So . . . lemme get this straight . . . we're GOING to be doing this?

[quade 3]

Ok, call me silly, but why haven't we been doing this since, oh, I don't know, September 12, 2001?

LINK

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

because that would've made too much sense.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Blahr 0]

Quote

Ok, call me silly, but why haven't we been doing this since, oh, I don't know, September 12, 2001?

You are silly

[Sebazz1 2]

Just a hunch so I am probably wrong but maybe this report just surfaced and they have been doing this electronic snooping in the Afgan mountains already. I mean they already had the technology right? Yeah The U.S. I'm sure has been using it already...

Just a thought. Ya know.

[Paige 0]

When was the technology developed? Maybe it was after they were over there and could experience the terrain and weather first hand?

Who knows why we do what we do?!?!?

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Malfunction 0]

My geuss is tt is an election publication. GWB is trying to sway voters with this. Probably been going on for a long, long, long long time.

Maybe they should get a couple of military personelle and "Comb the desert" - throwback to Spaceballs

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Ok, call me silly, but why haven't we been doing this since, oh, I don't know, September 12, 2001?

LINK

Maybe they had to wait for the equipment to be freed up from snooping on the folks back home.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[chachi 0]

They have been doing this since the beginning. I watched a TV report interviewing high ranking generals and they were talking about jsut this stuff.

~Chachi

[aeromobile 0]

My guess is that they narrowed the search area down to a workable size where before the search area was too large to use this type of surveillance.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Ok, call me silly, but why haven't we been doing this since, oh, I don't know, September 12, 2001?

uh duh...

we have been.

and yes the search area is significantly smaller than it was 2 years ago because of our efforts, but diverting a few more assets and throwing some more money lets us fly LOTS more often...and it makes a bigger splash when you announce the additional funding before elections

typical politicians, and typical voters following right along...

does the ring in your nose hurt when they pull the string?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[BikerBabe 0]

Quote

Among the devices that will be in place within days are U-2 spy planes flying at 70,000 feet, taking pictures, using radar and intercepting communications.

Unmanned Predator drones, flying closer at 25,000 feet, are equipped with cameras that can spot vehicles and people and special radar that can operate through clouds.

heh heh heh.

I used to work on the sensors for these airplanes. It's funny to read an article written by someone who clearly has no idea what he's writing about.

1. the synthetic aperture radar on the Predator is rarely used. It sucks. Besides, the generals all like the little flying TV sensor too much to have it switched out with the radar (the Predator can only carry one or the other). "special radar" *snort*

2. Radar=radio frequencies=see through clouds. What do you want to bet the U-2's radar can see through clouds? Or the radar gun the cop points at you? Or air trafic control radar? ALL radar sees through clouds!

Actually, I bet most of the U-2s were pulled off afghanistan and sent to Iraq...they are probably being re-tasked now that hostilities in Iraq have cooled...oh wait.

But if Osama's hiding in a cave, the best U-2 radar, predator real-time video, or satellite imagery isn't going to be worth jack shit. Sorry, but rock is a pretty good shield for radar.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

***
But if Osama's hiding in a cave, the best U-2 radar, predator real-time video, or satellite imagery isn't going to be worth jack shit. Sorry, but rock is a pretty good shield for radar.

P'raps he's got a transponder with a unique squawk code so he'll show up more easily.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

Actually, my favorite part of the article was this bit:

Quote

Ground sensors may also be placed along mountain passes to listen for vehicles.

EG&G has been making sensors of this type for decades. They're cheap, easy to place and can monitor traffic 24/7. They're used around sensitive military installations all around the world. It would be -trivial- to have laid some to cover lines of drift (roads, passes) to give us a heads up on escape routes.

You mean to tell me they haven't done this yet?

What the heck were they waiting for?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Ok, call me silly, but why haven't we been doing this since, oh, I don't know, September 12, 2001?

LINK

AHEM, COUGH, COUGH I can neither confirm or deny that information.

[kmcguffee 0]

Quote

EG&G has been making sensors of this type for decades. They're cheap, easy to place and can monitor traffic 24/7. They're used around sensitive military installations all around the world. It would be -trivial- to have laid some to cover lines of drift (roads, passes) to give us a heads up on escape routes.

You mean to tell me they haven't done this yet?

The Army uses different types of ground surveillance radar (GSR) in tactical environments. I've had several GSR units attached to my platoon when I was a scout platoon leader. They are extremely effective if they have a good crew. They require a 24/7 crew though because the operator has to identify hits as dismount, wheeled vehicle, tracked vehicle, donkey, etc.

Unmanned ground sensors would be giving false hits constantly and waste manpower trying to determine what the hits were. Especially in an environment where the target area is not sealed (like a combat zone). My platoon had the unmanned ground sensors but we never used them because they went off with every rabbit and raccon that walked by.

If there is enough intelligence to narrow down the GSRs search area they become very effective. My guess (and this is only a guess) is that the Army has been using these sensors but just now has been able to focus them on specific areas to find UBL. The press got a hold to this information and interpreted it to mean that they are just now being used in theatre. I've seen very few news stories about the military that were entirely correct. They constantly call Bradley's a tank, get ranks incorrect, and misidentify units. I've corrected a few MSNBC reporters on their mistakes. They thank me and do it again later. I get the impression they don't really care.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[Deuce 1]

I immediately thought of you. Give it up!

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

I immediately thought of you. Give it up!

WHAT? WHO? ME? WHAT'D I DO? Dunno what your talking about

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Actually, my favorite part of the article was this bit:

Quote

Ground sensors may also be placed along mountain passes to listen for vehicles.

EG&G has been making sensors of this type for decades. They're cheap, easy to place and can monitor traffic 24/7. They're used around sensitive military installations all around the world. It would be -trivial- to have laid some to cover lines of drift (roads, passes) to give us a heads up on escape routes.

You mean to tell me they haven't done this yet?

What the heck were they waiting for?

having done the sidestraddle hope in full combat gear less than a hundred yards from those ancient sensors i can tell you they really really suck...

the new stuff we've fielded in the last year is like comparing your wagon to my Ferrari, but of course training, fielding and implementation takes time..

using the old shit was close to pointless, except under very controlled conditions, so ‘we’ chose not to except for force protection where there was much better control of the traffic in the area and so LOTS fewer false cues..

your trying rather hard to make our military leaders and collection managers look silly without understanding the limitations of the sensors at all.... stop freaking on the election day propaganda and recognize that the military has been doing everything they could with the resources available and the priorities given since day 1.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

I used to work on the sensors for these airplanes

my radar's bigger than your radar

even if yours is sexier

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[quade 3]

Quote

having done the sidestraddle hope in full combat gear less than a hundred yards from those ancient sensors i can tell you they really really suck...

Interesting.

The ones I'd seen, 1998ish, seemed to work fairly well on even the smallest of vehicles when placed roadside. I don't think that the OBL entourage would be traveling very stealthy, off lines of drift or on foot, but that's just an assumption on my part. I assume they'd be using some sort of vehicles.

I've never touched one in a combat situation, so I have to take your word for the older model's efficacy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zenister 0]

set up and maintained properly, under ideal conditions, they were ok for vehicle traffic, but i think your mistaken about the signatures we are looking for in most cases, as is who ever wrote that report, but i really never expect much out of news sources when it comes to military capabilities, we dont tell them much and they dont listen to what we do say....

we've gotten soooooo much better its very nearly emplace (and some lovely methods work now too) and forget, and we can often tell vehicle type...

you've heard the cliché' but its true enough to have been adopted by a number of surveillance teams and platforms...

"you can run, but you'll only die tired"

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[leroydb 0]

they already have been doing this. CNN is jsut trying to make a story.

remember the news is a business

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Beerlight 0]

Quote

Quote

Actually, my favorite part of the article was this bit:

Quote

Ground sensors may also be placed along mountain passes to listen for vehicles.

EG&G has been making sensors of this type for decades. They're cheap, easy to place and can monitor traffic 24/7. They're used around sensitive military installations all around the world. It would be -trivial- to have laid some to cover lines of drift (roads, passes) to give us a heads up on escape routes.

You mean to tell me they haven't done this yet?

What the heck were they waiting for?

having done the sidestraddle hope in full combat gear less than a hundred yards from those ancient sensors i can tell you they really really suck...

the new stuff we've fielded in the last year is like comparing your wagon to my Ferrari, but of course training, fielding and implementation takes time..

using the old shit was close to pointless, except under very controlled conditions, so ‘we’ chose not to except for force protection where there was much better control of the traffic in the area and so LOTS fewer false cues..

your trying rather hard to make our military leaders and collection managers look silly without understanding the limitations of the sensors at all.... stop freaking on the election day propaganda and recognize that the military has been doing everything they could with the resources available and the priorities given since day 1.

Zen, plus evidently they haven't heard the term "loose lips sink ships".......

Seems like a lot of ex-mil (well maybe they were in, who really knows) personnel on here willing to chat about shit they probably shouldn't be talking about in a public forum.....Go get em Zen!

[SkydiverRick 0]

I've seen very few news stories about the military that were entirely correct.

[Zenister 0]

honestly i think this board (and its numerous military members) are very very good about not saying things that might compromise security. I know i have to think about it when we start talking about certain subjects, but you can find far more on FAS about what we do and how we do it, than you can here....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.