Bowling For Columbine

[goose491 0]

Holly sh*t guy! Time to switch to the decaf I think.

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None of it is real. Moore is a lying communist.
Do some research. Try google.
If you do a Google search for Michael Moore or BFC you will find nothing but sites that show he is a f***ing communist liar a*****e.

These are not the words of someone who has done "some research"... my goodness, these areen't even the words of someone who has read past the first few posts of this thread!

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Its not a documentary by the greatest stretch of the imagination. Itcut and paste of some true events with his lies to show you what he wants you believe.
No thinking person who takes a few minutes to do some research could believe anything he says.

Talk about cut and paste... this like, is the first few posts of this thread! lol


Seriously dude, decaf, a good book, deep breaths... and intelligent input to an intelligent conversation. Instead of simple...

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BAAAAAAAAAAA!
Sheep.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[JohnRich 4]

Lots of people like to brag about the low murder rates in England, and suggest that their strict gun laws are responsible for that. But take a look at this...

The murder rate in London, England, is 3.3 per 100,000 population.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/2934279.stm

Here are the U.S. murder rates, by state, for 2002, in descending order:

Washington D.C... 46.2 

Louisiana........ 13.2 

Maryland......... 9.4 

Mississippi...... 9.2 

Nevada........... 8.3 

New Mexico....... 8.2 

Illinois......... 7.5 

South Carolina... 7.3 

Tennessee........ 7.2 

Arizona.......... 7.1 

Georgia.......... 7.1 

Alabama.......... 6.8  

California....... 6.8  

Michigan......... 6.7 

North Carolina... 6.6 

Texas............ 6.0 

Indiana.......... 5.9 

Missouri......... 5.8  

Florida.......... 5.5 

Virginia......... 5.3 

Arkansas......... 5.2  

Alaska........... 5.1 

Pennsylvania..... 5.1 

New York......... 4.7 

Oklahoma......... 4.7 

Ohio............. 4.6 

Kentucky......... 4.5  

Colorado......... 4.0  

New Jersey....... 3.9 

Rhode Island..... 3.8 

Delaware......... 3.2 

West Virginia.... 3.2 

Washington....... 3.0 

Wyoming.......... 3.0   

Kansas........... 2.9 

Nebraska......... 2.8 

Wisconsin........ 2.8 

Idaho............ 2.7   

Massachusetts.... 2.7 

Connecticut...... 2.3 

Minnesota........ 2.2 

Vermont.......... 2.1 

Oregon........... 2.0 

Utah............. 2.0 

Hawaii........... 1.9 

Montana.......... 1.8 

Iowa............. 1.5 

South Dakota..... 1.4 

Maine............ 1.1 

New Hampshire.... 0.9 

North Dakota..... 0.8

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-table05.html

Notice that 20 of the States have a lower murder rate than London, with all its strict gun laws!

How do you gun-control law advocates explain this?

How could these 20 states, with the "loose" gun laws in America, have lower murder rates than London, England, which has a complete ban on legal handgun ownership, as well as a ban on semi-auto long guns?

What say you?

If the murder rates were all about gun laws, shouldn't London have a lower murder rate than everywhere in America?

[JohnRich 4]

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Thinking of Diversity as 'Differences'... Let’s try languages first....

Why? Does speaking certain langauges make a person more likely to commit murder?

Blacks in America commit about half of all murders, even though they comprise only 13% of the total population.

If you were to exclude that category of murderers, the murder rate in America wouldn't be much different from that of Canada or England.

So maybe the real question is not why America's murder rate is so high, but why the murder rate of Black American's is so high.

The murder rate by Whites: 2.5
The murder rate by Blacks: 16.2

Blacks commit 6.5 times more murder per capita than Whites.

Remember that scene in "Bowling for Columbine" when Michael Moore tries to belittle Charleton Heston for saying that our murder problem has to do with ethnic diversity? Well, as the above statistics from the FBI show, Charleton Heston was correct.

[goose491 0]

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Thinking of Diversity as 'Differences'... Let’s try languages first....

Why? Does speaking certain langauges make a person more likely to commit murder?

Are you smoking crack John? Read up. I'm not saying this at all.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

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So maybe the real question is not why America's murder rate is so high, but why the murder rate of Black American's is so high.

And that's a very easy question to answer. Drug prohibition.

[Nuke 0]

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None of it is real. Moore is a lying communist.

That's your opinion, it's not mine.

But who am I to express myself, I'm just another lying communist that can't think for myself, right?

/M

[Kennedy 0]

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So maybe the real question is not why America's murder rate is so high, but why the murder rate of Black American's is so high.

And that's a very easy question to answer. Drug prohibition.

Care to flesh out that theory? No antagonism intended, I'm just curious about your take on it. I agree, in part.

{ps - I remember you had an article about the beginnings of public ed in the US. Could you post that or pm me with it? Thanks.}

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[turtlespeed 212]

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None of it is real. Moore is a lying communist.

That's your opinion, it's not mine.

But who am I to express myself, I'm just another lying communist that can't think for myself, right?

/M

Are you really?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

Easy....the majority of crimes commited with guns are related to the illicit sale of illegal drugs. Much like the violence during the 1920's during alcohol prohibition was linked to the illicit sale of illegal alcohol. Back then they said, whoa...look at these Tommy guns, they're spraying the streets with bullets, and thus the first gun ban was born. It, however, did not change the amount of violence one bit. Not until the end of prohibition was violence drastically reduced. However, that was short lived because there were enormous criminal organizations that were built up by alcohol and needed to find a new product to survive. Hello drugs. The criminal organizations of that day have morphed into the street gangs that we know of today.

End prohibition and these guys don't have a reason to go around shooting each other over territory and bad deals.

[Kennedy 0]

OK, I'll buy most of that. But the question remains, why is so called "black America" killing itself faster than anything else? If you say it's drug prohibition, then why does that affect blacks more than whites?

- Prohibition ended 1933 with the 20th Amendment. The first serious gun control that I'm aware of at the federal level was 1936.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[PhillyKev 0]

Because the drug trade is predominantly carried out in black, inner city neighborhoods. At the time alcohol was again legal and criminal organizations started looking for a new product, it was near impossible for blacks to find work. This was the time when the KKK was at their height. It was easy for the crime lords, who were hesitant to "dirty themselves" with the drug trade to turn to that community to do their dirty work.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Because the drug trade is predominantly carried out in black, inner city neighborhoods.

That's fine and dandy to say as long as you acknowledge that the majority of the drug consumers are white folks from the suburbs.

So much for staying out of this thread.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

Boy, you've got that all tied up neat and tidy. 'One set of small time criminals took over for the big time criminals, and they've been shooting each other ever since.'

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End prohibition and these guys don't have a reason to go around shooting each other over territory and bad deals.

Are you saying that most of the victims are involved in the illegal drug trade?

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It was easy for the crime lords, who were hesitant to "dirty themselves" with the drug trade to turn to that community to do their dirty work.

OK, assuming your timeline is correct, why is that community still doing the dirty work, for themselves or otherwise, and suffering the consequences?

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[Kennedy 0]

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Because the drug trade is predominantly carried out in black, inner city neighborhoods.

That's fine and dandy to say as long as you acknowledge that the majority of the drug consumers are white folks from the suburbs.

If that's the case, why aren't there a great many more interracial murders? White on black or black on white killings? There has to be a cross over somewhere. Why is the death toll so one-sided? Even the NAACP thinks it's unbalanced. If white folks are the major consumers, why aren't there bad deals in those instances?

Why aren't white drug dealers offing each other in record numbers? Why are they immune to the death inherent in the drug trade? If they're not, then why are there so many fewer white drug dealers?

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[JohnRich 4]

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Washington D.C... 46.2  

Vermont.......... 2.1

It is interesting to note that Vermont has the 10th lowest murder rate in America. And this is in the state that allows any citizen to carry a concealed, loaded handgun for any reason, without any special licensing. Vermont has some of the loosest gun laws in the entire nation, and yet they still have a lower murder rate than 40 other states!

And also note that Washington D.C. has the highest murder rate in the nation, despite the fact that they have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, including a complete ban on handgun ownership, gun owner licensing, and gun registration!

It's not about gun laws.

Gun laws don't work!

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=VT
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=DC

[captainpooby 0]

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- Prohibition ended 1933 with the 20th Amendment. The first serious gun control that I'm aware of at the federal level was 1936.

The feds had nothing to do anymore so they made something else illegal.
If only Miller had showed up for his SCOTUS appeal there wouldnt be gun control like today.

[Kennedy 0]

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The feds had nothing to do anymore so they made something else illegal.
If only Miller had showed up for his SCOTUS appeal there wouldnt be gun control like today.

I've heard that lament many a time.

-and if we had rum, we'd make rum and cokes...
...if only we had the cokes!!

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[JohnRich 4]

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If only Miller had showed up for his SCOTUS appeal there wouldnt be gun control like today.

That would have been difficult for Miller to do, because he died before his case came before the court. And then his lawyer didn't even bother to show up. So
it was a default judgement, where only the prosecution presented evidence. If the lawyer had done his job, he could have quite easily proven that short barrelled shotguns have been used in military service - trench warfare for example, since before World War I.

[jaaska 0]

Comparing one of the biggest metropolis (London, that is) with state wide statistics makes no sense to me.

I would appreciate though, if you could find statistics about these murder/death rates in any of the major cities in any of the states...

Thanks.

[JackC 0]

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Lots of people like to brag about the low murder rates in England, and suggest that their strict gun laws are responsible for that.

The Firearm (Amendment) Act 1997, resulted in the confiscation of over 160,000 legally held handguns. The UK population of the time was in excess of 58 million people. Therefore, if we assume that each gun was owned by a different person, the 1997 ban on firearms affected less than 0.3% of the UK population.

Evidently, any attempt to compare UK and US gun ownership/legislation is rediculous simply because the vast majority of UK citizens do not and have no desire to own a gun. Americans, on the other hand, seem to have a pathological need to armed to the teeth. Why do you suppose that is?

The population density of London is estimated to be 11,652 per sq mi whereas Delaware has a population density of 401, that's 29 times less than London and yet you attempt to compare the murder rates between the two? Washington DC by comparison has a population density of 9,316 per square mile and has a murder rate of 46.2 compared to London's 3.3.

Extrapolating from Delaware's population density and murder rate through Washington's, we find that for a US city with London's population density, the murder rate would be 56.8 instead of 3.3.

From these figures, can I conclude that the lax gun laws in the US are the prime reason for high murder rates? No, that would be rediculous. But I can conclude that your argument is complete bollocks as I am sure you would have realised if you had bothered to even half think it through.

So please stop using the UK as a shining example of how gun laws don't work because the only thing it tells anyone is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[n2skdvn 0]

This thread reminds me of a self looping tape it keeps playing over and over and over without going anywhere. anyone else notice this????

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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This thread reminds me of a self looping tape it keeps playing over and over and over without going anywhere. anyone else notice this????

No, I don't think that's true.

By the way, since we're talking about Bowling for Columbine, who's seen it, and who thinks it's one of the best movies out there?

Watching this really makes you change the way you view our country...

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[goose491 0]

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This thread reminds me of a self looping tape it keeps playing over and over and over without going anywhere. anyone else notice this????

The first step in solving a problem is acknowledging you have one.

I truly beleive that Bowling put bees in so many American Bonnets with it's apparent and obviously intentional misdirections that they cannot see the intended message.

Then there are those who simply stick to their guns [snicker] with one single argument even once the conversation has moved on.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

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This thread reminds me of a self looping tape it keeps playing over and over and over without going anywhere. anyone else notice this????

No, I don't think that's true.

By the way, since we're talking about Bowling for Columbine, who's seen it, and who thinks it's one of the best movies out there?

Watching this really makes you change the way you view our country...

Bwahaahaaaa!


I thought it was a great movie. The trick, IMHO, is to determine what he is not saying... before attempting to decipher what he is saying. An interesting concept for a documentary.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Kramer 0]

Hehehe...I laughed, I did.

In related news, I forced my far right-field ultra-conservative Dad to watch this movie last weekend. He actually really liked it, and I think, for just one second, a little Christmas Liberal was in his spirit. A couple hours later he firmly told me that the movie was bullshit 'cause "we have a Constitutional right to own guns!!!". "Alright Dad, you're right

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!