peterk 0 #1 December 3, 2003 Since when did PD start making PDRs out in Honduras??? I've asked around here, and nobody has even heard about it. What kind of facility do they have out there? Do they own it, or are they outsourcing it to some Honduran parachute manufacturer??? I want to know, in fact, I would have liked to have known before... I would have bought a PISA (not that they are equal) for half the price and known it was built in South Africa. I sent a picture of the label, just in case you don't believe it...--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcandalysse 0 #2 December 3, 2003 maybe just the label is 'made in honduras'?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #3 December 3, 2003 Yes that looks just like the label on mine which I bought over a year ago."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 December 3, 2003 They may be made there, but they go through the same rigorous inspections that make PD's top quality reserves. I'll still trust my life to them. Oh yeah, PISA does not make sport canopies or reserves any more. Aerodyne International absorbed PISA, and there is a whole new line of products out. The SMART reserve by them is very nice too.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #5 December 4, 2003 Thats been going on for awhile now. It is actually the sewing that is done in Honduras if I remember correctly. All material is cut on their laser cutter and sent to Honduras to be sewn and the finsihed product is returned."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleBadger 0 #6 December 4, 2003 They do some amount of sewing in Deland, at least they appeared to have one or two sewing machines when i looked round Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #7 December 4, 2003 QuoteThey do some amount of sewing in Deland That would be the main canopies and the repairs section if I am not mistaken."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyfree 0 #8 December 4, 2003 I remember when they used to have instalations here in south florida, Hialeah to be more exact....then they moved their manufacturing to honduras...it has been going on like this for many years now....they say it's cheaper....and it is, the minimum wage over there is minimal, I'm still of the idea that the chineese companies that manufacture those elliptical ram air kites should get in the business of at least making main parachutes..it would cost something like 500 bucks?...just a thought Felipe.-- Blue Skies NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY... "A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #9 December 4, 2003 Quote It is actually the sewing that is done in Honduras if I remember correctly. Of course....everyone knows that sweat shop kiddy labor is cheaper. Just look to great Entreprenuers like P Diddy and Cathy lee...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #10 December 4, 2003 Performance Designs has been sewing canopies in Honduras since 2000 or 2001. So much for "buy American" chauvanism! Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #11 December 4, 2003 Just the reserves, as earlier implied?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #12 December 4, 2003 Is everyone OK with this, and how many people actually knew about this. I was sure that I would have heard something about a high-tech, laser-die-cutting facility out there in Honduras, or at least heard a rigger complain about how their jobs are being outsourced to Honduras. Does this mean that the BASE canopies that several manufacturers outsource to PD, actually get outsourced and made in Honduras? Just kind of thought I was in the loop until I was inspecting my new PDR and saw that... Would I be wrong to say that I feel bad when I hear Levis doing this so they can make jeans at $0.30/hr, but its just the way business is done in skydiving? Just curious...--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremyneas 0 #13 December 4, 2003 I don't think they put the "made in hondurus" on the tag till after they were called out. but it remained small talk. i'm curious if there is a list out there of all the 'outsourced' canopies it's happening in major industries all over the U.S., it would be nieve to think that it couldn't touch parachutings major manufacturer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #14 December 4, 2003 >or at least heard a rigger complain about how their jobs are being outsourced to Honduras. I don't think you could afford to have all your canopies made by riggers. The people sewing your canopy are probally the same little old ladies that were sewing curtians at their last job. And thats the ones in FL. Riggers want 20-50 an hour, and you can pay a seamstress $10 and they are happy. Its been happening for years. PD makes a large share of their canopies in FL but some are made outside that factory. People used to flock to the Tempo since it was cheap (Combo of low wages/ good exchange rate). I don't see why this is different.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #15 December 4, 2003 Hmmm.... Let'see. The PD reserve that saved my ass this summer was built in Honduras. Maybe I'll put them on my Christmas card list. Seriously, if you visit any manufacturer the employees building parachutes are rarely skydivers. I asked Rags at PD about their canopy construction process and production time, out of curiousity. He said that although in terms of pure labor time it may only take 16-24 hrs labor to build a parachute that no one person builds a canopy. The production is just like an assembly line. Each person specializes in one particular sewing step and the product is moved from station to station and checked by quality control through the process. That way you insure a customer is less subject to getting a bad product because one employee is better or worse at building an entire parachute than another. So, uh. Yeah. I like the PD reserve.Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #16 December 4, 2003 QuoteIs everyone OK with this, and how many people actually knew about this. I was sure that I would have heard something about a high-tech, laser-die-cutting facility out there in Honduras, or at least heard a rigger complain about how their jobs are being outsourced to Honduras It's not like it's been a secret, it's printed on the data panel of every reserve. The laser tables are in Deland, not Hondo. Pieces/parts are shipped to Hondo for assembly then returned to the USA. You would be surprised how many other canopy manufacturers PD either cuts or assembles canopies for. The same holds true for other aspects of the industy. That Javelin your waiting 2 years on,chances are they are being sewn by other rig manufacturers or facilities that can pick up the slack. I know of one such instance where that is happening right here in NC. So even if your rig says Javelin on it, there is a very good chance that it could of been sewn/ assembled/parts made, etc in any of the other gear manufacturers facilities. As for the outsourceing by canopy manufacturers, it is an economical way of staying afloat and dealing with the demand in a timely manner. For others, it is the only way they can deal with the volume since they are not large enough to handle the work loads that the demand requires or have the equipment needed (like a laser table)."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #17 December 4, 2003 Ok, then here is another question... Who is the "lucky" PD industry expert that was, and is, sent to Honduras to supervise the production of these canopies? Or are they just sending laser-cut zero-p out to Honduras, letting a whole bunch of Hondurans sew canopies together without even a single skydiver or rigger in the shop, and final inspection is completed in Deland? I'm not saying that these Honduran PDs are better or worse, but I am amazed at the number of people that have a blind loyalty to a company, regardless of what they are doing...--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gafneyjr 0 #18 December 4, 2003 I had spoken to them a while back when I saw PD on the road, and know that the factory is PD owned - and run by PD Deland managers. The quality of workmanship equals at least what comes out of Deland. I also heard that all their inspections are done in Deland. I know that besides Honduras, there are other canopy manufacturers who build their prodcut in Malaysia, Reunion, Mauritius and South Africa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 December 4, 2003 Where was your car made? Your jeans, your computer, your shirts, your shoes, and everything else you own? What would the cost of a canopy be if all the work was done in the US? What about all the other canopy manufactures, where are ALL of their canopies made?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #20 December 4, 2003 QuoteWho is the "lucky" PD industry expert that was, and is, sent to Honduras to supervise the production of these canopies? Or are they just sending laser-cut zero-p out to Honduras, letting a whole bunch of Hondurans sew canopies together without even a single skydiver or rigger in the shop, and final inspection is completed in Deland? I don't know who that lucky individual is personally. But I am sure that there is a stringent QC on all products especially seeing how the reserve canopy certification requirements are higher than main canopies. FYI, PD sews their mains to the same stringent certification as is required for reserves. To my knowledge, not everyone does this. Quotebut I am amazed at the number of people that have a blind loyalty to a company, regardless of what they are doing... Fact of the matter is most people have no clue where most of their stuff was REALLY made, they simply go off of the name/manufacturer and assume it was made in house. That's why I laugh when I hear people say "yeah brand X container/canopy/ products suck, I only use Brand Z becasue they are built better etc" As I eluded to earlier, you may have loyalties to company X and their products but in actuality company Y did the sewing on the main lift webs, Company Z provided the die cutting, Company W supplied the hardware. It's a very small community and it's almost a symbiotic relationship in the way things work sometimes. Bottom line is all the companies help each other out in one way or another in the long run. That Jav container you wear might have been sewn at Relative workshop or that zippy little "other" canopy might have been cut and assembled by PD. It's kind of like the 6 degrees of seperation thing only it's more like 1 or 2 degrees in this case."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #21 December 4, 2003 QuoteI'm not saying that these Honduran PDs are better or worse, but I am amazed at the number of people that have a blind loyalty to a company, regardless of what they are doing... I don't have, nor will ever have enough time and knowledge to follow my canopy from beginning to end and know that it is made perfectly. Items are outsourced because somewhere in the world there are people who will make the same or a higher quality product for less money than those in country X. The problem isn't the company being cheap, it's the worker in country X who thinks that just because they're a citizen of that country and they punch a timeclock then they deserves a nice truck with a Hemi. I have more faith in most foreign made items than I do American made items because I have witnessed that many Americans are lazy and put little value on craftsmanship. In my field (mechanical engineering) I have seen some amazingly lazy things, and I have the pictures to prove it. The attached is how one contractor supported several lengths of sprinkler piping in a hospital."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #22 December 5, 2003 QuoteWhere was your car made? Your jeans, your computer, your shirts, your shoes, and everything else you own? I don't count on any of those things to save my life after a cutaway. I do count on my reserve for that event. Big difference.It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 December 5, 2003 QuoteI do count on my reserve for that event. Big difference. Um, you don't count on your car to save your life? Are you kidding, one of the main reasions I don't daily drive a '73 VW Beetle anymore, but I drive a 5,000lbs 4x4 truck is that the truck has a much better chance of saving my life. Where was the bug made? All of it was made in Germany, assembled in Wolfsburg. Where was my '98 Chevy k1500 made? Fuck me if I know, parts of that thing came from all around the globe. I still know its a quality truck and I still expect it to perform just as it should, when it should, and I expect it to protect me if I ever need it to, during a crash.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #24 December 5, 2003 QuoteUm, you don't count on your car to save your life? No I don't. I count on my car to get me from point a to point b. I count on myself to drive in such a manner that I avoid accidents. Similarly, I count on myself to recongnize a malfunction, cutaway, and pull silver, but I count on the reserve canopy to function. I still maintain that there is a difference between the uese of a car and of a reserve.It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airgord 1 #25 December 5, 2003 Back in August I put a jump on my Honduran built aAmerican designed and inspected reserve and it worked perfectly. Skydiving Magazine did an article about this over a year ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
