Marijuana and Skydiving. Good, bad, indifferent?

[andrewstewart 0]

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First, there are no shades of gray when your actions endanger others.

Risk is a lot more compex topic than you seem to understand. There is a difference between the perception of risk and actual risk. The risk of you being killed by a skydiver who has had a smoke is far, far less than your risk of being killed driving to the dropzone. Why, then, are you not indignant about the dangers of cars? People drive when they are tired or depressed all the time - and yet they are technically not breaking the law.

I maintain that there are people who smoke and jump who can outfly you in every way, and are far less of a "threat" to your safety than someone with 50 jumps spiralling down over the landng area.

It's all relative.

[happythoughts 0]

The most important thing is to not do acid. It is a waste of money cause you can't time the peaks for the exit.

[mjosparky 3]

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There is a difference between the perception of risk and actual risk. The risk of you being killed by a skydiver who has had a smoke is far, far less than your risk of being killed driving to the dropzone.

Do you have a facts to back this up or are you just running you mouth again? I think you just want to argue. To drive drunk/stoned is stupid, case closed.

Me thinks me smells Troll.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[souleh 0]

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Reminds me of the time I drove home drunk from the Hamptons with a cop on my tail all the way.
Eventually he got bored because I stopped at every stop sign and red light while matching every speed limit (all 18 of them) exactly. Never gave the guy an excuse to pull me over.
Hee! Hee!
Ah, the things we do when we are young and foolish!

Alright for some, after 11pm here (UK) the cops can pull you over without any reason at all, for a 'spot check'. Probably a good idea.

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[jerry81 10]

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To drive drunk/stoned is stupid, case closed.

Look, what we're trying to say here is that if you looked at all the people likely to jump/drive stoned, you'd find that a certain percentage of them can do so without endangering others in any way. But since the majority of them couldn't, saying it's generally a bad idea is more or less right.
Saying it's outright stupid/insane... as many have done on this thread only tells me that people have a strong emotional basis for their opinions and probably won't allow them to change even a bit.

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[diverdriver 5]

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Look, what we're trying to say here is that if you looked at all the people likely to jump/drive stoned, you'd find that a certain percentage of them can do so without endangering others in any way. But since the majority of them couldn't, saying it's generally a bad idea is more or less right.
Saying it's outright stupid/insane... as many have done on this thread only tells me that people have a strong emotional basis for their opinions and probably won't allow them to change even a bit.

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Strong emotional basis? Yep, you're right. You don't have the fucking right to hook yourself in front of the whole USPA BOD nearly hitting several kids and a few adults on a dock killing yourself! You don't have the fucking right to make us clean your shit up! And you don't have the right to make us deal with your aftermath. Fucking bullshit this is!

Don't ever fucking get on my plane! I can never trust you or anyone like you to jump sober. I'll always have to have an eye out for you so I'll make it easy. You are not welcome on my plane ever.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[skyjuggler 0]

Okay yes its a troll but....

One of the things I hate about these forums is that when people share their opinions, and they dare to differ from others, occasionally they get a bit of abuse. Some good points have been made, and subsequently ridiculed.

However, I could not live with myself if I hurt someone else from being high, stoned, loaded etc... Therefore I am against jumping high at this current moment in time, perhaps I will change my opinions, but I don't go around preaching this fact. Undoubtedly senses tend to be effected by stimulant abuse but there are some interesting points.

Unless you have lived under a stone, there are plenty of people who jump regularly or have once, jumped under the influence. It happens. Also some of these people are amazing in the sky, not because they are stoned, but because they are bloody good. A comment was made that some people jumping under the influence would fly the arse off those posting here, I agree, I can think of a few.
More importantly, I am more scared of jumping with some people who reckon they can do everything and whose personalities are more dangerous than the effects of dope. Once again, I do not agree with jumping 'high' (excuse the pun), but would more worry about the standard, and skills of the person.

So instead of jumping on people, how about sharing opinions and comments, acknowledging the experiences of others. Might learn something I guess

Also, I am very sad for responding to a troll. Bravest Dog is quite funny though. Gives me a smil when I see a thread started by him / her!

[neoteng 0]

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The most important thing is to not do acid. It is a waste of money cause you can't time the peaks for the exit.

thats gold

[mjosparky 3]

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Look, what we're trying to say here is that if you looked at all the people likely to jump/drive stoned, you'd find that a certain percentage of them can do so without endangering others in any way. But since the majority of them couldn't, saying it's generally a bad idea is more or less right.
Saying it's outright stupid/insane... as many have done on this thread only tells me that people have a strong emotional basis for their opinions and probably won't allow them to change even a bit.

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Strong emotional basis? Yep, you're right. You don't have the fucking right to hook yourself in front of the whole USPA BOD nearly hitting several kids and a few adults on a dock killing yourself! You don't have the fucking right to make us clean your shit up! And you don't have the right to make us deal with your aftermath. Fucking bullshit this is!

Don't ever fucking get on my plane! I can never trust you or anyone like you to jump sober. I'll always have to have an eye out for you so I'll make it easy. You are not welcome on my plane ever.

That just about covers it. There are no shades of gray.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jerry81 10]

Well, thanks for proving my point, although you apparently read more in my message than I actually meant to say. If I don't consider jumping stoned as completely stupid as some of you does not automatically mean I generally condone it, or even practice it myself (I don't, just to set the record straight).
Sorry if I struck a nerve with my comment, but I stand by it. If you feel I'm unsuitable to fly with you just because of the way I see things, not because of my actions, then I guess I'll have to live with that...

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[mjosparky 3]

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So instead of jumping on people, how about sharing opinions and comments, acknowledging the experiences of others. Might learn something I guess

Show me where I jumped on someone other than A/S. Check his history. And I did share my opinions, Driving, jumping, flying while under the influence of drugs or alcohol is dangerous. After spending 30 years seeing the results of this behavior, how about you acknowledging my experiences and admit that I may know something about the subject? Having an open mind runs both ways.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skyjuggler 0]

I thoguht about not posting anything but I will.

I happen to agree with your following statement:

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You don't have the fucking right to hook yourself in front of the whole USPA BOD nearly hitting several kids and a few adults on a dock killing yourself! You don't have the fucking right to make us clean your shit up! And you don't have the right to make us deal with your aftermath

For sure you are right. But people do this stuff without being high. Also you obviously are very passionate about your views, and after having read some of your posts over the last few years, I think you like to help people and share your views and I would not say you preach. But come one, bullying people with comments like that with comments such as having an eye out and not welcome on your plane, is that going to help anyones views on the topic.

World Champions have and will and have jumped high not only on grass but a shit load of other harder stuff. I will continue to jump with people who may be high, but not because of their toxicity status but because they are bloody good jumpers.
I do not wish to jump drunk or stoned because as I have mentioned previously I think it is irresponsible and I have no right to endanger others from the effects. But, the sad fact is, sober stupid or unfortunate actions also result in terrible events.
Just my 2 cents, hope you can respect that.

[mjosparky 3]

I can accept your view but I cannot respect it. When good men do nothing, bad things happen. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. By not acting you are saying this behavior is OK.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skyjuggler 0]

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Show me where I jumped on someone other than A/S. Check his history

Okay, see below.

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Do you have a facts to back this up or are you just running you mouth again?

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how about you acknowledging my experiences and admit that I may know something about the subject?

Undoubtedly your experiences with the Fire Department can not be argued with. And no doubt you are very passionate about your experiences as I sure you have seen some incrediblely irresponsible acts.
In Skydiving we all know people have different goals, hurdles, battles. For example some people are scared for 100's of jumps, where as others may be forunate to not be so scared after 5 jumps whilst obviously respecting the sport. My point is there are different experiences, not to mention abilities in this sport. I would like to say that being good doesn't mean you can or do jump stoned.
To say there is a link between being wasted and reactions / behaviour, I totally agree. To blanket everyone with the same brush and say jumping stoned may lead to acidients, well I don't think that can be said.

However the ironic thing is, I agree with you, jumping high is not a smart move in my humble opinion. I don't do it, nor do I like it, but for sure some jumpers do. I'm not going to stop jumping with someone just because they smoke a joint. I think there are more important credientials to it than that.

[diverdriver 5]

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For sure you are right. But people do this stuff without being high. Also I obviously are very passionate about your views, and after having read some of your posts over the last few years, I think you like to help people and share your views and I would not say you preach. But come one, bullying people with comments like that with comments such as having an eye out and not welcome on your plane, is that going to help anyones views on the topic.

World Champions have and will and have jumped high not only on grass but a shit load of other harder stuff. I will continue to jump with people who may be high, but not because of their toxicity status but because they are bloody good jumpers.
I do not wish to jump drunk or stoned because as I have mentioned previously I think it is irresponsible and I have no right to endanger others from the effects. But, the sad fact is, sober stupid or unfortunate actions also result in terrible events.
Just my 2 cents, hope you can respect that.

Bullying? Probably. But then again it is my ticket and my time that is on the line when you hook into a pond and die or cutaway from a spinning mal at 200 feet and die. These things have actually happened. And then you have to listen to the BS here about how unsafe we are being. It might shape how you view the subject too. I had a good friend once take one drink of wine and then the clouds cleared and we were on a call. I stopped her from jumping. She was very indignant. Sorry. You drank alchohol within 8 hours of jumping (I believe the SIM says 12 hours between drinking and skydiving but that may have changed) you're not getting on my plane let alone having done it less than 1 hour beforehand.

It is illegal. It involves putting my job/livelyhood on the line. You're not going to do it and if you think it is ok for others to do it (even though YOU would never do it) then I can't trust you. I can't trust you to tell me if you know someone is high. And now you are an accomplice to my problems. I have no tolerance for that. I've filled out enough paperwork in my time. And on this issue, yah, I'm pretty hot about it. I've stayed out of this thread pretty much till now. It's a troll thread. But it's the other responses here that are disturbing.

Skydiving is about brotherhood and trust. We have to trust each other up there because it is a dangerous environment. What part of jumping out of a plane does not seem dangerous to you? I know all about the days of old with jumpers and their off landing "survival kits". Those days are over in my book. If I see it or am told about it I will investigate further. And then you are not getting on my plane. Period. I hold the ticket. The FAA says I have the power. I am Pilot In Command. There is no one more responsible with what goes on in and around that plane than the PIC. Period. I have studied aviation lawsuits and accident reports for a long time. These have all shaped my rigid view of this subject. I will not tolerate it.

Just for perspective, in 9 years of flying skydivers I have only actually banned one person from getting in my plane. Jerry lists himself as being in Sloviania so I doubt much he will be near my plane but people do travel. I am making it abundantly clear to all who do read this. Do not get high or drink and expect to get on my plane. I am watching for you. And I will watch out for the other pilots out there. I will do my best to keep you off the plane. Period.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[Amazon 7]

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If you really want to enjoy a skydive Acid aka LSD is more discreet, the colors are more vivid, The old DZ is now a new one all the jumpers on the load are new, airplane ride to altitude is a blast

I remember some guys doing that shit back in the 70's...That is just totally whacked. Sometimes you have to wonder if some of the no pulls that you used to hear about back then were related.

[kallend 1,623]

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First, there are no shades of gray when your actions endanger others.

Risk is a lot more compex topic than you seem to understand. There is a difference between the perception of risk and actual risk. The risk of you being killed by a skydiver who has had a smoke is far, far less than your risk of being killed driving to the dropzone. Why, then, are you not indignant about the dangers of cars? People drive when they are tired or depressed all the time - and yet they are technically not breaking the law.

I maintain that there are people who smoke and jump who can outfly you in every way, and are far less of a "threat" to your safety than someone with 50 jumps spiralling down over the landng area.

It's all relative.

I think you miss the point. Nobody's judgement improves as a result of booze or pot. Whether or not they have good air skills is irrelevant. Loss of motor skills may come way later than loss of judgement.

If someone is going to jump with impaired judgement, then I'd rather be elsewhere.

Just thinking its appropriate at all is, IMHO, poor judgement.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[benny 0]

Hey sparky, I'm just wondering, with those 30 years of experience... How did you know those people were stoned... I mean, considering the fact that THC stays in the system for up to 30 days, they could have very easily been stone cold sober, yet test positive. Testing positive for THC proves nothing. Hell, eat a poppy seed bagel and you can test positive for opiates.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[gmanpilot 0]

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I will continue to jump with people who may be high, but not because of their toxicity status but because they are bloody good jumpers.

I do not wish to jump drunk or stoned because as I have mentioned previously I think it is irresponsible and I have no right to endanger others from the effects.

These two statements are completely unreconcilable. How can it be irresponsible for you to do it, and not for others? Toxicology does not descriminate between talent or the lack thereof.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[andrewstewart 0]

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I think you miss the point. Nobody's judgement improves as a result of booze or pot. Whether or not they have good air skills is irrelevant. Loss of motor skills may come way later than loss of judgement.

If someone is going to jump with impaired judgement, then I'd rather be elsewhere.

Just thinking its appropriate at all is, IMHO, poor judgement.

Wow, this is the first time that I've seen you write something that I disagree with. I feel sad :-(

But I think you're wrong. Is someone who has 5000+ jumps and is on the Pro Swoop Tour, who has had one smoke really *more* of a risk to you in the air than an overconfident newbie with 50 jumps? You see how I'm saying that it's all relative.

Saying that *anyone* who has had a smoke is somehow automatically going to be impared to the point where they smack into someone in the air or under canopy is just not true.

It's not as simple as that, that's all I'm saying.

[andrewstewart 0]

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If I see it or am told about it I will investigate further. And then you are not getting on my plane. Period. I hold the ticket. The FAA says I have the power. I am Pilot In Command. I will not tolerate it.

is you nickname "Mr Fun" by any chance?

[kallend 1,623]

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I think you miss the point. Nobody's judgement improves as a result of booze or pot. Whether or not they have good air skills is irrelevant. Loss of motor skills may come way later than loss of judgement.

If someone is going to jump with impaired judgement, then I'd rather be elsewhere.

Just thinking its appropriate at all is, IMHO, poor judgement.

Wow, this is the first time that I've seen you write something that I disagree with. I feel sad :-(

But I think you're wrong. Is someone who has 5000+ jumps and is on the Pro Swoop Tour, who has had one smoke really *more* of a risk to you in the air than an overconfident newbie with 50 jumps? You see how I'm saying that it's all relative.

Saying that *anyone* who has had a smoke is somehow automatically going to be impared to the point where they smack into someone in the air or under canopy is just not true.

It's not as simple as that, that's all I'm saying.

I can recite the entire periodic table of the elements when I've had too much alcohol to be a safe driver. Demonstrating a skill is not the same as demonstrating good judgement.

When I'm in the air with a beginner, I know what to expect.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skyjuggler 0]

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These two statements are completely unreconcilable. How can it be irresponsible for you to do it, and not for others? Toxicology does not descriminate between talent or the lack thereof.

I beieve it is irresponsible. Someone else might not. Everyone has different ideas. I state my opinion, but am not responisble for anyone else's. Their choice is their responsibility. As is it your choice not to jump with someone who is high if you so choose.

Read my other posts. Regarding saftey in the sky, I believe there to be other important factors other than solely if someone is high.
Also, I like the relaxed feeling I get from jumping and don't want to get it artificially. I want to be responsible for me. Chris has obviously pointed out the legal implications. I guess mine is moral stand point.
I also happen to believe that some skydivers are quite capable of jumping stoned. So many factors to mention. Tolerance, effect on an individual not to mention ability. Once again, i do not think or ever have stated that there is a link between being good and being high, just that some people who are very good do jump high or have done. Only my experience and perception.

So I definately stand by the quote below, despite it being potentially to the detriment of my own reputation.

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will continue to jump with people who may be high, but not because of their toxicity status but because they are bloody good jumpers.

[slug 1]

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If you really want to enjoy a skydive Acid aka LSD is more discreet, the colors are more vivid, The old DZ is now a new one all the jumpers on the load are new, airplane ride to altitude is a blast

I remember some guys doing that shit back in the 70's...That is just totally whacked. Sometimes you have to wonder if some of the no pulls that you used to hear about back then were related.

They probably thought it was a good idea at the time

This thread was started by someone who doesn't exist, in a public forum. Who knows they could be a reporter gathering background info for a pulitzer prize BS story.

Most of the people up to this point have responded no no no and I believe them because I know it's true.

What you do in the privacy of your bedroom is your business this is a public forum on the internet. What's next talking about having sex with dead people.

Do I really exist? Good acid dude! where's the floor Thanks I found it without anyones help.

R.I.P.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I think you miss the point. Nobody's judgement improves as a result of booze or pot. Whether or not they have good air skills is irrelevant. Loss of motor skills may come way later than loss of judgement.

If someone is going to jump with impaired judgement, then I'd rather be elsewhere.

Just thinking its appropriate at all is, IMHO, poor judgement.

Wow, this is the first time that I've seen you write something that I disagree with. I feel sad :-(

But I think you're wrong. Is someone who has 5000+ jumps and is on the Pro Swoop Tour, who has had one smoke really *more* of a risk to you in the air than an overconfident newbie with 50 jumps? You see how I'm saying that it's all relative.

Saying that *anyone* who has had a smoke is somehow automatically going to be impared to the point where they smack into someone in the air or under canopy is just not true.

It's not as simple as that, that's all I'm saying.

There you go again rationalizing by the most extreme example you can think of. Bottom line is using alcohol and/or drugs while driving, flying a plane, boating, skydiving, scuba diving, rock climbing etc.. is pretty damn stupid and not only is the person doing it risking their own life, but also the lives of everyone around them.

Many of us don't really know how we are going to react to an emergency situation every single time. The fact that a skydiver has reacted to a malfunction calmly and correctly once, doesn't mean they are going to react to it the same way again. I will take my chances with someone who is stone-cold-SOBER before I will jump with an irresponsible idiot who thinks it's cool to jump buzzed, high, stoned or drunk.