vulnerable to bending. It should not be possible to bend a pin due to too tight of a closing loop, or by pushing/leaning back against an airplanes inner structure, or by hitting the door frame while exiting, etc.

People are willing to pay a lot of money for options on containers that have actually little value. I think that a much stronger pin could be a very strong marketing point that would distinguish one brand over others and buyers would be very willing to pay for the extra cost involved for the pin's development.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[theonlyski 3]

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People are willing to pay a lot of money for options on containers that have actually little value. I think that a much stronger pin could be a very strong marketing point that would distinguish one brand over others and buyers would be very willing to pay for the extra cost involved for the pin's development.

I like the new UPT pin, and cannot see a way that it could possibly be bent without extreme circumstances. Only downside is the way it's attached to the spectra ripcord requires you have an RSL... It also won't fit (that I know of anyways) in the hard housing for the ripcord handle.

IIRC this pin setup is cheaper than the standard swadge type, and (again, IIRC) UPT actually charges more if you want the old metal cable/pin setup.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

Quote

People are willing to pay a lot of money for options on containers that have actually little value. I think that a much stronger pin could be a very strong marketing point that would distinguish one brand over others and buyers would be very willing to pay for the extra cost involved for the pin's development.

I like the new UPT pin, and cannot see a way that it could possibly be bent without extreme circumstances. Only downside is the way it's attached to the spectra ripcord requires you have an RSL... It also won't fit (that I know of anyways) in the hard housing for the ripcord handle.

IIRC this pin setup is cheaper than the standard swadge type, and (again, IIRC) UPT actually charges more if you want the old metal cable/pin setup.

I also have figured that the UPT pin is stronger. It sure would be nice to see some data to compare them. I suspect that it might still be vulnerable to bending (I would set a high standard for that strength if you're going to bother making a new design) That it requires an RSL is not a big deal, you don't have to hook it up to the riser anyway.

Unfortunately, we can't just adapt the UPT pin to another mfgs container. It would be a big step forward if we could get some mfgs to allow a retrofit to the UPT RSL/ripcord set up. Perhaps some TSO issues prevent that from being so easy, but so many things get passed off as a minor change, that I think that would be a cop-out to just not wanting to bother with it. I think a lot of people would be willing to pay extra, and as you say, it really may actually be a higher cost for the mfg if the UPT setup is used.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

This whole bent pin subject bring is particularly irritating to me because I think it is pathetic that we have pins that are so vulnerable to bending. It should not be possible to bend a pin due to too tight of a closing loop, or by pushing/leaning back against an airplanes inner structure, or by hitting the door frame while exiting, etc.

So what is the reason for this? Is it only because the metal has to be somewhat soft in order to swage it onto the steel cable and make it "flow" into the cable strands to give it a good grip?

And if you made a pin out of something much stronger and harder like carbide steel, what are the possible downsides to that?

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

Quote

This whole bent pin subject bring is particularly irritating to me because I think it is pathetic that we have pins that are so vulnerable to bending. It should not be possible to bend a pin due to too tight of a closing loop, or by pushing/leaning back against an airplanes inner structure, or by hitting the door frame while exiting, etc.

So what is the reason for this? Is it only because the metal has to be somewhat soft in order to swage it onto the steel cable and make it "flow" into the cable strands to give it a good grip?

And if you made a pin out of something much stronger and harder like carbide steel, what are the possible downsides to that?

Quite right! Seems to me as a former mech design engineer, the only downside is that it doesn't lend itself to the existing method of attaching it to a cable, and also that it requires some effort/resources to make a change. The UPT design of course gets around the swaging problem by eliminating the swaging. Many ways to get that done, their way is effective, and doesn't require a huge ripcord housing to allow a larger pin to pass through (or require that we accept the ripcord not being able to pass through).

It doesn't need to be some hyper-alloy steel, just bigger in diameter.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Cliff,

Regarding your post, I was just about to jump all over you until I read:

'. . . Engineering types will know that the elastic limit actually does allow for a very small % of deformation, but if you aren't too close to that elastic limit, you can consider there to be no residual deformation . . .'

It's the old engineer in me; I cannot help it.

For my thoughts on this ( and I do wish they would change the design as you describe ):

A personal thought: Of the three mfr's that I know of, they all seem to build their products to the old military drawings. I 'think' that their biggest market is the military as they list being on the QPL ( Qualified Products List ). Given that, they would have to have two designs, one for the military & one for the sport gear. I doubt that they would consider doing this due to costs.
Just to stir the pot a little

JerryBaumchen

PS) To John Sherman: Thanks for the post and the info, that is about as specific as one can get. Anyone know where to buy a 13/128" drill bit???????

Edit to add: I found out that a #38 drill bit is 0.1015" for those who might want to make up a check block. One could makeup a rather small check block & just keep it in the riggers kit for just this purpose.