dgskydive 0 #1 January 21, 2004 I love em. They are the new ones with the Hard housings that won't slip out. They are built very nice. If you guys haven't seen them, look in the last months Parachutist.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #2 January 21, 2004 Velocity Sports Equipment- The makers of The Infinity. I have an Infinity and I love it. The risers are a great design.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #3 January 21, 2004 What are peoples thoughts on the Aerodyne "miniforce" risers?____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #4 January 22, 2004 After talking to Aubrey he has me convinced that everyone but RWS will be using them in a very short time. I can't remember the exact numbers, but he says that with the miniforce rings there should never be more then like 6 or 7 pounds of pull on the cutaway. No matter what is going on with the canopy. I might be wrong abut the pull force but it is pretty close to what he said. Maybe he will stick his head in here and tell us the exact numbers. The system is used by the military (not sure which one) for years is what I have been told. I never saw them in my 9 years in the Army. Maybe the French are using them?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #5 January 22, 2004 Damn I forgot to say who made them. Thanks Hookit!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 January 22, 2004 Maybe they have, only you'd never see em cos they put the rings on the wrong side of the riser ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #7 January 22, 2004 Usually I just see them running the other way everytime a fight breaks out! Oh shit, that may be a personal attack!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #8 January 22, 2004 I picked up a set last Sat at Velocity.. now if my new canopy I will be attaching them to would just get here.. they RAWK.. I love the nice big wide dive loops on mine.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Layton 0 #9 January 22, 2004 i have those on my new mirage.nice stuff and aint nothing like stuff that fits like it should.i dont know wether we measured right or if the staff at mairage just did a good job.anyways my container fits like a glove.***where are we going and why are we in this hand basket Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #10 January 22, 2004 QuoteVelocity Sports Equipment- The makers of The Infinity. I have an Infinity and I love it. The risers are a great design. I love Infinity!!!! Thanks to Kelly and Velocity Sports, me and Rich will have our containers replaced! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 January 22, 2004 That doesn't suck! Nice one VSE!---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #12 January 22, 2004 QuoteAfter talking to Aubrey he has me convinced that everyone but RWS will be using them in a very short time. I can't remember the exact numbers, but he says that with the miniforce rings there should never be more then like 6 or 7 pounds of pull on the cutaway. No matter what is going on with the canopy. After reading about Aerodyne's new Icon on Drozone.com's article on the homepage, I looked at the Icon at the Eloy boogie for that exact reason (a VERY HARD cutway). Me likey! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #13 January 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteAfter talking to Aubrey he has me convinced that everyone but RWS will be using them in a very short time. I can't remember the exact numbers, but he says that with the miniforce rings there should never be more then like 6 or 7 pounds of pull on the cutaway. No matter what is going on with the canopy. After reading about Aerodyne's new Icon on Drozone.com's article on the homepage, I looked at the Icon at the Eloy boogie for that exact reason (a VERY HARD cutway). Me likey! The inventor of the three ring system put the rings on the outside. I'll stick with his wisdom. Also, from what I can tell of the pictures of the Icon, the middle ring is not round, but oval. No thanks, seems like that could increase the chance of the rings locking up. No need to mess with tradition here since it is working great already. Icon will never be an option for me. Did you know that the RWS risers/rings were designed to be more efficient when they are being pulled on (added pressure) for situation like a spinning line twist?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ernokaikkonen 0 #14 January 22, 2004 The original/standard-size/large rings are even more efficient than the Miniforce ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #15 January 22, 2004 QuoteThe original/standard-size/large rings are even more efficient than the Miniforce ones. but they are big and uncool.... everybody knows you have to be cool hence everybody wants the small rings..... when i order my next rig though i think i'm gona get big rings..... don't really are to much for small risers and such........ won't have to worry about my slider traping my brakes anymore either..... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #16 January 22, 2004 The longer I skydive, the sillier I feel coming in to land with my slider behind my head to minimize drag and my mini risers cutting efficiently through the air - at a 1.0 wingloading. It is easy when you are new in this sport to wind up ordering cool-looking stuff that you have no use for. At least I didn't get triple risers. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aubsmell 0 #17 January 22, 2004 Hey guys, like I said I'm not a math wiz, but I'll put down an article about the system here to explain it way better than I could. all the pictures you can't see here, but that are refered too are on our website under the News tab/articles. [http://www.aerdyne-int.com/sport/default.asp] I hope this helps. Aubrey “Re-designing the three-ring release system” Author: Ian Bellis Over the passed several years we have heard and read about individuals that have had difficulty in breaking away from their main parachute. The accounts describe individuals that, much to their dismay, have encountered forces on their cutaway handles that were beyond their capability to pull. Many speculations have been offered regarding the cause of this phenomenon. Possible explanations have included: high “g” loading, higher wing loadings, smaller, more elliptical canopies, twisted risers, etc., etc. No one has a definitive answer. In 1998 however, The Relative Workshop commissioned a re-evaluation of the mini three-ring release system. The result of this study was a better understanding, and a new specification for the manufacture of three-ring systems. The adoption of cable housings (plastic or metal) in the risers, has also become a de facto standard, under the premise that twisted risers may play a role in increased pull forces. While no one could tell you with certainty that this is truly an issue, the feeling in the industry was “better safe than sorry”. Many manufacturers to date have doubts as to the validity of the “twisted riser scenario” and its effect on cutaway pull force. In early 2002, our design team, led by Michel Auvray (mini three-ring designer) set out to actually address pull forces at the cutaway cable. The result, after more than a year of development and testing, is the miniforce™[1] system. This patented new system actually addresses the engineering behind the three-ring release system and effectively reduces forces on the cutaway cable by an average of approximately 35% at any given loading. This reduction in cutaway force has been validated by our test team, at riser loadings of up to 10g and beyond! The basis for the improvement is an increase in lever arm distance at the middle ring. (See figure1) Figure 1 As you can see the center ring is actually lengthened. If we look at the engineering study that was done in 1998, we see the distance (d3) is now longer than on previous three-ring geometry. (See figure 2) Figure 2 Following the mathematics that were used to develop the current three ring specifications, we can now calculate the predicted loop force for the new system as follows: Reference: Collins, Kyle, “Advanced Three-Ring Technology” We can now compare the calculated (predicted) loop force for the old and new systems. This loop force is directly proportional to cutaway pull force. Figure 3 The new miniforce™ system is constructed from forged stainless steel and can be seen in Fig. 4 (below). Figure 4 Actual testing performed, verifies the predicted reduction in cutaway force. (see Figure 5) Standard Mini 3-ring system Loading on 1 riser Measured force on yellow release cable in pounds Newtons Pounds TEST 1 TEST 2 TEST3 TEST 4 AVERAGE 500 112.4 1.21 0.77 1.10 1.03 1000 224.8 2.42 1.65 1.65 1.91 1600 359.7 2.53 2.75 2.42 3.19 2.73 2000 449.6 3.08 2.75 2.92 3000 674.4 7.93 6.61 8.92 7.82 Aerodyne miniforce™ 3-ring system Loading on 1 riser Measured force on yellow release cable in pounds Reduction of force Newtons Pounds TEST 1 TEST 2 TEST3 TEST 4 AVERAGE 500 112.4 0.44 0.66 0.77 0.62 39% 1000 224.8 1.21 1.32 0.88 1.14 40% 1600 359.7 2.20 1.87 1.32 1.80 34% 2000 449.6 2.42 2.42 1.54 1.54 1.98 32% 3000 674.4 3.19 3.74 3.08 3.34 57% Average reduction of force on cable, Low and High removed = 37% Figure 5 The results speak for themselves! When we analyze the results of both theoretical and practical testing, we find the following design goals have been met. Reduction in breakaway pull force by 37% (avg) in all test modes. Manufacturing tolerances have been opened, resulting in greater reliability while maintaining the mechanical advantage of the system. Minimal cost impact to harness container manufacturers. Compatibility with existing systems in use. - Cable housings must be able to move up 1/2” (minimum), from current location. - Riser covers must not be located too close to three-ring assembly in order to ensure free release during harness distortion Easily tested by harness container manufacturers (same tests as current system) The engineers at Aerodyne have broken new ground and developed the most exciting improvement in release technology since the three-ring itself. We can now have a more efficient system, reducing cutaway pull forces in all situations. All of this technology is available as a standard feature on the new Aerodyne Icon harness/container, but most major harness/container manufacturers have already begun planning the inclusion of the miniforce™ into their new systems. The design team at Aerodyne has taken safety to heart by not only developing the system itself but also by designing the miniforce™ to be compatible with all existing mini three-ring harnesses. By simply installing a new pair of miniforce™ equipped risers, all of the force reduction benefits will be gained[2]."Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aubsmell 0 #18 January 22, 2004 This thing seemed to cut my article off, oh well like I said you can go check all kinds of infor on the miniforce risers on our website, and if for some reason you want some video of it in action feel free to email me, I have some quick time footage of actually cutaways and video of machine cut aways with twists and super high G forces. [email protected] Aubrey-0ut"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #19 January 22, 2004 How about putting it on the web site, or on skydivingmovies? ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #20 January 22, 2004 QuoteI love em. They are the new ones with the Hard housings that won't slip out. They are built very nice. If you guys haven't seen them, look in the last months Parachutist. I got a set of Infinity risers with the Aeorodyne rings a few months ago, I like them very much. And I really like how the housings are held in place. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #21 January 22, 2004 That is awesome Mark! I figured Kelly would do something for you guys over there. Glad to here you are getting taken care of. I wish I had some extra stuff to lend. I barely have one set of gear as it is.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #22 January 22, 2004 [coughs loudly trying to get Aubreys attention] I wonder wear I can get a set of miniforce rings that are just lying around? HMMMMMDom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #23 January 22, 2004 Esp if they are black mini triples ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #24 January 22, 2004 Seems I can't edit my previous statement - It has been pointed out to me that Aerodyne doesn't place the ring under the webbing, but in the traditional position - and you can get a typical three ring setup if you do not want the miniforce setup. Gotta admit - Aerodyne continues to impress me with their customer service, nice group of people over there._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #25 January 22, 2004 QuoteI can't remember the exact numbers, but he says that with the miniforce rings there should never be more then like 6 or 7 pounds of pull on the cutaway. No matter what is going on with the canopy. Based on the physics they describe - lengthening the lever arm - I think this is a good idea and will definitely make for lower pull forces (like their testing says). The only thing I would weigh against it is increased cost (not an issue if it's small) and increased hanging-up on cutaway (time / testing will tell). However, I should point out that their own literature says this design change reduces the cutaway pull force by 30% or more. (The higher the g-forces, the better the improvement their design offers, according to their test numbers.) "never more than like 6 or 7 pounds of pull" may be accurate, but if it is, then their numbers imply a properly-operating regular 3-ring system would only ever be 8 to 15 pounds of pull (before the risers, harness, or you break). Hmm. At first I thought this wasn't a big deal, but now I realize if I'm on my back spinning around under my malfunctioning main, I'd prefer a 6 pound pull to a 9 pound pull. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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ChasingBlueSky 0 #13 January 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteAfter talking to Aubrey he has me convinced that everyone but RWS will be using them in a very short time. I can't remember the exact numbers, but he says that with the miniforce rings there should never be more then like 6 or 7 pounds of pull on the cutaway. No matter what is going on with the canopy. After reading about Aerodyne's new Icon on Drozone.com's article on the homepage, I looked at the Icon at the Eloy boogie for that exact reason (a VERY HARD cutway). Me likey! The inventor of the three ring system put the rings on the outside. I'll stick with his wisdom. Also, from what I can tell of the pictures of the Icon, the middle ring is not round, but oval. No thanks, seems like that could increase the chance of the rings locking up. No need to mess with tradition here since it is working great already. Icon will never be an option for me. Did you know that the RWS risers/rings were designed to be more efficient when they are being pulled on (added pressure) for situation like a spinning line twist?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #14 January 22, 2004 The original/standard-size/large rings are even more efficient than the Miniforce ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #15 January 22, 2004 QuoteThe original/standard-size/large rings are even more efficient than the Miniforce ones. but they are big and uncool.... everybody knows you have to be cool hence everybody wants the small rings..... when i order my next rig though i think i'm gona get big rings..... don't really are to much for small risers and such........ won't have to worry about my slider traping my brakes anymore either..... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #16 January 22, 2004 The longer I skydive, the sillier I feel coming in to land with my slider behind my head to minimize drag and my mini risers cutting efficiently through the air - at a 1.0 wingloading. It is easy when you are new in this sport to wind up ordering cool-looking stuff that you have no use for. At least I didn't get triple risers. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aubsmell 0 #17 January 22, 2004 Hey guys, like I said I'm not a math wiz, but I'll put down an article about the system here to explain it way better than I could. all the pictures you can't see here, but that are refered too are on our website under the News tab/articles. [http://www.aerdyne-int.com/sport/default.asp] I hope this helps. Aubrey “Re-designing the three-ring release system” Author: Ian Bellis Over the passed several years we have heard and read about individuals that have had difficulty in breaking away from their main parachute. The accounts describe individuals that, much to their dismay, have encountered forces on their cutaway handles that were beyond their capability to pull. Many speculations have been offered regarding the cause of this phenomenon. Possible explanations have included: high “g” loading, higher wing loadings, smaller, more elliptical canopies, twisted risers, etc., etc. No one has a definitive answer. In 1998 however, The Relative Workshop commissioned a re-evaluation of the mini three-ring release system. The result of this study was a better understanding, and a new specification for the manufacture of three-ring systems. The adoption of cable housings (plastic or metal) in the risers, has also become a de facto standard, under the premise that twisted risers may play a role in increased pull forces. While no one could tell you with certainty that this is truly an issue, the feeling in the industry was “better safe than sorry”. Many manufacturers to date have doubts as to the validity of the “twisted riser scenario” and its effect on cutaway pull force. In early 2002, our design team, led by Michel Auvray (mini three-ring designer) set out to actually address pull forces at the cutaway cable. The result, after more than a year of development and testing, is the miniforce™[1] system. This patented new system actually addresses the engineering behind the three-ring release system and effectively reduces forces on the cutaway cable by an average of approximately 35% at any given loading. This reduction in cutaway force has been validated by our test team, at riser loadings of up to 10g and beyond! The basis for the improvement is an increase in lever arm distance at the middle ring. (See figure1) Figure 1 As you can see the center ring is actually lengthened. If we look at the engineering study that was done in 1998, we see the distance (d3) is now longer than on previous three-ring geometry. (See figure 2) Figure 2 Following the mathematics that were used to develop the current three ring specifications, we can now calculate the predicted loop force for the new system as follows: Reference: Collins, Kyle, “Advanced Three-Ring Technology” We can now compare the calculated (predicted) loop force for the old and new systems. This loop force is directly proportional to cutaway pull force. Figure 3 The new miniforce™ system is constructed from forged stainless steel and can be seen in Fig. 4 (below). Figure 4 Actual testing performed, verifies the predicted reduction in cutaway force. (see Figure 5) Standard Mini 3-ring system Loading on 1 riser Measured force on yellow release cable in pounds Newtons Pounds TEST 1 TEST 2 TEST3 TEST 4 AVERAGE 500 112.4 1.21 0.77 1.10 1.03 1000 224.8 2.42 1.65 1.65 1.91 1600 359.7 2.53 2.75 2.42 3.19 2.73 2000 449.6 3.08 2.75 2.92 3000 674.4 7.93 6.61 8.92 7.82 Aerodyne miniforce™ 3-ring system Loading on 1 riser Measured force on yellow release cable in pounds Reduction of force Newtons Pounds TEST 1 TEST 2 TEST3 TEST 4 AVERAGE 500 112.4 0.44 0.66 0.77 0.62 39% 1000 224.8 1.21 1.32 0.88 1.14 40% 1600 359.7 2.20 1.87 1.32 1.80 34% 2000 449.6 2.42 2.42 1.54 1.54 1.98 32% 3000 674.4 3.19 3.74 3.08 3.34 57% Average reduction of force on cable, Low and High removed = 37% Figure 5 The results speak for themselves! When we analyze the results of both theoretical and practical testing, we find the following design goals have been met. Reduction in breakaway pull force by 37% (avg) in all test modes. Manufacturing tolerances have been opened, resulting in greater reliability while maintaining the mechanical advantage of the system. Minimal cost impact to harness container manufacturers. Compatibility with existing systems in use. - Cable housings must be able to move up 1/2” (minimum), from current location. - Riser covers must not be located too close to three-ring assembly in order to ensure free release during harness distortion Easily tested by harness container manufacturers (same tests as current system) The engineers at Aerodyne have broken new ground and developed the most exciting improvement in release technology since the three-ring itself. We can now have a more efficient system, reducing cutaway pull forces in all situations. All of this technology is available as a standard feature on the new Aerodyne Icon harness/container, but most major harness/container manufacturers have already begun planning the inclusion of the miniforce™ into their new systems. The design team at Aerodyne has taken safety to heart by not only developing the system itself but also by designing the miniforce™ to be compatible with all existing mini three-ring harnesses. By simply installing a new pair of miniforce™ equipped risers, all of the force reduction benefits will be gained[2]."Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aubsmell 0 #18 January 22, 2004 This thing seemed to cut my article off, oh well like I said you can go check all kinds of infor on the miniforce risers on our website, and if for some reason you want some video of it in action feel free to email me, I have some quick time footage of actually cutaways and video of machine cut aways with twists and super high G forces. [email protected] Aubrey-0ut"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #19 January 22, 2004 How about putting it on the web site, or on skydivingmovies? ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #20 January 22, 2004 QuoteI love em. They are the new ones with the Hard housings that won't slip out. They are built very nice. If you guys haven't seen them, look in the last months Parachutist. I got a set of Infinity risers with the Aeorodyne rings a few months ago, I like them very much. And I really like how the housings are held in place. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #21 January 22, 2004 That is awesome Mark! I figured Kelly would do something for you guys over there. Glad to here you are getting taken care of. I wish I had some extra stuff to lend. I barely have one set of gear as it is.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #22 January 22, 2004 [coughs loudly trying to get Aubreys attention] I wonder wear I can get a set of miniforce rings that are just lying around? HMMMMMDom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #23 January 22, 2004 Esp if they are black mini triples ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #24 January 22, 2004 Seems I can't edit my previous statement - It has been pointed out to me that Aerodyne doesn't place the ring under the webbing, but in the traditional position - and you can get a typical three ring setup if you do not want the miniforce setup. Gotta admit - Aerodyne continues to impress me with their customer service, nice group of people over there._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #25 January 22, 2004 QuoteI can't remember the exact numbers, but he says that with the miniforce rings there should never be more then like 6 or 7 pounds of pull on the cutaway. No matter what is going on with the canopy. Based on the physics they describe - lengthening the lever arm - I think this is a good idea and will definitely make for lower pull forces (like their testing says). The only thing I would weigh against it is increased cost (not an issue if it's small) and increased hanging-up on cutaway (time / testing will tell). However, I should point out that their own literature says this design change reduces the cutaway pull force by 30% or more. (The higher the g-forces, the better the improvement their design offers, according to their test numbers.) "never more than like 6 or 7 pounds of pull" may be accurate, but if it is, then their numbers imply a properly-operating regular 3-ring system would only ever be 8 to 15 pounds of pull (before the risers, harness, or you break). Hmm. At first I thought this wasn't a big deal, but now I realize if I'm on my back spinning around under my malfunctioning main, I'd prefer a 6 pound pull to a 9 pound pull. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
