stiletto or sabre2

[sparkie 0]

I'm downsizing from a sabre2 150. I'm getting into swooping and want to go to a katana 135 after 150-200 jumps more.

Is a stiletto a waste of time or could i use it to get used to the more elliptical canopies. (i know it has a short recovery so i dont want to use it to learn swooping)

My other option would be to go to a sabre2 135 (wl around 1,55 btw)

hmm what to do ;P choices choices

[halorob 0]

Whats wrong with learning to swoop on the canopy you have now?

[sparkie 0]

nothing, but the 150 wont fit in my new rig ;P (it was too good a deal to pass up hehehe)

There wasnt a sabre2 135 for grabs so the stiletto came up. Going to a katana 135 now seems a bit steep so i'd rather play a round a bit more. I found a 2nd hand sabre 2 135 that i could buy, but im wondering if the stiletto experience would be good or bad on my way to the katana.

[matt3sa 0]

I would definately make some jumps on an eliptical before you go to a katana. Don't know if you've ever flown a stiletto, but there is an extreme difference in input sensitivity in comparison to your sabre. Most notably on turn rate and oversteer. It's nothing too crazy, but combining the dive rate of a katana with the eliptical characteristics could be dangerous if you aren't careful. Stilettos are fun. You'll probably like a stiletto. Short recovery arc, but based on your wing load you can get a nice swoop out of it.

[AggieDave 6]

Going to the Stiletto will give you some "butt time" with an elliptical openings; however, in terms of swooping you will be moving backwards if you want to go to the Katana. The Sabre2 is a very nice stepping stone to a Katana. The recovery arc on a Sabre2 is a bit longer then the same Stiletto. To top that off, how the canopy dives will set you up to learn the Katana's aggressive trim and dive.

The Stiletto is a great canopy and I put a decent number of jumps on some a few years ago. I found that the experienced I gained from jumping that canopy did not serve me well for going to a modern design swooping canopy. The modern designs have much longer recovery arcs and will be a world of difference from the Stiletto.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[erdnarob 1]

Go on Performance Designs site and read the quite complete and interesting article about the Katana. I had the same hesitation than you about that canopy but after I have demoed it at Skydive Chicago Summerfest I knew it will be my next canopy. I have now almost 100 jumps on it and love it. Keep in mind that when flying a square canopy especially an elliptical one like the Katana, you are like a pilot and when you are on short final you fly it straight like an airplane in order to get a good landing. BTW before my Katana I had a Sabre 2 for about 400 jumps.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[halorob 0]

Heh, I know what you mean I am about to downsize myself. My canopy fits but it isn't as easy to fit in the D bag as I'd like. My 170 seems too tame for my liking now.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I'm downsizing from a sabre2 150. I'm getting into swooping and want to go to a katana 135 after 150-200 jumps more.

Is a stiletto a waste of time or could i use it to get used to the more elliptical canopies. (i know it has a short recovery so i dont want to use it to learn swooping)

My other option would be to go to a sabre2 135 (wl around 1,55 btw)

Don't change planforms and wingloading at the same time. Either go to a sabre2 (or pilot, or safire, or lotus, etc) 135 or stick with a 150 and change the shape.

Other canopies aren't as twitchy as the Stiletto (John Leblanc intentionally made subsequent designs less responsive because he observed problems with jumpers keeping their Stilettos stable about the roll axis on landing), but it's still prudent to not do more than one thing to add responsiveness at once.

Changing from my Batwing 134 to a Stiletto 120 I had problems keeping the things going in the straight line on landing. It would have been worse coming from a 135 square.

Putting a hundred or two jumps on a Sabre 2 135, and then moving on to a Katana 135 would be the smart choice.

[sparkie 0]

thanks for the input.

I think i'll put the smaller sabre2 in and jump that this season and then move on to the katana.

[jumpwally 0]

Go with a STORM..........

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[JohanW 0]

You are from Teuge, I should know who you are but I can't get a face with the name .. look me up some time. (If you can't get a face with the name either, look for the black wingsuit.
Under Dutch rules, you can't jump a Katana until 700 jumps anyway, so you have time to get there. You're already bending the wingload rules BTW. Those were written in blood ..

In the meantime, making some jumps on a Stiletto is never wasted in my opinion, even if it's not a good canopy to learn to swoop on (you got that right); it is however an excellent pilot's canopy, responsive like no other.

Eventually, yes, going from a Sabre 2 to a Katana makes the most sense. But there is more to canopy flight than just swooping, and that's where the jumps on a Stiletto might come in. If a Stiletto 150 won't fit your new rig, do you still have the old one? I have a spare 150 you could borrow any time, already on risers. If you already got rid of the old rig, my spare Stiletto 135 would fit your new rig. Maybe between the Sabre 2 135 and a future Katana? (No, not looking to sell either, I wanna keep them.
If you ever want critique, or want to do some recreational high performance no contact CReW, look me up.

Oh, and, this is the Profile Police , your profile lists a Sabre 2 135 already? Is de wens de vader van de gedachte hier, of ben je al overgestapt?

Johan.
I am. I think.

[sparkie 0]

i bought a s2 135 yesterday ;)

Oh, and if i go to the toilet first or stop drinking jaegermeister my wl is 1,5 instead of 1,55

I feel much better now ive dicided to go with my 1st hunch and get a sabre2 135, the replies were very helpful. (That and the jeepdiver / stiletto / ouchie thread)

If I were to try a stiletto I'd probably feel better under a 150 atm. Could also be that I'm overly worried, but I dont really feel the need to test that ;P

I'm really starting to like the canopy flight and was planning on getting some coaching to perfect landings and improving allround skills under canopy so i might take you up on the offer.... when the temps outside are no longer -10 deg celsius brrrr

[dragon2 0]

Luckily, current temps @ Teuge aren't a problem for everyone

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[sparkie 0]

yeah i know, i was there ;P but low hop n pops because..brrrr! hehehe

http://www.paracentrumteuge.nl/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,489/page,view/catid,61/PageNo,1/key,14/hit,1/

[taylor.freefall 0]

If a stiletto isn't a good choice for swooping then what is it for then? Just zippy piloting?

Disclaimer - not that I have any intention of swooping or stilettoing - just curious.

[gearless_chris 1]

If you like spiraling down to get on the next load, or being able to turn by just thinking about it, the Stiletto is for you.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[keithbar 1]

they don't call them spineiletto's for nuttin

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[Guinness_fr 0]

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If a stiletto isn't a good choice for swooping then what is it for then? Just zippy piloting?

Exactly: Just zippy piloting

I don't mind Stilettos but in order to learn swooping my first choice would be Sabre2 and a shitload of jumps on a given size. You'd be amazed what can be done with this canopy when properly handled.

[rehmwa 2]

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If a stiletto isn't a good choice for swooping then what is it for then? Just zippy piloting?

Exactly: Just zippy piloting

And it's a super fun canopy for that. If you swoop/surf it, learn it slowly as it's not really optimal for that.....though you can do pretty well at it if it's not your primary reason for one (much like a 5.0 Mustang is great to drive, though a track vehicle might be better to race in cirlcles.....) I love flying my Stiletto.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[hookitt 0]

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they don't call them spineiletto's for nuttin

If you must bastardize the name, it's Spinetto. If the canopy was called the, SwissArmy, it would not have such a cool nickname so if you're one to believe it is the only one that can get out of hand in line twists, it's Spinetto. Spinnetto is an accepted spelling as well.

They open just fine.

As for swooping, they're not particularily ideal but most people don't come close to flying their canopy as it could be. A person learns under what they're flying. I learned to swoop quite well on a Stiletto and so did other pilots.

The only issue is the shorter recovery arc. You must dive it longer or turn lower. That has 2 problems associated with it.
1: Scares the hell out of people watcthing if they're unfamiliar with how they fly. (not really a problem, I found it entertaining recently)

2: Less margin for recovery.

To those who try to progress to quickly, number 2 is the one that hurts or kills you.

Sparkie, with that said, I'd suggest not getting the Stiletto. It flys better and is more fun than most canopies but the swoop characteristics are very different than anything else you'll fly as you progress.

Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[billvon 2,400]

>If a stiletto isn't a good choice for swooping then what is it for then?
>Just zippy piloting?

It opens nice if you stay on top of it, it has a pretty flat glide (i.e. can cover lots o distance with the right wind conditions) and it lands well. For a lot of people that's just fine. Modern canopies can do those things as well, but often very good deals can be had on Stilettos.