What makes a skydiver a skydiver? AKA be nice to the tandems

[Amazon 7]

Gun thread... eeeekkkk run away... run away...

[champu 1]

as a university club pres I make it a point to encourage people to keep up their progress as students, whether they're making a couple jumps every couple weeks, or they go all out and get their license in a month.

I'm no veteran as I've only got about 14mos in the sport, but I know I'm going to get looked up to along with the instructors at the dropzone. I love listening to people's excited accounts of the jumps they did that day, it reminds me of how crazy it was being on student status.

We bring a number of tandems out too, and I try and urge them to consider doing the license thing. A few have, but most tell me they had fun but don't see themselves doing it all the time. But I figure hey, they came out and jumped with us, that's all I can really ask of anyone.

[skybytch 259]

I didn't call myself a skydiver until the day I put a rig on my back, jumped out of an airplane, fell for a few seconds, deployed the main, dealt with any problems, and then landed that canopy myself.
Therefore I wouldn't say that someone who has done a tandem is a skydiver.

But people can call themselves whatever they want. And just because I don't think someone who has done one tandem is a skydiver doesn't mean I don't think they are nice people or that they won't be what I consider a skydiver in the future.

[Ron 7]

What makes a person a skydiver?

Someone who skydives...Not someone who has done one tandem but hangs out at a DZ or here.

To be a skydiver you must be jumping.

If you used to skydive, you were a skydiver.

If you did one tandem, you did a skydive (sort of).

I used to do Martial arts all the time, I don't still call myself a martial artist since I have not done it in 10 years.

I was in the Army, but now Im out...I don't call myself an infantryman anymore.

I was married, I'm no longer a "husband" since I got divorced.

Now Im nice to everyone who comes out to make a jump. But it kinda pisses me off to hear people claim they are skydivers when they have made one jump.

No amount of hanging out at a DZ or posting here will make you a skydiver. Thats kinda of like saying you watched all the NASCAR races this year so you are now a NASCAR Driver.

And many folks get treated badly when they try to act like something they are not. This is true in every thing. Go to a DZ and act like you know it all, and you will get treated badly...But go on a SCUBA trip and act the same way you will get treated badly as well. Step on to a Basketball court and act like you have mad game, when you really can't throw the rock, you will get treated badly.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[freeflir29 0]

"Fuck the tandems!"

"Do we have time?"

[JRock 0]

Ditto....

[kelel01 1]

Ron,

I'm sorry; I see the extremely logistical point you are making, but to me skydiving is different. We're like a family, and when someone makes a jump and then clearly seeks to join our family, they should be welcomed, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Also, it seems to me that someone who makes "just one tandem" skydive and then seeks out dz.com just might have an interest in continuing in the sport. Call me crazy!

We should nurture that interest and welcome them with open arms. And if they are talking about something you don't want to hear (other than "skydivers are f***ing crazy"; that would tick me off a smidge), DON'T FUCKING READ IT!

There, I've said my piece. Again.

Kelly

[Ron 7]

Quote

I'm sorry; I see the extremely logistical point you are making, but to me skydiving is different

To you, not me. And its your right to accept that one jump wonder as a full fledged skydiver.

I don't and won't. And most other sports will not either.

I guess since I have gone golfing once Im a golfer as well?

Quote

We're like a family, and when someone makes a jump and then clearly seeks to join our family

Yep and part of being in the family is to jump out of planes. Not having once years ago jumped from one, then spent 5 years talking about it.

Quote

Also, it seems to me that someone who makes "just one tandem" skydive and then seeks out dz.com just might have an interest in continuing in the sport. Call me crazy!

Ok you are crazy.

Fact is there are several folks on here that HAVE NEVER jumped! And several others than NEVER plan to. Why would they want to be called a skydiver? And why would we call them that?

There is nothing wrong with being a wuffo. Wuffo's are people too. I treat them all the same. However I'm not going to call a person who has never jumped but watches us all day a skydiver....

SKY-DIVER not sky-diver-watcher-and DZ.com poster.

You can be a DZ.commer without being a skydiver, but being a DZ.commer does not make you a skydiver.

Quote

We should nurture that interest and welcome them with open arms.

I welcome everyone with open arms...But Im not going to call them something they are not.

Quote

And if they are talking about something you don't want to hear (other than "skydivers are f***ing crazy"; that would tick me off a smidge), DON'T FUCKING READ IT!

How about if they are talking about something they clearly don't have a clue about? But act if they do?

Give it a few more years in the sport...you will understand my point of view.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[WrongWay 0]

Well, if ya wanna talk about jump numbers, I'd have to say when they finish their student progression. Otherwise, they're a skydiver in the making.

The only exception I'd come up with are the one jump wonders that come out, do one jump, and never plan to come back, then call themselves skydivers. If you make one jump and make plans to come back to go again, that's one thing, but never coming back to jump, you have no right.

If we're not discussing numbers, I think it's an attitude. Someone who shows up at the dz regularly and becomes part of our skydiving family, I consider them skydivers or future skydivers.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[kelel01 1]

Quote

You can be a DZ.commer without being a skydiver, but being a DZ.commer does not make you a skydiver.

Ok, that's really all I was trying to get at. I didn't enjoy the fact that a couple of one-jumpers and whuffos have been catching shit for posting here. That's all. Maybe I didn't make my point very well.

Kelly

[skyyhi 0]

I am new. . .only 5 skydives so far. . .but never did a tandem. Started with AFF 1.

My JM's that day and my FJC instructor the day before KNEW that I would come back and finish AFF. . .and then eventually get my license. They said it was something in the eyes.

EVERYONE there has made me feel very special - as they do with anyone who shows up and wants to jump. I have heard many of them say to the tandem jumpers " you are a skydiver now ". I truly did not feel like a skydiver until AFF 3 (release dive). At that point, I knew I was hooked and that this is something I wanted to do. . .but NO ONE ever made me feel any less a skydiver for only having jumped once. . .and now, when I am not there on the weekends, they wonder where I have been. . .

This family of people here RAWK!

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Ron 7]

Quote

Ok, that's really all I was trying to get at. I didn't enjoy the fact that a couple of one-jumpers and whuffos have been catching shit for posting here. That's all. Maybe I didn't make my point very well.

Well you made it seem like you wanted to kick me in the jimmy for not calling a wuffo a skydiver.

To be honest I don't know why folks that don't participate in the sport would be around a web site that is about that sport. But thats not for me to decide.

What I do hate is when someone that has no clue comes on here and tries to give advice. I know several folks with way less than 100 jumps that act (and talk a good game) like they know what they are doing. However having personal knowledge about some of these folks I know that the guy that gave the landing and downsizing advice is recovering from a broken femur. But you may not know that and listen to him.

I think that way to many folks on here have been here so long that they think they have the right to give SKYDIVING advice. They have read it so many times they think they have the right to try and teach it. Bad idea.

Let them hang in "talkback" forever, let them ask questions anywhere, but they should not give advice.

But they do. Same thing happens at the fire pit. Some guy with 20 jumps starts talking to the guy with 5 jumps and tries to help him stop his spinning....Uh don't do that!!!! Thats why we have instructors and coaches.

I have seen a person on here with 2 tandems talking to someone about downsizing.

Im not going to call someone that is not involved in the sport a skydiver. That does not mean they can't be on here (But I think it should mean they should not offer advice). Or hang out at a DZ (Although I wonder why they would want to). And it does not mean they are bad people....But it does mean they are not skydivers.

And if anyone wants to learn about the sport...trust me I'll teach them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kelel01 1]

Quote

Well you made it seem like you wanted to kick me in the jimmy for not calling a wuffo a skydiver.

LMAO! No, it's not about calling them a skydiver or not, really. It's about freedom to post. And to be fair, I ABSOLUTELY did not consider myself a skydiver until I did my first AFF jump, even though I did four tandems first. I'm sorry, I'm just a little fired up today. (And don't you men DARE blame it on PMS!)

However, I am starting to question whether or not I am worthy of such an important title even now, as I read more in the Sexuality thread.

Kelly

[Muenkel 0]

I guess my title is "Grounded Skydiver in the making". I've done two tandems, started Aff once and had to stop due to injury, started aff a 2nd time and got as far as level 5 and once again had to stop due to injury. I've been to the the tunnel 3 times. I have every intention of resuming aff as soon as I recover. I spend a lot of time in talk back because it's not an informational forum, but a place to meet skydivers. I lurk in the informational forums, so I can learn. I do not give advice that I am not qualified to give. I think about skydiving everyday of my life. But, if it will make you happy, I'll refer to myself as a "Grounded Skydiver in the Making."

Maybe people like me should have numbers also.

Chris

Skydiver in the Making #1

_________________________________________
Chris

[Ron 7]

Its not about making me happy. I could not care if you called yourself "queen of the purpule skies"

I would call you a skydiver...you are injured....Thats a big difference than some tandem student that will never jump again. Or some wuffo that never plans on jumping but likes to hang at the DZ.

Either way I could not care as long as you don't act like someone who knows it all and start trying to give advice.

Were these both skydiving accidents?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gmanpilot 0]

Quote

At what point are you a skydiver?

That's a tough one. I think it's a perception thing. I think good skydivers approach and react to things differently than others. In my ten years of skydiving, I have only met two non-jumpers who I knew would make good jumpers, and proactively brought them to the DZ for a tandem. They both were skydivers the second they left the aircraft, the tandem masters just went along for the ride. Actually, they were skydivers before they ever got to the DZ, they just didn't know it yet.

The vast majority of tandems are great folks who are just there for the amusement ride, (There are also, unfortunately, too many AFF students who fall into the same category) . They are no better or worse, and I am not making any qualitative distinction here. They are there to have a good time, but they are not skydivers, they are fun-loving passengers. They take home great memories and a video of the coolest amusement ride ever. I'm glad they are there too, they give the sport good exposure and make it possible for us to ride to altitude in a proper aircraft.

The true skydiver? She is the one who takes the tandem master for the skydive. He is the one who shows up at the DZ for the first time, not to be a spectator or a passenger, but to be the driver.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Were these both skydiving accidents?

First one was an injury I sustained in the tunnel at the beginning of my 1st AFF. I had a nerve injury in my neck and shoulder and lost control of my right arm.

Second was not skydiving related. I had a freak accident at home where I fell down a flight of stairs landing head first on a porcelain and concrete floor. My prognosis is a 12-18 month recovery from the time of the accident...which was in August.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[goose491 0]

I'd say I was with quade.. in that you are a skydiver when you skydive on your own... but... well, here's a different concept:

I present that I was born a skydiver and 'discovered' it when I decided to make my first jump.

I present that there are some with jumps under their belt.. who will continue to jump for some time... but are not skydivers.

I present that there are some that have not yet made a jump, have not even considered it yet... but are skydivers. (probably wondering what's wrong with them... why they never find anything exciting lol)

Just thoughts.
Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[kelel01 1]

Ok, I am NOT giving you attitude, but could you please explain this one?

Quote

I present that there are some with jumps under their belt.. who will continue to jump for some time... but are not skydivers.

Kelly

[Muenkel 0]

I love you Kelly.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Treejumps 0]

Yo Ron,

Thank you for articulating how I feel about the tandems. They're great people, and I enjoy being a part of their 1st jump (lots of videos). I encourage them all to come back, and do everything I can to make their jump a great experience, but as you said, it just does not make them "skydivers". This does not make me "skygod", or mean I have a huge ego or an attitude towards them, its just a fact.

I've worked with dozens of new jumpers teaching freefly, and will answer any questions from any jumper anytime. My opinion is based not on what I consider someone to be, but what they run around calling themselves. If you made one tandem and you are plannig on making a go at it, you are "learning to skydive", and that is what I think it is honest to tell others. When you can roll up to a DZ, manifiest, and jump on your own, then you are a skydiver. Its not derogatory, its just reality.

Relax.......

[goose491 0]

Quote

Ok, I am NOT giving you attitude, but could you please explain this one?

Quote

I present that there are some with jumps under their belt.. who will continue to jump for some time... but are not skydivers.

Kelly

Sure,

It's only if you're in agreement with the 'born-skydiver' theory.

Like people who decide after having finished a progression... or even obtaining a license, that the sport is not for them. Technically, they are skydivers whilst they are actively skydiving... but, were they really fitting the bill?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[kelel01 1]

You know, I think I'm the opposite. It wasn't until I did my first solo that I decided that it WAS for me. Graduating AFF and doing an uninstructed jump, for me, it was like I had a personal vendetta. I couldn't quit until I had accomplished my goal, but as soon as I did that solo, I felt like "part of the crowd". And now that I'm going on group jumps and having a blast playing in the sky with other people, I'm feeling more and more like a skydiver everyday. Just a little non-angry rant for ya.

Kelly

[WrongWay 0]

Quote

I love you Kelly.

Where's that brown noser icon.....

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[freeflygoddess 0]

This is going to be a sad and depressing responce so don't read it if you want to...

I use to feel that you became a skydiver when you commited your self to go through AFF...then I watched a friend go in...I have never trully felt like a skydiver until that day. That day I learned what this sport is trully about and just how much of a family we trully are. Now I am by no means saying that you have to see someone go in before you are a skydiver at all...I am just saying that I felt totally different about everything after that.

On a lighter, more goddessie note:
I am not a skydiver...I am a freeflying Badger!!!!