Swapping risers with mains

[Blamey 0]

I brought a Javelin container with a smaller main and then swapped mains with a friend. We got a rigger to do the swap. I noticed that the rigger swapped the risers with the mains. So I now have a set of gray Mirage risers on my Rig and I assume my friend has a set of blue Javelin risers.

Is there a reason why the rigger would have swaped the risers? I'd rather have the risers that go with my rig. This is my first rig so I don't know too much about this stuff.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Is there a reason why the rigger would have swaped the risers? I'd rather have the risers that go with my rig. This is my first rig so I don't know too much about this stuff.

You can call it lazy or reasonable. I assume same size of risers are used on both gear. It is faster to swap with risers than open and hook up 8 pieces of line attachment.

[Gary73 8]

Risers are supposed to stay with the rig they were made for, but in this kind of swap it's way quicker to keep them with the canopy. Functionally it usually isn't a problem, as long as the RSL rings are in the same place on both rigs, but you're certainly within your rights to ask the rigger to do it the way you intended it to be done.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[airtwardo 6]

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I assume same size of risers are used on both gear.

Definitely something I would measure, too long or too short could make problems for ya.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[popsjumper 2]

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Is there a reason why the rigger would have swaped the risers? I'd rather have the risers that go with my rig. This is my first rig so I don't know too much about this stuff.

You can call it lazy or reasonable.

You're much nicer than I am. I would not call it reasonable. The risers go with the rig. Period.

An extreme example for demonstration purposes:
Thanks rigger, the risers I had were brand new. Now I have 10 year old risers of a different length.

To Blamey:
Assuming that you didn't approve the riser swap beforehand, tell your rigger to put YOUR risers back on YOUR rig....at no charge.

Now, I'm sure the rigger considered functionality and that the two sets of risers were functionally interchangeable but that's not the point.

As a side note, why didn't you swap out the canopies yourself? It's not hard to do and it doesn't require a rigger to do it. To my way of thinking, 31 jumps should have been taught about risers and line continuity and should know enough about their equipment to be able to accomplish this with little to no supervision.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[virgin-burner 1]

while i definitely agree on you about knowing your gear and being able to actually do that for yourself, some little tips should go along with it..

-hang your canopy up; it's much easier that way!

-if you de-tach (is that even a word!?) your main, put the slinks back on to secure them, so you wont end up loosing them somewhere in the mess, and to have an idea of where the lines went to begin with!

-make darn sure the steering-lines do actually pass the little ring on the riser!

-take your time and dont do it in the middle of night, or just with good lights!

i dont know that many people that actually did that exercise themselves, but it definitely is worth the trouble!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[skybytch 259]

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Assuming that you didn't approve the riser swap beforehand, tell your rigger to put YOUR risers back on YOUR rig....at no charge.

Assuming he was charged for the work in the first place. It only takes 5 minutes or so to swap mains on risers, not even worth charging someone for.

Makes total sense to me that a rigger wouldn't swap the risers, especially if they were asked to do it in the middle of a jumping day - it's not uncommon for jumpers to want to trade mains temporarily. If the jumpers didn't tell the rigger exactly what they wanted done, that doesn't make the rigger wrong. Guilty of not communicating well, perhaps, but not wrong.

[davelepka 4]

What do you mean by 'swapped' mains? Is this premanent switch, or are you just trying each others canopies?

If this is anything but a permanent switch, than leaving the risers on the canopies is the way to go. As others have mentioned, that way is a 5 minute swap.

Switching the risers could be a 30 min or an hour, depending on how it all goes. If the rigs are returned packed, that will push it closer to an hour, unoacked closer to 30 min.

In tersm of cost, even if you were charged for the not switching the risers, keep the pack jobs in mind. If both rigs were returned packed, that would add $10 to $20 to the cost. Two pack jobs normally cost $10, but riggers typically charge $60/hr. for labor, so your cost could be anywhere in between,

Now if the rigs were returned unpacked, and the risers not switched, you shouldn't have been charged more than $5 or $10 for the switch.

[Blamey 0]

So the story is that I bought the container and main (a 190) from one friend and then organized to swap ( permanently) the main for a larger canopy (210) with another friend who wanted to downsize. They organized to get the mains swapped so i wasn't really involved in that. I know they got the rigger to do the swap, not sure why they didn't do it themselves. I don't know what they told the rigger. I wasn't charged a thing, not sure if they were. The rigger is pretty cool and probably wasn't told the swap was permanent or was asked to do it quickly. I am sure he would have no problem swapping out the risers and I wouldn't mind doing it myself either. I'll chat to my friend who has my risers and sort it out with him, I just wanted to check that there wasn't a good reason that this wasn't done. All in all I am not bothered about why this happened but would rather have the risers that go with my rig.

As far a equipment knowledge goes I agree that I should know how to do the swap but probably wouldn't have done it. My excuse is that being on rental gear it can be pretty tough getting the time to play with a rig and get comfortable doing these types of things particularly when it might not be you jumping the thing next. Now that I have owned my container for 3 days I have stripped and put it back together about 10 times. Inspected every nook and cranny. I don't have a reserve in there (anybody got a spare 190?), So I have managed to have a good look and play around and would be quite happy to have a go at changing the risers (under supervision of somebody a little more experienced).

P.S. virgin-burner: Detach is a word.

[virgin-burner 1]

thank you!

do try it; you'll have way more gear-knowledge than most people in your "jumpnumber-class"..
AND, its kinda fun, too! you can still get your rigger to look at it closer before you actually jump it! i didnt, and as i somehow buried in my post, got a couple of "experience" out of it; still wouldnt trade it tough, and when i didnt ask my rigger to double-check, i was still kinda proud to have it done all by myself..

just like getting your very own, and very first rig, there's nothing that even remotely compares to it!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[davelepka 4]

Right-o. Now you know the score for the next time you need some rigging work. Also, the risers, toggles and d-bag/pc all go with the rig. The canopy, slider and links go with the canopy.

You can switch most risers to other containers provided they have the same sized rings, and if you use and RSL, it's on the same side on both rigs.

Technically, the d-bag/pc should not be switched from rig to rig, unless the rigs are the same brand and size. You can 'get away' with using a different d-bag in your container if the bag was built for a rig similar in size to yours, but the right way to do it is to keep the bag with the container is was made for.

If you guys want to do the 'full' switch and swap the risers, think about doing it with a rigger. If you do it wrong, it will take a rigger twice as long to sort out your mistakes, and they'll charge you for every second. If you work with a rigger, they'll be able to show you the 'easy' way to switch canopies around, and will be able to offer tips on varous related areas of the process, and it will be right the first time.

[billvon 2,400]

>The risers go with the rig. Period.

While there is nothing wrong with keeping the risers with the rig (or asking that they be sold with the rig, or selling them with the rig) it's very rare to see in actuality. We've sold maybe a dozen rigs over the years and bought a few used ones, and the risers didn't stay with the rig unless the main was being sold at the same time. In addition, we swap mains quite often with other people for various reasons (need a bigger canopy for a demo, or someone wants to try a Crossfire, or a canopy needs a reline) and the risers generally go with the canopy.

That's not to say that keeping the risers with the rig is wrong - just that if you want that to happen, you have to tell the other person/rigger what you want.

[wildcard451 0]

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>The risers go with the rig. Period.

While there is nothing wrong with keeping the risers with the rig (or asking that they be sold with the rig, or selling them with the rig) it's very rare to see in actuality. We've sold maybe a dozen rigs over the years and bought a few used ones, and the risers didn't stay with the rig unless the main was being sold at the same time. In addition, we swap mains quite often with other people for various reasons (need a bigger canopy for a demo, or someone wants to try a Crossfire, or a canopy needs a reline) and the risers generally go with the canopy.

That's not to say that keeping the risers with the rig is wrong - just that if you want that to happen, you have to tell the other person/rigger what you want.

When did the canopy companies start providing risers with canopy purchases? Must be news to me.

[riggerpaul 1]

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>The risers go with the rig. Period.

While there is nothing wrong with keeping the risers with the rig (or asking that they be sold with the rig, or selling them with the rig) it's very rare to see in actuality. We've sold maybe a dozen rigs over the years and bought a few used ones, and the risers didn't stay with the rig unless the main was being sold at the same time. In addition, we swap mains quite often with other people for various reasons (need a bigger canopy for a demo, or someone wants to try a Crossfire, or a canopy needs a reline) and the risers generally go with the canopy.

That's not to say that keeping the risers with the rig is wrong - just that if you want that to happen, you have to tell the other person/rigger what you want.

When did the canopy companies start providing risers with canopy purchases? Must be news to me.

He means that once a canopy is on risers, the risers will often move with the canopy, especially if it is a temporary move.

For example, all the PD demo canopies come on risers. You don't mess with those risers if you don't absolutely need to. You just take your main, with the risers, off the rig, and hook up the demo main, with the risers it is on.

Same thing will often/usually happen when a couple of friends are swapping canopies to get some test jumps.

[billvon 2,400]

>When did the canopy companies start providing risers with canopy purchases?

They've been doing it for years for demos. Most rental places also rent canopies on risers. At Square One, for example, you rent a container (including dbag and pilot chute) and then choose a separate canopy that comes on its own risers.

The only company I've heard of that sold risers with their canopies as a unit was Aerodyne, who used to provide risers with their AR-11 canopies. The big drawback there is that you can't choose your own risers. Personally I generally end up replacing my risers with VSE risers; they seem to be really well put together.

[wildcard451 0]

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>The risers go with the rig. Period.

While there is nothing wrong with keeping the risers with the rig (or asking that they be sold with the rig, or selling them with the rig) it's very rare to see in actuality. We've sold maybe a dozen rigs over the years and bought a few used ones, and the risers didn't stay with the rig unless the main was being sold at the same time. In addition, we swap mains quite often with other people for various reasons (need a bigger canopy for a demo, or someone wants to try a Crossfire, or a canopy needs a reline) and the risers generally go with the canopy.

That's not to say that keeping the risers with the rig is wrong - just that if you want that to happen, you have to tell the other person/rigger what you want.

When did the canopy companies start providing risers with canopy purchases? Must be news to me.

He means that once a canopy is on risers, the risers will often move with the canopy, especially if it is a temporary move.

For example, all the PD demo canopies come on risers. You don't mess with those risers if you don't absolutely need to. You just take your main, with the risers, off the rig, and hook up the demo main, with the risers it is on.

Same thing will often/usually happen when a couple of friends are swapping canopies to get some test jumps.

Yes, I know what you mean. Rental, demo, borrowing from a buddy, etc I wouldn't think of taking the risres off unless I want to use my own. Most of the time I do switch out the demo risers for my own due to a 2-4" difference in riser length.

However, the point I was trying to make it that when you buy a new sport canopy it does not come with risers. When you sell the canopy, the risers don't go with it, but stay with the harness/container instead.

[virgin-burner 1]

i got a new UPT rig last year; and i got a new rig from them as welll.. UPT got me a new rig with risers, while icarus just send me a canopy..

i still got around to put it on risers that were delivered, but yea, i've had to do it myself..

and if i ever sell my main, or my rig, the risers will go with the rig, while the main will go with nothing much else than the main-canopy instead.. :)

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[jenkincb00 0]

I agree that most skydivers can and should be able to do this, however, even this seemingly mundane task can cost you more in the long run if done improperly. If you have hard links people have a tendence to either put them on with the barrels going the wrong way or they over tighten them which cracks the barrels. Slinks can easily be put on improperly if you don't know how to do it. there is also non-cascaded A's and B's that could confuse younger jumpers not familiar with the gear.

Do as previously advised, under the supervision of a rigger. My .02

just an after thought to the original poster...did they change the pilotchute and D-Bag?

[airtwardo 6]

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I agree that most skydivers can and should be able to do this, however, even this seemingly mundane task can cost you more in the long run if done improperly. If you have hard links people have a tendency to either put them on with the barrels going the wrong way or they over tighten them which cracks the barrels. Slinks can easily be put on improperly if you don't know how to do it. there is also non-cascaded A's and B's that could confuse younger jumpers not familiar with the gear.

Do as previously advised, under the supervision of a rigger. My .02

just an after thought to the original poster...did they change the pilot chute and D-Bag?

Good advise, and just to add another .01 worth...

For those that don't know, the links with the canopy are NOT the same as the ones down at Home Depot...don't use/replace your 'french links' with a hardware store look-a-like.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jenkincb00 0]

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For those that don't know, the links with the canopy are NOT the same as the ones down at Home Depot...don't use/replace your 'french links' with a hardware store look-a-like.

Very good point! Only use appropriate rated hardware.

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[riggerpaul 1]

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Yes, I know what you mean. Rental, demo, borrowing from a buddy, etc I wouldn't think of taking the risres off unless I want to use my own. Most of the time I do switch out the demo risers for my own due to a 2-4" difference in riser length.

However, the point I was trying to make it that when you buy a new sport canopy it does not come with risers. When you sell the canopy, the risers don't go with it, but stay with the harness/container instead.

Bill's and my posts were basically addressing the post where someone said, "The risers go with the rig. Period. "

There's no argument that risers are part of a complete container system, and that you should receive appropriate risers when you buy any container, new or used.

And, as you say, a new canopy does not come with risers.

Bill's and my posts only meant to clarify that risers often stick with the canopy in the meantime - that it is not usually a safety issue that they often go along with the canopy except in the cases of permanent transfer of equipment.

The OP of this whole thread was really not too clear about the terms of this particular equipment mixing and matching.

Some quickly started saying that the rigger had done something wrong.

But, depending on the whole story, the rigger might well have done just fine.

[wildcard451 0]

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Yes, I know what you mean. Rental, demo, borrowing from a buddy, etc I wouldn't think of taking the risres off unless I want to use my own. Most of the time I do switch out the demo risers for my own due to a 2-4" difference in riser length.

However, the point I was trying to make it that when you buy a new sport canopy it does not come with risers. When you sell the canopy, the risers don't go with it, but stay with the harness/container instead.

Bill's and my posts were basically addressing the post where someone said, "The risers go with the rig. Period. "

There's no argument that risers are part of a complete container system, and that you should receive appropriate risers when you buy any container, new or used.

And, as you say, a new canopy does not come with risers.

Bill's and my posts only meant to clarify that risers often stick with the canopy in the meantime - that it is not usually a safety issue that they often go along with the canopy except in the cases of permanent transfer of equipment.

The OP of this whole thread was really not too clear about the terms of this particular equipment mixing and matching.

Some quickly started saying that the rigger had done something wrong.

But, depending on the whole story, the rigger might well have done just fine.

Gotcha. I wasn't trying to be a prick, but old habits are hard to break.

Agreed with you 100%.

[Blamey 0]

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just an after thought to the original poster...did they change the pilotchute and D-Bag?

Yup

[AggieDave 6]

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The only company I've heard of that sold risers with their canopies as a unit was Aerodyne, who used to provide risers with their AR-11 canopies.

That doesn't really count though, since that canopy had a 3 riser setup and no one else made/makes a set of risers like that as a stock set.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AndyMan 7]

Risers belong to the rig, end of story. While a rigger has authority to determine compatible components, he does not have authority to swap individual parts of a component to another system - although this is very frequently done. While it's common to see (for example) a Javelin with Vector risers, I believe this configuration is technically illegal.

The rigger should have taken the canopy off the risers when he switched the main.

You should get your risers back.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.