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GreenLight

Reserve Repack Question

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What is considered dangerous in your opinion... Im going to have another rigger look at it but just thought I would see if there was any tolerance at all in this...
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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>What is considered dangerous in your opinion...

An entire yarn worn through is one criteria. Many closing loops are a bit fuzzy if you look at them closely enough due to the force required to close some reserve containers.



OK That's what I was looking for... I can take a photo though... Let me see how good of a photo I can take.
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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I believe that if it is a cypres loop it needs to be changed after 2 pack jobs, but I could be wrong...



I thought it was every packjob. Whether it needs it or not, my customers get a new loop every time, no questions. Unless it's a quickloop, then it's like every other.
=========Shaun ==========


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looking at those pix, i would say replace the loop. but, i am curious, you said it is a fresh repack,yet that seal looks kinda old and oxidized.



Just had it done last week. Got it back Friday and jumped it Saturday. Today is Wednesday so it's not even a week old yet. I popped it to check out the travel on the pilot chute. It came out straight and landed about 8 feet behind me.

The flash may be distorting the look of the lead.
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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A fresh packed reserve could have a slightly frayed closing loop even with a new loop installed if the rigger is not careful enough. That could come from a too short loop leading to too much tension, or from the temporary pin piercing thru the loop by mistake. This is why I use now two pull up cords of Cypres or Dyneema (Vigil) braid. Using 2 pull cords for reserve make the contact surface with the closing loop twice bigger then reducing the pressure and the possible closing loop damage by the same amount. If you twist and wet the 2 pull cords 4 braids it's relatively easy to thread them thru the AAD cutter hole.
Now about your loop, it looks new on the pictures because it's very white but quite frayed. Since it's a reserve I think you took a good decision to have it replaced.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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That loop would never leave my hands. If a rigger let that loop go as good enough I'd find another rigger. And I'm not kidding.

I HAVE had loops look that bad and had to redo the rig. Sometimes a grommet has an edge that can chew a loop. Sometime it hits my closing plate. One time I went through 4 loops before I finally found the burr on a gromment.

Hopefully your rigger fixed this for nothing. They should have.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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"Hopefully your rigger fixed this for nothing. They should have."

With mechanics and riggers I have the same policy. They only get one chance. I will have it repacked, inspected and a new loop put in by a different rigger. My rigger just moved out of state and this is the second rigger since he left that I have tried out. Both have left me feeling unsafe in the air. I can not tolerate this sort of thing and feel comfortable.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm back on the search for a new rigger.
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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What we teach for the pre-jump inspection is that 90% of the individual little fibers that make up the loop should be good, namely no more than 10% wear. Any more than that and the loop should be replaced before the next jump. A tiny amount of wear is hard to avoid, but it shouldn't leave the rigger with anywhere near 10% wear, especially with the longer repack cycle now.

I've slowly cut through loops (at repack time) to see how far you can go before the pack tension snaps the rest of the loop, and they seem to let go when 60% to 80% of the fibers are cut. So yeah, 10% wear is the most I'd want to see.

Pretty good rule for main closing loops, also.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

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That rig would have never left my shop with a loop in that condition. Unfortunately, I see loops like this too often. A thorough inspection of grommets and using correct rigging techniques prevents this. I just replaced the loop on the last rig I packed because it looked similar to that. The loop in that condition is completely unacceptable and should be replaced by the rigger who packed it free of charge.
Greg Bailey D-19203
S/L I/E, IAD I/E, AFF I/E, TDM I/E, Coach E
Master Rigger
S&TA Skydive Warren County

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Thanks but the idea is not mine. I got the trick from UPT VECTOR main and reserve packing video which I recommand greatly.
When you come to thread the 4 braids into the AAD hole, don't be discouraged too easily.
1) first have the 4 braids endings normally cut (no hot knife in order to avoid a hard spot at the end)
2) wet with saliva and twist the 4 braids together (they have absolutely to be equal or no braid too short or too long with respect to the others).
3) put the twisted assembly into the AAD hole, apply some pressure and twist the assembly the reverse way it has been twisted first and that way the friction with the inside of the hole will make the assembly tighter then smaller in diameter. This is the difficult part at the beginning. The rest is the same than using one pull cord.
Note: You will appreciate that method when seeing less damage on the loop due to the contact and very high pressure with the pull cord an you will find out that it is almost easier to remove them (separately) at the end of the packing. Caution, remove one first then the second one. Goog luck and tell me if it works for you.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Just had it done last week. Got it back Friday and jumped it Saturday. Today is Wednesday so it's not even a week old yet. I popped it to check out the travel on the pilot chute. It came out straight and landed about 8 feet behind me.



Well - popping the reserve without the rigger present changed the job from a "replace the loop" to "inspect and repack"... Granted, you said you were gonna change riggers anyway, so it might be irrelavent as most riggers won't reseal another riggers work without a full inspection, however....

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No I popped the reserve for the rigger who packed it with this loop. That was to see how it came out after the last rigger packed it. It was very uneven so I wondered how it would work I did it in the riggers house in front of the rigger.

He says he put a new loop in it and that something must have happened to it afterwards.

Now the NEW rigger took it as is with the frayed loop and I didn't pop it. She has it and will do a complete inspect and repack.

???
Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

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That loop would never leave my hands. If a rigger let that loop go as good enough I'd find another rigger. And I'm not kidding.

I HAVE had loops look that bad and had to redo the rig. Sometimes a grommet has an edge that can chew a loop. Sometime it hits my closing plate. One time I went through 4 loops before I finally found the burr on a gromment.

Hopefully your rigger fixed this for nothing. They should have.



I've also had issues with this, though never let something near that bad go out... (a few fibers, but no full strands... drives me nuts)


Two additional things can cause it:
using the closing loop/pullup cord to align the flap grommets (makes the rough grommet edge problem worse),
burrs on the temp pin.

Another suggestion I was given a while back for the pullup cords was to finger trap a length of spectra into the spectra pullup cord (entirely embedded). This doubles the diameter of the pullup cord and makes it easier to insert the pin. I asked SSK about it as they are VERY specific in the Airtek manual concerning what material to use for pull-up cords, and was told that this doubling should be fine.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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