Skyrose7 0 #26 February 2, 2004 I belong to the Church of the Sky as well. I find nothing more soul-satisfying than to get up early Sunday morning and get on that first load. It's wierd, everything seems more beautiful on sunday mornings. I don't think it is necessary to go to a church to know that I believe in God. I can thank and praise God anywhere I go. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The mind is like a parachute--it works better when it is open. JUMP. MaryRose Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cudlo 0 #27 February 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteOK, am I the only one to notice how eerily trollish this post is? I mean, I'm cool with skydivers voicing their faith, but this is a troll if I've ever seen, and a prosthelytizing troll at that! Benny, the version of "troll" that you use is much more sinister than what is exhibited here. I have had my own struggles with faith over the years. One thing that I found warming was that faith was there for the taking any time. There were those who were very strong in their faith but did not shove it down my throat. Some seem to think that any mention of faith is an attempt to convert. Why would you feel so uncomfortable about people who do profess (not confess) their faith during certain conversations of the day? The mear mention of Jesus, God, or Holy Spirit tends to make some feel unseasy? Why is that? If you are certain of your beliefs then you should not worry. But if you do feel uneasy then maybe there is something nagging at the back of your mind that you are supressing. It may be that you do want to believe but it is not fashionable for you right now. It's ok. Faith is there for the taking whenever, where ever. I don't walk a straight line in my faith. Life is a rocky road. I have recently felt it more though. And I'm happy about that for me. I hope you are satisfied in your own life. No, I do not belong to the CSA but I am in a Cross jump picture that appears on their website. That was a cool thing for me to be involved in. It has a special place in my heart and mind. Well to be honest. No, i have no problems with people professing their faith. Go at it, I'm truly happy for you. And no, it isnt a nagging feeling that something is wrong for me. Its the simple fact that since i was 10 people have been hounding me to join the faith, convert, take jesus into my heart, or any other way it could be phrased. Someone even made a picture of me in their version of hell and asked me if thats what i wanted!!! I'm gonna be quiet before I end up on a 3 hour rant.. BSBD, Charlie_________________________________________ "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #28 February 2, 2004 And I guess I just have to reply to my own post....... I am certainly not trying to convert anyone here. Faith is something you have to seek for yourself I think. There are those around you that can be an influence not in the way that they pressure you to believe as they do but that show you their convictions even when others may scoff. I am by no stretch of the imagination a "good Christian". I have messed up plenty. I just hope that I can find inner peace with all that I worry about. It will be a lifetime struggle. "Peace to all" may seem hollow to some. Unwanted by others. But, I do hope everyone that has read this thread finds a path to continued faith in God. Threats of fire and brimstone usually don't attract as many to that idea. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #29 February 2, 2004 Yeah, I'm a member, and I go to church most every Sunday. They expect me to. Who does, you say? My congregation. I'm their pastor. I do jump a lot of Sunday though right after church -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #30 February 2, 2004 QuoteWell to be honest. No, i have no problems with people professing their faith. Go at it, I'm truly happy for you. And no, it isnt a nagging feeling that something is wrong for me. Its the simple fact that since i was 10 people have been hounding me to join the faith, convert, take jesus into my heart, or any other way it could be phrased. Someone even made a picture of me in their version of hell and asked me if thats what i wanted!!! I'm gonna be quiet before I end up on a 3 hour rant.. BSBD, Charlie Oh, I know that many have taken that tactic with many more than just you. When the JW come to my door to save me I do feel uncomfortable with that. Don't they know I'm already baptised? Don't they know I was an alter boy? This topic certainly does conjure up strong emotions on both sides. And yes, I know exactly how you can end up on a 3 hour rant. I didn't leave the church for 16 years for no reason at all either. I had my issues too. But then, the thing that I thought that really kept me from going back to church was that I am not here to judge others on how well they are acting as Christians. It's not my decision. I have to walk this path for me. The community is there to help. That is how it should be. I'm sorry you have been turned off by the idea of organized religion. Because to many, it does mean many postive things. Boy, if I post more on this thread I have a feeling some will think I'm preaching. I think I'll go back to just being quiet on this again. Thanks for reading anyhow. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #31 February 2, 2004 I have gone to church every Sunday for as long as I can remember. The only times I miss, is due to illness or some sort of emergency. Unfortunately, since I was injured in August, I have not been able to make it to church that much and I really miss it. I do pray daily and I always include ALL dz.commers in my prayers. At the risk of sounding like a fanatic, I have to admit that when I did my first tandem, I truly felt the presence of God...which was not the first time in my life. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flygirl03 0 #32 February 2, 2004 QuoteAt the risk of sounding like a fanatic, I have to admit that when I did my first tandem, I truly felt the presence of God...which was not the first time in my life. You will feel his presence on Wednesday too. And not so long after, I pray that you will be able to feel that presence in a sky dive ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ earthbound misfit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #33 February 2, 2004 Most folks made some thoughtful comments in answer to the question raised, and I think that's great - I personally believe God is real, and have had a close relationship with God for a very long time as a Christian. This does not demean anyone who does not call themselves by that term, and although narrow to some people, it does define my relationship with God. So please, no flames for me suggesting that everyone that does not believe like I do is full of c*** - that is NOT being said here. Quite the contrary, one of the most unfortunate things I am hearing is that people of strong faith sometimes try to beat folks over the head with the message - and I know a lot of folks have been turned off by that. I think it is important that we remember God is about Love. It is not about talking down to, preaching, bashing, coercising someone to think as we do on this topic. The message is really about God cares about us, and we should therefore exhibit that we care about other people by what we do, how we live, what we say. I think that is by far the greater evidence of God in one's life - and I believe this is how God would have us live. I don't believe that going to church is the only measure of whether someone's faith is real or not. I really do think it is about their life, what they stand for, how they treat other people. And in this regard, we are all very flawed - but for those who feel really grateful to God for everything, including the ability to skydive, I think it is a very natural outflow. After all, there can be no love, without gratitude. Some folks may not believe in God, and even resent the fact that folks are professing their faith on this thread. That is their perogative - but, of course, so does that right apply to those whose faith in God is tied in an important way to skydiving. But Skydiving is so close to death, that I think it extremely relevant to discuss. After all, how many have went out to dive not knowing it was their last day on earth? - One low hook turn away from the eternal? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #34 February 2, 2004 Quote. . . do you pray in your church....and to whom? Almighty God gave you the sky...do you ever thank Him??????What do you do for Him???? Yes, to God, worship, and not just in he sky but also in a pretty building every Sunday and Wednesday. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #35 February 2, 2004 I know it's not that popular to be a Catholic nowadays, but that's what I am....and very proud of it. One thing I have found is that it is common for folks to believe that Catholics are judgemental and are proclaiming people to hell. To clarify, this is completely against the true teachings of the Catholic faith. One of the worst sins a Catholic can commit is to judge someone else and tell them they are damned. It is our belief, that we stand before God alone and have to answer for our own actions or omissions. As for my Catholocism and skydiving; what helps me is when I get a little nervous, I say to myself: "What makes you think it's easier for God to get you up there than it is for Him to get you on the ground?" When it's my time, it won't matter if I am in my bed or at 13.5K. Hell, I almost lost my life on my own staircase. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #36 February 2, 2004 Chris, Did see the photo, and would really love to have been involved in the cross jump - I have not heard of or seen this before - Are you aware of any other jumps - or a place to see any videos, or other stills like this? Also, how did this particular jump come to be (how organized, who planned it, etc.) and where was it done? While we are talking about the CSA, have you had any involvement a Christian Pilots Association? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exegesis-Logos 0 #37 February 2, 2004 You are absolutely right in so many areas... I too am a Christian... a disciple of Christ... so what should people think of when they read that statement? What are you thinking of as you read it now? Unfortunately, due to alot of 'Convert Christians', the feelings and emotions that are conjured up at the term Christian are ones of pressuring, lying, money hungry, sheep. I am so sorry that it is that way. As LuvToFly has stated... God is Love, and he loves me, You, and everyone he created... I long for the day when all who claim to be Christians will truly extend the love, patience, and forgiveness that they themselves have recieved from Him. People are so quick to jump on others in fear, anger...bitterness... you won't have to look through to many threads to see that this is true. I know that Some of you who really aren't down with the idea of people talking about God have really been hurt by some people who claim to be all 'righteous' and such... and for that I am truly sorry. For all of those who do not agree with me in these matters, or maybe simply just don't believe in God... I have one thing to say to you... How I treat you... the way I respond to you... the way I feel about you... has nothing to do with any of those things. I care about you in no less a way than I care about someone who agrees with me. I ask you to at least try, if it is possible, to leave what you think you know about Christians or religious people at the doorstep. Not all who claim Christiananity are the same.... and they all certainly don't reflect who Jesus is. I know that I have been hurt by my fair share of 'Christians', and so to find out what God was really all about, I had to take a look at Jesus for myself, and not just at someone who claims to hold to his moral principles. Truth sets Free. So love to all of you... Christian or not, religious or not.... I have love for all of you. 1 sky... 1 God... ?Jumps... Life is a precious thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #38 February 2, 2004 I agree with your experience about the Catholic teachings, Chris. Just yesterday, I read an article in an old "Details" magazine about what it takes nowadays for a young man to have a "calling" into priesthood. I was really touched by this article. I truly respect anyone who is able to make such a difficult choice of leading a life of true sacrifice, such as the Catholic priest or nun. I would not classify myself as a Catholic now, but I was a very pious Catholic as a child and young woman. The Catholic religion is still a beautiful religion, which I truly respect within my heart. Currently, I also feel "God", whatever you perceive God to be, in everything that surrounds me. I do feel that being in freefall can be almost "heavenly"...perhaps the true freedom that our "soul" seeks to have. I don't know. Honestly, I don't feel that "religion" is what I believe in because it is man-made. I believe in what is and always has been...energy, elements, love, life, death. Realizing what my beliefs encompass is my personal journey to make. (I find "Bible thumpers" trying to convert others almost cultish.) I know that the door is always open for me to return to my church or to find another belief system which works for me. That is all that I seek. Edited: I feel that I am more "spiritual" (yes, I believe in God), rather than "religious". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #39 February 2, 2004 I go to Church. Johnrich said 'The Sky is our church' not sure if he was joking or not but thats exactly how I feel about being up there, closer to God. Theres plenty of Skydivers that belive in God.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #40 February 2, 2004 1 Thesolonians 4:17, if thats not about Skydiving then what is? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #41 February 2, 2004 AmenWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
souleh 0 #42 February 2, 2004 I'm a baptised Catholic also, although not currently practicing. I think the key issue with religion is individuality; it doesn't have to be a strict following to a set of rules or ways of life - unless you want it to. For me, my religion - 'my' God - is totally personal. I have a communication and peace with that presence, but because it's personal to me I "worship" (if thats the word that's appropriate) in the way that suits me. If you feel you have to spread the word and evangelise, that's okay - but it simply doesn't suit a lot of people. At the end of the day, religion isn't so much about attaining a level of acceptance in the eyes of others (and God) - instead, it's a guideline of how to live a good life. How to be respectful and kind to others, and treat people in a way that's fair and hopefully encourages them to act the same way to others. God, church, prayers, whatever - if you can manage that you're doing a darn sight better than me - and good luck to you! Well, that's how I see it anyway - but as I say - it's personal, everyone has their own interpretation.. and that's great! Nick. (edit for my inability to type coherantly!) 'buttplugs? where?' - geno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #43 February 2, 2004 Hey there Nick - It seems that at the heart of belief is the ability to trust God. And whether that be expressed individually, in a most private setting - or in a group - it seems that if one really believes, there is a trust dynamic set up. One trusts God to be there, to care about them, and to empower them to live the best life they can. Some do not agree with that, I understand, but it seems that this trust would be a minimum requirement for a relationship with God. I mean, eventually, one cannot love what one cannot trust. I believe it is all about relationships - and the relationship one holds with God is probably just about the most important one for those who believe such - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #44 February 2, 2004 Quoteseems to me -- and this is purely based on personal experience -- that A LOT of the skydivers i've come across have an aetheist/agnostic view.... ....anyone else agree? i don't know many skydivers that get up & go to church on Sunday mornings either (maybe it's just always been blue skies?! ) I am one of these agnostic skydivers, and proud to be. Personally, I find the dropzone to be my own "church" of sorts, and if there is in fact a God, what better way to praise then to fly in the beautiful playground he made for us. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #45 February 2, 2004 Exegesis-logos and LuvToFly have both put it very well. I know that through the amazing love of God, He sent his Son to pay the sin debt for everyone, and if you accept that fact, and serve Him in your everyday life, then you will be His forever. The reason I put a "tag" on the end of my postings as I do, it might just make someone think who is searching for a reason or meaning to life and if someone feels he/she is heading in the wrong directuion with their life, Go allows U turns. Walk in the ways of your heart an in the sight of your eyes, but know thou, for all these things God WILL bring you into judgement (Eccleiastes 11:9) I have love for everyone, and do my best to treat everyone with care, just as I would treat the person I cherish most in life, and this I do because Jesus Christ said that is what He expects of me if I belong to Him May God keep you all safe...on every jump ....and in everything you do. Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flygirl03 0 #46 February 2, 2004 This thread is just another way that God is getting his message out. Through Forgiveness and His Love, all are Saved † Have a GREAT day, everyone! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ earthbound misfit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #47 February 2, 2004 QuoteHey there Nick - It seems that at the heart of belief is the ability to trust God. And whether that be expressed individually, in a most private setting - or in a group - it seems that if one really believes, there is a trust dynamic set up. One trusts God to be there, to care about them, and to empower them to live the best life they can. Some do. There are denominations where this isn't necessary and where God is an entity in which presence you want to be on your toes. I won't use the word cult since the definition of a cult is "any other religion/denomination than your own" Quote Some do not agree with that, I understand, but it seems that this trust would be a minimum requirement for a relationship with God. I mean, eventually, one cannot love what one cannot trust. I disagree. There are many examples, too numerous to count, of people loving someone they cannot trust. Also, unconditional love is just that - without condition. If you put up a condition (i.e: God must be trustworthy), then you do not love God unconditionally. And if you don't love God unconditionally, you're in big doo doo come the hereafter (if you're a mainstream Christian). Quote I believe it is all about relationships - and the relationship one holds with God is probably just about the most important one for those who believe such - True. It's also true that trust isn't necessarily a factor deciding whether a relationship is important or not. Man, I *am* nitpicking today. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #48 February 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe sky is our church! Holy cow ... I finally found something to agree with you on. "Holy cow" ? What? Are you Christians making fun of the Hindus now? In the OT, just before Canaan was invaded, they gave them a choice. Convert or we'll kill your blaspheming butts. Try to hit a middle ground. If they'll give us their cows, it's all good. I love that tune "Cow-minders daughter". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scotman 0 #49 February 2, 2004 What an awesome God...that would show such mercy and grace to me...no matter how many times I "miss the mark" and screw up in my everyday life(so to speak).I can see the Lord's blessings in my life everyday!! All I have to do is look at my wife and I know how blessed I am. I LOVE the way God gets my attention...it's usually when my attention SHOULD be where it is not. I LOVE to skydive and I have never landed a canopy without thanking him for bringing this "world of freefall and canopy flight" into my life. I pray that people will SEE christ through the words and ACTIONS I show THEM. It's NOT my job to "save souls"...It's my passion to be thankful that God IS real...and loves me and know that I am saved. ROMANS 10:9 I PRAY YOU ALL HAVE AN AWESOME WEEK AND WEEKENDS FILLED WITH THE BLESSING OF FREEFALL. FLY SAFE AND SMART. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #50 February 2, 2004 I dont go to church. I DO believe in god. I say a prayer for myself and my fellow jumpers on each and every load So far so good! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
