Change in WFFC policy for jumpers with under 50 freefalls

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Also posted to "Event & Places to Skydive" forum, (because that's the best place to post it, but so many of you frequent this forum posting stuff that has nothing to do with skydiving, I thought it might have a better audience here!)


There has been a change to the WFFC policy for jumpers with under 50 freefalls. If you are a licensed skydiver but with fewer than 50 freefalls you may jump at the Convention this year under certain conditions.

Please see the Convention FAQ at the World Freefall Convention web site: http://www.freefall.com.

[SkiD_PL8 0]

So does the "coach" have to be rated as an instructor or just a coach?

Greenie in training.

[larsrulz 0]

For example, a USPA coach is an instructional rating holder, so I would assume the later.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[happythoughts 0]

"...and right over here, we have a 'special' novice landing area has been prepared with a soft cushion of soybeans."

To no one in particular, "Always remember, it's better to walk a long way than to be carried a short way."

50 jumps is 50 landings. If you have less than 50 jumps, 30 people around you in a tight area can be hairy. It's not what you see, it's what you don't see.

[billvon 2,470]

Yikes. A coach can keep em safe in the plane, and can help keep them safe in freefall, but there's no way a coach is going to be able to avoid collisions for them under canopy. I can picture someone with 25 jumps from a one-cessna DZ looking up on final and seeing two people coming straight at him.

I hope we don't see very low time accidents at this WFFC - hopefully the coach thing will work.

[Peej 0]

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Yikes. A coach can keep em safe in the plane, and can help keep them safe in freefall, but there's no way a coach is going to be able to avoid collisions for them under canopy. I can picture someone with 25 jumps from a one-cessna DZ looking up on final and seeing two people coming straight at him.

I agree, i had around 240 jumps when i was out there, 140 of which had been in the four weeks leading up to the convention and there were times when that landing area scared the hell outta me!

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[flyangel2 2]

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hopefully the coach thing will work.

And hopefully the jumpers won't cheat and jump with just anyone. I hope they use the coaches or get advise and jump with the LOs.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[peek 20]

Yes, this is going to be serious work for the person acting as "Coach". It implies arranging with the supervised "Novice" jumper a specified landing area and perhaps a limited number of loads (first few of the day for low number of jumpers in the air.)

This policy has been changed because the WFFC staff realizes a number of licensed but low jump number skydivers that have trained at a large drop zone have been trained to deal with these conditions, so why prohibit them.

The student training vendor also trains AFF students at the WFFC starting with their first jump. It requires close supervision but can be done safely.

And last but not least, we have found that a number of low jump number jumpers have cheated in past years by padding their logbooks. (Personally I would rather be in the air with a closly supervised "Novice" that a cheater with a "Skydiver" wristband.)

[bbarnhouse 0]

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And hopefully the jumpers won't cheat and jump with just anyone. I hope they use the coaches or get advise and jump with the LOs.

I hope too that manifestors aren't expected to police this. They have enough to do already.
Will there be someone at the loading areas keeping an eye on the wrist bands?
Additionally how is it going to effect the LOs since the jumper mostly likely won't be able to do 4-ways.
Are the LOs expected to do one on ones?

[bmcd308 0]

>>I hope we don't see very low time accidents at this WFFC <<

I agree with your post, and I will add that I think this is a bad idea. I do not think that very low time jumpers should be in the air at the WFFC. There is just too much going on.


EDITED TO ADD: Having read Peek's post, I guess I understand, but it drives me nuts to think that people with less than 50 jumps are bluffing their way into the convention.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[Remster 24]

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This policy has been changed because the WFFC staff realizes a number of licensed but low jump number skydivers that have trained at a large drop zone have been trained to deal with these conditions, so why prohibit them.

I dunno... if you really want to participate on the jumping side of the convention, and have beteen 25 (about) and 50 jumps, surely, you can do those missing 25 jumps in the summer prior to the boogie?

Remster

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BB: Will there be someone at the loading areas keeping an eye on the wrist bands?
GP: The same people who have (or who have not) done this in the past.

BB: Additionally how is it going to effect the LOs .... Are the LOs expected to do one on ones?
GP: This changes nothing about load organizers when acting as "load organizers".

If a "load organizer" decides to act as a "Coach" for a Novice" skydiver they will no longer be acting as a "load organizer", but will be doing much more.

This is similar to when I have been wristbanded as an "Instructor" upon approval of the Student Training Vendor and done an AFF jump with one of their students. For that jump I was an AFF instructor, not a load organzer.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Is this just a way to get the numbers up at the WFFC? They have been sagging quite a bit the past few years and I'm sure by allowing people who just got into the sport to come and jump would increase participation. I'm going to have to re-think whether I will attend this year in light of the number of inexperienced canopy pilots this could generate. Lost Prarie is looking better and better.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I think that's wonderful news! I've jumped at the convention... if you setup right.. it's no different than any other busy DZ.. student jumpers are last off the plane.. and land out past the swoop pond.. I mean.. if you can't land in that area then you don't belong flying a canopy anyway even as a 1st timer.. that LZ is HUGE over there (at least a couple of football fields worth). I've landed little grass strips next to the runway not even big enough for my canopy, so that humongo lz was a breeze!!!

Anyway... I wouldn't have gone without an experienced WFFC jumper & coach (and I didn't) but still.. I think it's great they are opening it up for lower jump numbers.

Jeez too.. the last couple of years, there's hardly been too much jumping or activity.. it's been pretty slow. Besides.. Skydive Chicago does AFF there, so there already are inexperienced jumpers in the air all the time.. this just means more people will use the big LZ where the spectators can get more excited.. seems no experienced jumpers like the long walk back.. but I'm more than happy to take it myself.. better safe than sorry!!!!!

Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air,
Dawn Suiter PMTS #3

[jlmiracle 7]

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I'm going to have to re-think whether I will attend this year in light of the number of inexperienced canopy pilots this could generate.

I don't think there will be that many jumping because most are still renting gear, unless all the manufacturers are going to let the unlicensed jumpers demo their gear.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[AndyMan 7]

This is great news. I never understood why someone can go through an entire AFF progression at the convention but couldn't walk in through registration with 35 jumps and find some way to make it work.

Am I correct in assuming the coaches are operating through the AFF concession?

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AndyMan 7]

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Skydive Chicago does AFF there

Chicagoland Skydiving Center, not Skydive Chicago has historically had the AFF concession.

It's easy to be confused, but it's kinda like confusing Perris and Elsinore.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

OH GOD... NIKO IS GONNA KILL ME!!!

SHHHH... no one else has to know!!


Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air,
Dawn Suiter PMTS #3

[peek 20]

"...get the numbers up..." sounds a bit, well.....

The WFFC has always been about getting jumpers to attend who have never been to one. Always.

What prompted the WFFC staff to revisit the policy was a licensed jumper asking why they should be excluded when they learned to skydive at a large drop zone with as much activity as the WFFC at times.

Good question. Staff then began to think of ways that having Novice skydivers attend could be made reasonably safe.

And after hearing about those people padding logbooks to attend, it was realized that it might be better to allow inexperienced but honest people jump under controlled conditions. Perhaps some of the people thinking about cheating could instead be honest (and safer) Novices.

By the way, at this point I don't think anyone has any idea how many "licensed but not yet with 500 freefalls" jumpers might attend because of this change. It might actually be very few.

I think "fear of Novices in the air" would be a bit premature....

[billvon 2,470]

>I hope they use the coaches or get advise and jump with the LOs.

We had our hands full dealing with people with 60-100 jumps who wanted to do 4-ways. (And we couldn't generally go smaller; plane owners would object.) I can't imagine trying to do that with people with 25 jumps. I think you'd have to do a 1-on-1 and have the jumper pay your slot, at least - at least that way you can control what happens in freefall.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Lowering the jump number is a bad idea.

Gary's argument about people padding their log books so they can jump there. Well, I say that now they will pad the log book even more in order to attend.

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They do AFF there.

True, but the student is under direct supervision of a JM and watched very close. With low number jumpers, they can't all be watched.

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The low number jumper will have to cover the slot of the coach.

Point in case they are already spending enough money just to get into the convention, plus what is going to be the cost of the skydives?

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The same people that were watching wrist bands will watch again.

I didn't realize there was someone watching wrist bands in the past. The only exception has been wing suits and at the beer garden.

[AndyMan 7]

People with less than 50 jumps have always been able to get in, it just required the breaking of rules. Now at least they can do it under supervision.

I remember a few years ago even well known DZ.com'ers with fewer than 50 jumps showed up, got a visitor wrist band, tucked it under their jumpsuit and jumped the entire convention. I've also seen people show up at registration, get sent to the AFF tent where they quickly disapeared, only to be seen a few hours later jumping with their friends.

I'm glad that now there's a way for these people to jump under supervision without breaking the rules.

Now those same people will hopefully jump under the direct supervision of coaches. That's a good thing.

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I didn't relize there was someone watching wrist bands in the past. The only exception has been wing suits and at the beer garden.

I think you're right, nobody ever checks wristbands. This begs the question, what's the point of the wristband at all? I've seen "visitors" and "AFF students" jumping with friends.

I'd much prefer they to be under supervision of a coach. This really doesn't change anything - people at the loading tents have always been the last line of checking wristbands. It's unfortunate that it was of so little priority.

It has always struck me as absurd that somebody with 45 jumps could show up and be turned away or issued a visitors band, while somebody without any jumps at all could do AFF.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Snowwhite 0]

I had a military jumper with 100 jumps but NO freefall experience ask why he couldn't come to the Convention. Now he can...
Thanks for all of the hard work that you have done to make this a safe way for people like him to enjoy the Convention Gary.
As for 3 and 4 ways for low timers. I agree, it's difficult to get them all in, but what better place than the WFFC with all of the experienced people who are willing to share their time and expertise with low timers.
Like the 3 way my husband (on his 21st jump) got to do with the Golden Knight and a friend last year. Yes, he did part of his AFF at the Convention, and is very aware of his surroundings.

skydiveTaylorville.org
[email protected]

[billvon 2,470]

> I had a military jumper with 100 jumps but NO freefall experience ask
>why he couldn't come to the Convention. Now he can...

IIRC, there are no SL loads at the Convention, and the only aircraft you can pull high on are the specialty aircraft like the helicopter, ballons, biplane etc. I hope we do not force less experienced jumpers into aircraft like the helicopter!

[Snowwhite 0]

Bill, this is exactly why I talked to Gary about this policy. Here you have someone with twice as many jumps as we required, but NO ff time.

skydiveTaylorville.org
[email protected]