wildblue 4 #51 January 14, 2003 QuoteLosing $20 isn't the same as having someone inside you that you don't want there. Bad analogy I'm not saying it's the same. I'm saying the precedent of me having to take an ambiguous statement and determine what you actually meant by it is. Or even if your statement should cause me to ask for clarification.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moodyskydiver 0 #52 January 14, 2003 hmm...this is an interesting case.I'm not going to favor one side over the other just yet despite my own personal beliefs and the fact that I'm a Criminal Justice major.I think I'm gonna send this to my Criminal Justice prof and see what she has to say.Might turn this into an interesting class discussion for my Fundamentals of Criminal Law and Court Systems and Practices classes. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andie787 0 #53 January 14, 2003 The other guy was also charged with rape and the girl apparently said more than was reported in that editorial. There are several differing accounts: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/1732032 http://www.metnews.com/articles/john010703.htm There's always more to the story, isn't there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #54 January 14, 2003 Sterilize all three. None of them should have the ability to breed. They are all too dumb. Shit like this makes me sick. Every one of them should have known better. You might not want to accept this, but a third of the responsibility rests squarely on that girl's shoulders. She should have said "I have to go home" right off the freaking bat rather than go into a room with two boys, get naked and all felt up. Adding insult to injury, she does both of them. There's better ways to get attention. This is another reason to love your children more and raise them better. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,146 #55 January 14, 2003 QuoteSterilize all three. None of them should have the ability to breed. They are all too dumb. Sometimes I think the world would be a better place if everyone were born sterile, and had to do something to prove fitness to be a parent in order to have it reversed. Of course, the problem with that is that the people in charge would make it easier for people like them to breed. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #56 January 14, 2003 >Sometimes I think the world would be a better place if everyone were > born sterile, and had to do something to prove fitness to be a > parent in order to have it reversed. I think the world would be a better place if you were born sterile and just had to press a button on your butt or something to be able to get pregnant. Just knowing all parents actually wanted their children would be an improvement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #57 January 14, 2003 Here, Here!! In the immortal words of the legendary and wise Keanu, "You need a license to buy a gun...you need a license to drive a car...hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any asshole be a father." mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #58 January 14, 2003 Hear hear billvon! QuoteIt's the man's responsibility to make sure he understands. If he doesn't understand, he should have asked. He didn't. I call BS. Sorry, but I do. It is as much the woman's responsibility to make sure that the man understands as it is of the man. Sex is supposed to be an expression of intimacy. Or something. Whatever. But having to clarify everything is rediculous. This is becoming a legal contract, not sex. A forceful NO works. If not, kick him. If that doesn't work, it's rape. Agreed 100%, even 200%. But when you say "I have to go home" you should not expect the guy to stop immediately. And no reasonable legal system should either. As the previous links show, it seems like the legal system doesn't, which is good. We, the men, are human beings too you know. We at least deserve to be told. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #59 January 14, 2003 Quote Quote Quote Allowing 2, not just one, but TWO teenaged boys to undress and fondle her, admitting she enjoyed it and having sex with each doesn't mean "yes". Even if she enjoyed it doesn't mean she didn't want to stop halfway through. She has that right to do so. This case in particular bothers me. It was just plain wrong. Sex with 2 guys. One finished, and wasn't charged. The other was in the process, the girl "had to go home", and he gets blasted with rape. Something is just not right there, so: I'm stepping out of this thread before I lose any friends. agreed. to me it seems that she suddenly had an attack of conscience, or "what are they going to think of me.." i'm not saying the guy was right at all but..just a shitty situation all around, but rape??? the judge should sentence her & the other guy to some time too. there is plenty of guilt to go around here it seems.. i'm outta this one as well, sometimes there are no good answers and no one wins.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #60 January 15, 2003 QuoteBut the behavior I saw the three women who work w/ me really made me ashamed for them. They simply did not like the guy and he was fired. You knew this and kept quiet about it?? FFF A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn. "Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #61 January 15, 2003 >I do not sympathize with men at all. Less than 1% of claims are false . . . I was once accused of it by a woman who wanted a job (I was an interviewer.) It happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #62 January 15, 2003 i have been accused of rape after NOT continuing a sexual encounter. it was a living hell for several years. it does happen.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harro 0 #63 January 15, 2003 My feeling is that when someone says NO. Its over right there. Just my feelings.Jumpy Jumpy?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #64 January 15, 2003 QuoteMy feeling is that when someone says NO. Its over right there. Of course, that's the entire point of this thread. Since when is "I got to get home" the same as "No"? "I got to get home" can mean any one of a number of things from simply, "after this one I'm done" to "faster, faster" to whatever the hell she really meant, but up until now I would have never thought it would have been functionally the same as saying "No" and that any further action would be considered rape. Fortunately, this is pretty gray and I'm pretty sure this will be overturned on appeal.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #65 January 15, 2003 "I have to go home" , sounds more like a query for taxi service than a cry of rape. What if she falls asleep during the act or just can seem to remember if she changed her mind or not. This certainly downgrades the concept of rape. When it can be a case of SHE said he said, after she changes her mind. I suppose it could also be rape if the ring turns out to the Cubic Zeconium. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #66 January 15, 2003 I can't resist any longer (no pun intended). We have a legal system where legislators pass laws and judges render decisions that impose unrealistic standards on society as a whole, and sometimes after the fact. In the case in question, several people made decisions about whether it was appropriate for the sex act to continue as long as it did, and some of those people (not necessarily the participants) made decisions about the consequences to the participants of engaging in the act. Several? Yes. The two participants for starters. Either one could've stopped, but neither did. And neither clearly asked the other to stop (if her statement was clear, there wouldn't be any discussion about whether or not it was clear or what it meant). Who else? The judges. And in the end, only the judges' opinions counted. In Georgia it is legal for 16 year olds to have consensual sex. Last year it was illegal. What's different now? Last year people presumably went to jail for doing something they can legally do now? Where's the sanity in that? And whose business is it anyway? It's no wonder to me that people don't respect the legal system or trust it. And I find it very interesting that Congress exempts itself from laws that they pass that impose burdensome and, some would say, impossible restrictions and requirements on private employers. Anyway, I don't think this is as much about what she said or what she meant, or what he thought she meant, as it is about Government and the legal system. What used to be private matters between indiviuals are now matters that legislators and judges poke their noses into (which means they apply their morals, not yours, to your conduct). Okay, I think I'll go get a Diet Coke now, if that's okay with Your Honor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #67 January 15, 2003 ....hummm, Criminal Justice. My 1st class in that subject at a Military College was when I was 9yrs old. My father taught it. "Actual JUSTICE is like the statue, solid and defined but, the Legal system is more like that statue's shadow, a mere likeness wishing to be Justice". I am the 1st of Men in my family(Father's side) to NOT be a Law Enforcer (back to Scotland & Ireland before "Police"). My "ex" was raped and my hostility was hazardous. I had to change my major to Med. due to it. 9 years of couciling. Inappropriate sex is one thing, unwanted sex is punishable by the ultimate price. I learned that I can't save the "World" because it doesn't want to be saved but, still every person is someones child that deserves to NOT have their life devestated and scarred. You have to try *every* day to do your best... to do your part. -Grant_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #68 January 15, 2003 The answer to the question of "When is it rape?", is rather easy: It is rape whenever SHE decides it is (or was). To date this is the single best argument for homosexuality! FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #69 January 15, 2003 Okay, replying to everyone, since I seem to be the only one with this viewpoint. I agree in that if she wanted to stop having sex, "I have to go home" was obviously not the best choice of words. However, I don't doubt that she wanted to stop having sex. As for the statistics, yes, despite the low number of false reports, it still happens, even to people I know. However, it is still much more likely for a woman to get sexually harassed and not report it than a man to get falsely accused. I find it upsetting that everyone is quick to say that she said the wrong thing. It doesn't say she has to say "no" or "stop" by law. She gave the best words she could to take back her previous consent. I guess the mentality shown here is what often prevents women from reporting it in the first place. "What if I didn't push him?" "I'm not sure what I said..." As I've said before, if no answer means no, shouldn't any suggestion of no also mean no? My guess is there was also more evidence of rape since he has been convicted (very difficult to do through our justice system.) Like Jess said, it is just an editorial, details are most likely missing. Adding: Someone mentioned what if she falls asleep during the act, that is rape in Indiana if a person doesn't stop. Sex with someone who is not awake is rape.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ECVZZ 0 #70 January 15, 2003 Haven't read this thread all the way through, and don't intend to. This particular case is, in my oopinion BULLSHIT! I find it interesting that the only dissenting judge is a female. To be brief, I believe if the female in question meant no then she should have said no; i.e...STOP! It's about time that men start suing women for the same kind of trivial shit to get a point across. Just because you start feeling guilty about what you participated in after the fact does not make someone else responsible for what you did. What about sleeping with a sober, ugly woman when you were drunk???? According to this, she should be held civally and criminally liable! Perhaps you said at some point during the encounter "I'm too drunk to screw". Then the fault is hers! Obviously, this girl participated in a three way, and afterward decided that she would feel better about it if she placed the responsibility on someone else. And my answer to this: Quote If a guy wants to stop halfway through, it is also his right. I agree. Get your nut before she does, jump up, and tell her "I have homework to do!". Should be o.k. then according to what I've read so far! PS- Flame away if you want to, but this kind of p/c bullshit makes my blood boil! G. Jones "I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #71 January 15, 2003 QuoteI believe if the female in question meant no then she should have said no; i.e...STOP! Yes, that is your belief. However, as said before, the law does not say that she has to say "stop" or "no" to not give consent. And, as I've said before, there is probably more to the case than posted here. Also adding: I am just amazed at how quick everyone is to dismiss this as "yet another woman crying wolf." People really think that stereotype is more common than it actually is. If you don't know all the facts, how can you assume anything?There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #72 January 15, 2003 READ MY entry above...../\_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ECVZZ 0 #73 January 15, 2003 Obviously she already gave consent, and to withdraw it should not require any party involved to play guessing games! How would you like to be asked repeatedly during sex; "Would you like for me to stop screwing you now???" Quotethe law does not say that she has to say "stop" or "no" to not give consent It also does not say that doesn't have to say "stop"! Poor baby...on the second guy she had second thoughts and didn't have enough self control to say stop. That makes him a rapist??? G. Jones "I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #74 January 15, 2003 I know I said I was outta this thread, but.... Quoteevidence of rape since he has been convicted (very difficult to do through our justice system.) That statment is just wrong on so many levels. Sexual intercourse is easy to prove, through lab and DNA. Once that has been proven, all it takes is the woman to say she was raped (or that she had to go home) and the case is over. Practically an instant conviction. I'll ask again, if 3 started in the room, 1 finished, and the second was in the process, where does rape come into play? Thank God I don't live in California, and God save us if the California mentality spreads this far east.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #75 January 15, 2003 QuoteHow would you like to be asked repeatedly during sex; "Would you like for me to stop screwing you now???" You obviously missed the point. She did say something in the meaning that she did not want to be in her current location. QuoteThat statment is just wrong on so many levels. I honestly wish you were correct. The rape kit is so invasive, and if not done within 24 hrs, is usually dismissed. It has to be done within 72 hours. You think three days is alot? Most definitely not. Unfortunately (as demonstrated here) women get labeled too often as "whore" "liars" etc to come forward quickly. Without a full rape kit (meaning photographs as well), my state will give no help in prosecuting a case. Kinda tough if you're a college student with no money...our justice system is expensive. I guess it's just sad that everyone is SO quick to say "whore" "slut" "liar." Maybe she screamed "I have to go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Maybe she tried to squirm (that's not really force) away. Who knows? Also, since she didn't prosecute the first guy, that leads me to believe even more that she's not lying. If she didn't want to look like a slut, wouldn't she have said "They both raped me!"There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
