Something's wrong

[Girlfalldown 0]

I've been obsessing over the amount of deaths we've had in the last week. I can't stop reading incidents and wondering how many are out there that we don't know about.

I'm seeing friends hurt from losing friends and I'm wondering if it's been like this the whole time or if this is something new. Has it been this bad before?
I've only been in this sport 2 years 9 months and can't remember ever seeing this many people go in in such a short time period.

I can't stop thinking about it and it's eating at my brain. What is causing this? I just did my first 360 yesterday and it felt really good but now I'm wondering if it really did feel good or if I was just proud of myself. Should I stop this obsession I have with front risers? Am I being stupid here?

I remember when I hated flying my canopy and just wanted to get to the ground safely. Now I just want to get under my canopy so I can play but I bet that's similar to the thinking of all these people that have smacked the ground recently...

I don't really expect an answer or anything I just wanted to know if anyone else is going through this emotional turmoil over why skydiving is so damned important.

Don't get me wrong. It's still all I think about. I'm just wondering what it's all for and doubting myself.

[AggieDave 6]

Deaths happen, I can't do a damned thing about most of them except try to watch out for the folks around me and try to keep my ass from skipping off the ground. So I try to learn from them and move on.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SBS 0]

I'm with you.

What we can't forget is that many of these deaths, while occuring in skydiving, are not the fault of the sport, but the fault of poor decisions at the wrong times. If you want to have fun with your canopy, then by all means, do it. Just do it right...listen to people who know. We are sooo fortunate now to have an infrastructure to help us with these things now. When I started, which wasn't that long ago (6.5 years now), there weren't canopy control classes. They were barely getting started - I learned from trial and many errors, and I am lucky to be alive (ask Tim Mattson about my impact that he saw one time when I had about 160 jumps). That is what is so frustrating and sad about some of these situations, is that these people did not take advantage of the opportunities that were presented to them to progress in a safer manner.

I think about quitting from time to time, but I love it too much. It's not the sport's fault...that's all I can say.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[Girlfalldown 0]

Yes I know that death happens especially in our sport. I'm not trying to say I never realized throwing your body out of an airplane at 14k was so dangerous... It's a given. I guess I just never realized how much I'd care about the people I've met and jumped with. I also never realized it would effect me this way.

Sorry.. just felt like ranting because I'm so unsure of my own path right now.

[AggieDave 6]

I wasn't trying to imply that you were saying the sport isn't dangerous. I'm sorry if you thought that.

I understand what you mean, I've lost a few folks I knew to this sport and a handful that I was actually fairly close to, it sucks, but I guess I'm really callous to death due to other events outside of skydiving in my life, so it doesn't effect me as it would some.

Now if Morgan was killed jumping...I don't know what I would do or how I could handle it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[GravityGirl 0]

Why do you think I'm such a freak? It has been going on all along. Some years are worse than others. Sometimes it hits your innermost circle. Why do you think I act like everyones Mom?

And yes, you need to back the fuck off your front risers. Not all together. You are getting good at flying your canopy. But you have no business doing 360s right now. Consistancy breeds excellence. Show me 500 consistant high speed approaches with no whale watching and no stabbing. Accuracy through the gates. Accuracy on landing. Predictability in the pattern. Good judgement. Then start looking for the hoggin' the landing area, factor in the pattern, pulling grass outta your teeth 360.

Geez Shannon. You really need a spanking.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I briefly talked to someone at work this morning about the girl in South African who had a double mal and survived and this guy was the one who some how found out about this incident and approached me concerning it (god forbid that I was going to tell him about the guy in Lodi, the girl in Perris Valley or the BASE jumper in Switzerland). Anyway, the dude was flabergasted when this girl in South Africa said that she would jump again. I guess he figured that one brush with death would be enough to send us all to the golf course or bowling alleys. But my reaction to him was that hell ya, get back on the horse. You see we've been there and experienced the joys of being in the skies. Well I can't talk for anyone but myself, but I know why I jump from airplanes and why I jump from fixed objects. Are there dangers involved? Hell ya. Can myself or my friends get seriously hurt or killed? Yup, been there done that. So why do we do it? Once again I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I do it because I just like being up there in the skies. The rewards outweigh the risks. But I have noticed that these incidents do go in spurts. This was a bad weekend. But not all weekends are bad and let's also not forget that this year was the first time during the WFFC that nobody died. It all averages out at the end of the year. It just really sucks when it happens to someone we like and worse someone we care about.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Girlfalldown 0]

Quote

this year was the first time during the WFFC that nobody died.

Not to discount the rest of what you said but are you sure about this?

--------------

(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Geez Shannon. You really need a spanking.

That better be videoed and posted!!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[SBS 0]

Might want to go back in the archives to 2000. Not sure, but I don't think anyone died that year. I'm pretty sure this year isn't the first, though.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Not to discount the rest of what you said but are you sure about this?

Unless I missed something. This was the first year where during the convention, nobody died.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CornishChris 5]

Quote

Unless I missed something. This was the first year where during the convention, nobody died.

Hell, I find that almost scarier than the recent mass of incidents. I have not been to a WFFC, (Live in Australia), but I find it hard to imagine going off to one knowing that every year to date (with the exception of this one) someone has died. Does that scare anyone else or is it just me?

On the incidents side, it is scary. What we do is scary and sometimes I think we forget this and can take it for granted that we will be OK. The 'it won't happen to me' clause. I don't want to see friends die and I sure as hell don't want to die myself (hell, my wife would be pissed!) but yet I risk myself every weekend. For me it is almost as if I try not to think about it too much in case I come up with a reason to stop, because of what I am risking. When we have a spate of incidents and fatalities, as we have had recently, it kind of forces you to think about it which is what you don't want to have to do.

No solution, just opinion and comment.

Blue skies to those who we have lost and bluer skies to those who are still around.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[billvon 2,400]

>This was the first year where during the convention, nobody died.

There were no fatalities during the 2000 convention if memory serves.

[billvon 2,400]

>I'm seeing friends hurt from losing friends and I'm wondering if it's
> been like this the whole time or if this is something new. Has it
> been this bad before?

Yes. You're going through a progression that a lot of jumpers go through. A year after I started skydiving, 16 people were killed in the Perris otter crash. It didn't affect me much; I didn't know too many people, and it was a sad news story, nothing more. Then Harry died while he was trying to land a plane dead-stick on our runway. Then John O'Hara died filming one of our really bad 15-ways, and Diego died when someone packed him a total. Jan Davis died (both of them!) and one of them was a really close friend of mine I had never met in person.

Suddenly I couldn't seem to escape it - my friends, people I knew, people I had talked to, seemed to be dying in much larger numbers. What was happening? Was it that the fatality rate had gone way up, or was I hanging out with the dangerous people? After a while I came to realize that wasn't that skydiving or my friends that had changed. I had changed. I knew more people, and the more skydivers you know, the odds that you're going to know someone who died is going to go up accordingly.

There's never any rhyme or reason to who dies. I know a lot of hook turning buffoons who never seem to learn; they bounce off the ground as if they were made of rubber with broken arms and legs, and are back hooking in a year. Then someone like Adria makes a mistake and dies. Sometimes people die for almost no reason whatsoever, like Shannon. And sometimes they should have died, but it just wasn't their time and somehow they survive (like Molly.)

>Should I stop this obsession I have with front risers? Am I being stupid here?

You're risking your life a lot more than you need to, but that's up to you. I have 4000+ jumps and I'm not going to do more than a 180 front riser hook until I get more training and experience, but that's my own level of acceptable risk. I know I'd be sad if I saw your name in the title of an incidents thread, so be careful, and decide what's important to you.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I'm not dull, but I'm also not the sharpest crayon in the box. So maybe my info on the history of deaths at the WFFC is wrong. It was still a pleasant sight to see nobody bounce at this year's convention. But this weekend was not a good weekend for the guy in Lodi, the girl in Perris Valley and the BASE jumper in Switzerland.

Question: Has Adria passed on? This hasn't been all that clear in the incidents reports. I didn't know her, but from the pictures I've seen we've lost and angel to the heavens.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[heltzer 0]

God love ya, Bonnie!

As for me, I'm not allowed to hook it in. My friends in the sport--not to mention my teammate--have told me that they'd kick the shit out of me if I did. And I can tell you after what I experienced this past weekend at Perris, the pain of broken bones is nothing compared to the heart-wrenching trauma it would inflict on friends and family.

-Lawrence

[hookitt 0]

Whew, how to answer that one.

Every thing is fine and dandy, fun and frolic, then right before my very eyes, the guy I drove to a boogie with, smacks in. Hurt and anguish fills the mind body and soul. The jump we did that very day was coincidently my 500th jump and his best friends 24 hour. Everything... changed.

That was the first one. He was my friend I drove to a boogie with. I had to drive home alone in his truck.

With a short time, several of my friends died and it hardened me for a long time. For a long time I was pretty certain I'd be next. Often I didn't want any more friends because I figured they'd be gone.

Why do you do it? Same reason we all do. There's is mass amounts of joy in grand social activities such as the high adrenaline sport of skydiving. We all have that same set up that craves endangering ourselves.

We're somewhat pack animals in a way, we flock together, and when we lose one, we huddle around and wonder what happened. We grieve together.

After we heal, joy and confidence returns.

--- I wrote the part above a couple hours ago ----

Shannon, I didn't realize the past weekends events iin Lodi, affected you the way it did when you called. I'm sorry I didn't pick up on that. I'll steal a quote from bonnie, Why do you think I'm such a freak? It's the same reason. Death continues to suck, but one can get somewhat used to it.

360's. Shannon, you'll be next. Don't be next, that would suck.

It's late and I must rest.... Stay safe.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Every thing is fine and dandy, fun and frolic, then right before my very eyes, the guy I drove to a boogie with, smacks in. Hurt and anguish fills the mind body and soul. The jump we did that very day was coincidently my 500th jump and his best friends 24 hour. Everything... changed.

That was the first one. He was my friend I drove to a boogie with. I had to drive home alone in his truck.

With a short time, several of my friends died and it hardened me for a long time. For a long time I was pretty certain I'd be next. Often I didn't want any more friends because I figured they'd be gone.

Why do you do it? Same reason we all do. There's is mass amounts of joy in grand social activities such as the high adrenaline sport of skydiving. We all have that same set up that craves endangering ourselves.

We're somewhat pack animals in a way, we flock together, and when we lose one, we huddle around and wonder what happened. We grieve together.

After we heal, joy and confidence returns.

Good stuff, Tim.

The joy and confidence, the fun and frolic have always returned for me, so far anyway. I wonder sometimes if we ever really heal though... it's been over 10 years and thinking about Al and about Kevin still hurt.

Shannon, this is the shitty part of skydiving. What can you do to make it easier?

You can quit jumping. That's the really easy way out - stop taking those risks yourself and stop being friends with people who continue to take those risks.

You can keep jumping but stop letting people in, stop making friends, stop being a part of the community (on the dz, online, etc).

Or you can know that times like this are going to happen. It's going to suck to be a part of the "pack" at times. The longer you are in the sport, the bigger your pool of potential lost friends becomes and the longer your list of people you used to know will be. You can make a choice that says that's okay; that the time, jumps, joy and love you shared with them was and is worth the pain and grief you feel when you lost/lose them.

That's why, like Bonnie and Tim, I'm such a freak. That's why I'm a canopy nazi. And that's why time spent with my friends is so important to me.

Quote

360's. Shannon, you'll be next. Don't be next, that would suck.

What he said.

[LuvToFly 0]

Shannon -

Don't lose touch...

Don't lose touch with the beauty and awe of the experience and of the sport.

It's not necessay to hook at all to experience the very best part of all of this. And getting back to that, back to gorgeous views, the air rushing past, the quiet peacefulness of a fully opened non-diving canopy - this is what pulled many into the sport.

Somewhere along the way, this whole amazing package of privilege becomes - not enough. Your basic freefall, canopy ride, and straight in landing become rote, even boring. You must have more - it must be spiced up - the edge must be pushed harder and harder. And you go from 90's, to 180's, to 360's..

Stop..

... and ask yourself a simple question. Why?

As a hangglider, airplane and heli pilot, I love to be in the air. It's in your blood. But the general aviation mantra is one of safely enjoying the sport.

Your concerns are very real, and very heartfelt. So are the other folks on here that don't want anything to happen to you.

Get back to the original love - jump solo and do slow 360's during freefall. Just LOOK at the skyline. Look at the mountains creasing the landscape below. There are no points to turn, just pure beauty.

Glide quietly under canopy, and just look around. Not at lining up a landing spot, but at all of creation.

When all of this no longer has the original appeal, awe and sense of wonder.. then "more" becomes necessary. And in that quest for more and more, some decide to live just on that edge between skill and chance. Don't be one of them.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

If you have to ask about the 360s - then maybe hold off for a while...they are not needed and you could land a lot more conservative until you really know what you are doing. However, no one here can tell you what to do since you are the only one that gets to make that choice sitting under your canopy. You are a great woman and I would hate to hear that something happened to you There is no reason to rush into any area of this sport - if you stay healthy you can be around long enough to enjoy all aspects....and be both safe and good at what you do.

Tim - I have to disagree - you never get used to the deaths, you just find a different way to deal with it. But each one hurts just as much as the first one....I've found the pain never lessens.

What Bill, Bonnie, Tim and everyone else has said is all right on....and this is why we all try in our own ways to help make people safer. Look at the fatality database and you will see there is no real pattern to when the deaths happen. You will have long dry spells and then weekends like this, and then you will have weeks that get even worse (ie plane crash).

You are at a stage that all of us go through, and it won't be the last time either. The idea of quitting the sport and wondering why we do this after someone close to us dies is something most jumpers I know have experienced. I'm sure you heard of the "3 year rule" that most jumpers will leave the sport within three years - the major reasons they quit are death, money, politics or they just burn out. I've come close to quitting a few times, and even took some extra time away from the DZ one year just to reset and to see if I wanted to go back.

I have a couple friends that left the sport after we lost our friends, and some of them won't even talk to us anymore - they broke off the friendships because they couldn't handle going thru that pain again. I miss their friendship, but they had to do what was right for them.

How do you deal with it? I have no real idea, just take things day by day. One thing that helped me - think about this - If you went in, would you want to be the reason someone quit the sport, or would you want someone to learn from your mistake and continue on with their passion? The best way to honor the dead is by learning from their mistakes.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[cocheese 0]

I questioned the sport in the begginng a few times. All the way up to about jump 300.
When i did, i would go for a jump. The questioning is over. I've jumped 10 mins after seeing a dead guy on the runway. The plane was going up !
When in doubt, get out. Be it a plane or the whole sport in general. And if you find a better bang for the buck, let us know.
I hear a voice from a friend who died in the sport ..." Do ya think i would quit jumpin just because YOU went in
? (Expletives omitted)

[happythoughts 0]

It seems like a lot of people because we know everybody. If someone gets hurt, everyone knows about it 5 days later. With time in sport, you get to know a lot of people.

People get broken parts in the 50-150 jump range because their landings suck or the wind gets them.

People get hurt worse in the 300-500 jump range because they lose respect for the sport. They get cocky and complacent about the danger. The attitude is "I feel like I can probably do this. I'll try it." If "maybe" doesn't work out, it is pretty punishing.

At WFFC, the death/injury numbers have gone down because of changes in the landing rules.

[avgjoe 0]

This sport gets real tough when you can start to put faces with the incident reports and you can remember good times with those people. Also think about how social this sport is and how many people you meet. You can almost go to any big dropzone that you haven't been to and know someone. It is a good thing but with the ever expanding circle of freinds and aquaintances the likelyhood of knowing the victim is much greater. How does one work through this like others have said you either stop or develop a greater respect for the risks we take. Also you question the risks other take enough so the know you care but don't sound like you are holding them back.

Avgjoe
hook it for safety

[Snowwhite 0]

Quote

Might want to go back in the archives to 2000. Not sure, but I don't think anyone died that year. I'm pretty sure this year isn't the first, though.

-S

Seems that 2000 was the year that Dale Earnhardt died in Nascar....no one died at the WFFC....
ding, ding ding,.,, YOU WIN THE PRIZE!

skydiveTaylorville.org
[email protected]

[SBS 0]

YAY!!! WOOHOO!!!



-S

PS - So wadda I get?

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...