Swapping risers with mains

[billvon 2,426]

>The rigger should have taken the canopy off the risers when he switched
>the main.

That's the issue. That's no problem for a rigger to do - but you have to be clear that you want that done, because it's not a common thing to do.

[AndyMan 7]

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>The rigger should have taken the canopy off the risers when he switched
>the main.

That's the issue. That's no problem for a rigger to do - but you have to be clear that you want that done, because it's not a common thing to do.

The original poster sold his canopy to his friend. It is common to remove a canopy from risers when you sell it.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[danielcroft 2]

Three related points:
- Had a rig without original risers, the RSL attachment point was on the correct side but slightly further away. If I wasn't careful, it would pull the part of the RSL with the stiffener out of its keeper. Usually this would happen on the ground when I was pulling my slider back down as a result of pulling the risers down to full extension away from the rig. Voodoo rig, (generic) Infinity risers.

- I know how to detach and re-attach both risers and lines. I've done both several times. I've learned that attaching the slinks correctly per the manufacturers instructions is important even if there isn't a specific, reported reason why the way I did it (since been corrected) could cause a problem. The potential problem was explained to me by a rigger and skydiver who I respect and I learned to attach the slinks exactly per the manufacturers instructions.

- Demo canopy came with mis-matched risers and toggles. On opening, on several occasions, the toggles would come out of the keeper and I'd get half a brake fire. The issue was that the toggles were actually too short to fit in both keepers on the risers they were on. No appropriate toggles around to replace the offending toggles with so consensus was to sew the keepers tighter and to make sure the risers were straight (pushing the toggle into both keepers would result in a slight kink in the riser). I informed the company I got the demo from and they said they'd retire the risers or at least address the mismatch.

IMO, unless the rigger was given specific instructions that the swap was permanent then status quo would be to swap risers between rigs.

[Blamey 0]

Quote

>The rigger should have taken the canopy off the risers when he switched
>the main.

That's the issue. That's no problem for a rigger to do - but you have to be clear that you want that done, because it's not a common thing to do.

I agree with this i am not blaming anybody we all know each other well and it is not a big deal. I was originally asking if it was done for a reason as I'd rather have the blue risers that match my blue container then the grey ones that I currently have. The situation is easily fixed. I have spoken to my friend and next time we are both at the DZ we well get them swapped.

It's everybody's fault. Me for not being there or dealing with the rigger directly. My friends for not ask/checking and being clear about what was done and the rigger for not double checking why the things were being swapped and and what parts should go where.

[billvon 2,426]

> It is common to remove a canopy from risers when you sell it.

Again, at least around here it's not. That's not good or bad - just something to keep in mind when you're telling a rigger what you want him to do. It's like giving a rigger a packed rig for a reserve repack, then being annoyed when he doesn't inspect the main. Some riggers may indeed do that, and you could argue that riggers are responsible for returning a rig in a safe condition to jump - but since that's not common, you generally have to specify that you want them to do that.

[pchapman 262]

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> It is common to remove a canopy from risers when you sell it.

Again, at least around here it's not. That's not good or bad - just something to keep in mind

... And going the other way, a couple times I've even seen used canopies arrive with the slinks removed. Cheap people. Now that becomes a bit of a rigging job to hook back up.

[popsjumper 2]

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When did the canopy companies start providing risers with canopy purchases? Must be news to me.

I think when Moses jumped Mt Sinai....ask 'Twardo.
Besides, you only have 1100 jumps what do you know.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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There's no argument that risers are part of a complete container system, and that you should receive appropriate risers when you buy any container, new or used.

Which is what the thread is about - keeping the risers with the rig. How some people got off on rentals, demos, borrowing, etc, after the clarification on the permanent change is what caused the thread drift.

But, the drift did raise some good things for the unaware.
Changing canopies should only be done for yourself if you know what you are doing. As mentioned by others, if you don't know how, a rigger is the best source of learning.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

>The rigger should have taken the canopy off the risers when he switched the main.

That's the issue. That's no problem for a rigger to do - but you have to be clear that you want that done, because it's not a common thing to do.

I take exception to this. NOT a common thing to do?
You've GOT to be kidding. I'm inclined to believe AndyMan's post. I am hoping that riggers would keep the risers in place (on the rig) as a standard practice. All the riggers I know and worked with or observed have done so.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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... And going the other way, a couple times I've even seen used canopies arrive with the slinks removed. Cheap people. Now that becomes a bit of a rigging job to hook back up.

You would be amazed at the condition of some of the slinks that come in with canopies.
Meh, maybe not.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ChrisClark 0]

The risers are part of the harness and container system and should stay with it. What if the manufacturer releases a safety bulletin regarding the risers they have made (ie Rigging Innovations and the 3 ring locking loop) and these risers have been put on another container, they become harder to trace. There was a fatality in Australia a few years ago where one of the major factors was that the risers were not designed for the container system involved and didn't release. A main and reserve entanglement followed, shortly by death. Possibly because someone was too lazy or just plain ignorant.

[DBCOOPER 1]

So when its time to R&R the risers where does the traceability come from? Even if you get them from the mfg there is no way to trace/identify them...


EDIT TO ADD
There is no way someone with 31 jumps should attempt changing risers with slinks or even links for that matter, without rigger supervision.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[sundevil777 94]

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So when its time to R&R the risers where does the traceability come from? Even if you get them from the mfg there is no way to trace/identify them...

True traceability isn't there, but at least if the risers stay with a rig, then you know what mfg supplied them - more likely that an owner can be informed of a possible problem.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[popsjumper 2]

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...EDIT TO ADD
There is no way someone with 31 jumps should attempt changing risers with slinks or even links for that matter, without rigger supervision.

I'll state the obvious...Depends on their training and knowledge, not just jump numbers. IMO, by 31 jumps one SHOULD already have the training and knowledge.
Sadly, we all know that that's not the usual case though.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Harmless 0]

I bought my gear on my 10th jump, changed to a different canopy around that 30 jump time...

My rigger handed me the rig that my next canopy was coming off of and said "Place weight on the risers and change one set of lines at a time." I have a feeling that he was watching me from a distance though...

ETA: Unfortunately I've also run across plenty of licensed jumpers that don't even know how to build a closing loop

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[PhreeZone 15]

Someone walks up to me and just tells me to swap the canopies in a rig? I'm just chopping it at the 3 rings, swapping and hooking them back up. 5 minutes and its ready to go for free. Someone actually tells me the canopies were sold and need put on the different risers and then hooked up again... I do the entire canopy transfer to a card and to the other risers and both canopies are now on new risers... I might charge them Lunch for the 15-20 minutes of my time if it was in the middle of a day at the DZ and I was missing a jump for it.

You are trying to make the rigger in the wrong and its more of a gray area then that. If they were not told this was a permanent swap nothing at all is out of the ordinary. If they were told it was a sale of canopies then they should have moved the risers, its all about how much info the rigger was given to do the work.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[virgin-burner 1]

yay for riggers passing knowledge at the time!
my rigger "thaught" me how to attach a (canopy) to a new rig, while at the time, it was not permanent!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[popsjumper 2]

My question to you is:
Anyone, knowing that risers go with the rig, who swaps out the risers is OK with that regardless of what was told or not told? What is the problem with doing it the proper way without having to be directed to do so?

Anyone who gave my risers to somebody else on a simple canopy swap out would have just done their LAST work for me. Just that simple.

It's just a matter of Do The Right Thing.

You can agree or disagree...that's fine.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[riggerpaul 1]

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My question to you is:
Anyone, knowing that risers go with the rig, who swaps out the risers is OK with that regardless of what was told or not told? What is the problem with doing it the proper way without having to be directed to do so?

Anyone who gave my risers to somebody else on a simple canopy swap out would have just done their LAST work for me. Just that simple.

It's just a matter of Do The Right Thing.

You can agree or disagree...that's fine.

Does this apply to a temporary transfer?
Or do you mean to refer only to a permanent transfer?