Nightingale 0 #1 June 7, 2005 This came up in another thread, but it's a separate topic, so I figured I'd start a new thread without the emotional issues of the other. Please don't bring that thread into this one. My own experience was, after I got my A, I got invited on jumps that I shouldn't be on. Someone who just got their A shouldn't be doing 9 ways or more. I think some of it was guys wanting to meet the new girl. However, I was lucky that I had someone with tons of jumps keeping an eye on me with regards to safety. I had someone I could ask about anything I was unsure about, and I can't think of a time where I didn't follow his advice, or that his advice was wrong; it was always very conservative and safety conscious. If it wasn't for that person, I'd probably have made a few jumps that I wasn't ready for, just because I wouldn't have known better. However, I think that person's mentoring wouldn't have happened if I wasn't female. I don't think we'd have taken the time to get to know each other. So, yes, based on my experience, I think sometimes women are treated differently, and sometimes that can be dangerous, and sometimes very helpful. What does everyone else think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #2 June 7, 2005 sheesh, no more gasoline on the fire. pls Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #3 June 7, 2005 Women with far less jumps than I, always seem to be MUCH more welcome to funnel a jump or get taught FF then question my experience for the same opportunities. ...Yet, they still stare at my ASS (PIGS! I tell you)_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #4 June 7, 2005 That's why I said keep the other thread out of this one. I'm looking for an abstract discussion here about what people think is or isn't happening, and why, not stuff about any particular incident. Until I looked at the other thread, I didn't realize that other people might have had a similar experience to mine with regards to getting invited on jumps they weren't ready for, and that was kinda buried under other issues there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #5 June 7, 2005 without even reading your post, just the subject gets a YES reply from me......and we ALL know it's true.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #6 June 7, 2005 Well, personally, I KNOW that I never give the cute chicks any preferential treatment. Ok, maybe just a little. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #7 June 7, 2005 Yes. Your experience was relatively normal. Young female jumpers (especially the attractive ones) routinely get invited on loads that they shouldn't be on. A guy with the same experience and perhaps even better skills is considerably less likely to get invited on those loads. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #8 June 7, 2005 QuoteWhat does everyone else think? "So, yes, based on my experience, I think sometimes women are treated differently, and sometimes that can be dangerous, and sometimes very helpful. Definately sometimes. I've never seen 4 people packing one pilot chute for a guy. I have seen 4 guys packing a girls pilot chute for her though. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,148 #9 June 7, 2005 [pedantic] It's not just the female aspect. Some people are just cool (take it from someone who isn't ), and others like to be around them. They're either incredibly likeable, or whatever. After a few jumps, some people clearly learn quickly -- that means that the sort-of-teachers like to jump with them, because those newbies reaffirm their faith in their teaching and coaching efforts. They are desirable. Yes, girls, particularly if they're of the sweet and good-looking variety, are included. But that works for the first few jumps. You have to have some decent attitude, a reasonably nice personality, and a reasonable advancement of skill level to keep jumping at the "advanced" level. The thing is that early missed steps lead to whole blocks of missed information. If you go back to learn something, it's harder, because you have whole skill sets built around either holes or misinformation. [/pedantic] Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenHall 0 #10 June 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhat does everyone else think? "So, yes, based on my experience, I think sometimes women are treated differently, and sometimes that can be dangerous, and sometimes very helpful. Definately sometimes. I've never seen 4 people packing one pilot chute for a guy. I have seen 4 guys packing a girls pilot chute for her though. Derek Haha if you're talking about what I think you are, we all had a question about an exposed bridle!! I mean, she might have gotten me to pack a few times for her, but she did give me a few bucks later!!! And by the way, she ended up having a really hard pull on that jump (I think grant ended up doing the final PC pack), although she said my packjob opened beautifully. Okay yes of course girls get treated differently than guy jumpers, especially attractive ones. I mean, it only makes sense. This applies to all other areas of life too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #11 June 7, 2005 I think there have been at least two threads like this in the Women's forum. Bottom line, there are different ways of being treated differently, there are different reasons behind it, and as you said, sometimes its good and sometimes it isn't. But don't kid yourself that it only happens to women! The assertion that someone's inital AFF training was substandard because she's "cute" is still insulting at best. I'm sure her instructors really appreciated being trashed like that on the internet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #12 June 7, 2005 There's been at least one serious thread on this in the Women's Only forum. Short answer: yes. The answer I gave to a friend who was stressed about this (she's a good looking woman): your looks might have gotten you some opportunities that others didn't but it was up to you to take those opportunities and make something of them. For the record, she did and is now a damn good jumper. It really doesn't hurt that she's loads of fun to be around too. edit: One thread Another thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #13 June 7, 2005 My answer is absolutely. Quoteyour looks might have gotten you some opportunities that others didn't but it was up to you to take those opportunities and make something of them. Thankfully I learned how to do that. I admit I was invited on MANY skydives because I'm a girl. I was well aware that was happening and used it to my advantage to show them that I actually can fly and actually can do what they do. Boy were they surprised! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #14 June 7, 2005 Well, the question was do MEN and women get treated differently. I'm not saying it only happens to women. It's easy to look at it in the reverse. If some women are getting mentoring or extra training from instructors, some men aren't benefitting from that training, and vice versa. I think that people getting invited on jumps they aren't ready for is something that new jumpers need to be aware of. I was, because a mentor specifically told me. I was lucky, because if I hadn't had that person around, I probably would've gone on a few of those skydives before figuring out that I didn't have the skill yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #15 June 7, 2005 Yes, some men are definitely treated differently than others. I know of one specifically and will let him post his experiences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aggie04 0 #16 June 7, 2005 If anything I think I get more training and am more protected because I am a girl. I jump at two dz's and at both people watch out for me left and right. I have people checking my gear 4 and 5 times, giving me advice, making sure I am comfortable with the dives, etc. At the new dz ive been jumping at I joke about how everyone there, especially the guys, treat me like I am their little sister. Maybe its because I'm a girl, maybe its because I am a small girl, who knows...but it's not a bad thing in my opinion. I hope when I have thousands of jumps I am still treated the same way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A life without a cause is a life without an effect Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #17 June 7, 2005 duh www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #18 June 7, 2005 Its both, and there's a lot more that goes into how you are treated at the DZ than whether you are male or female. I've seen men and women get "special treatment" and mentoring. I've also seen men and women no one wants to jump with. But I will agree its true that the cute girl who comes to the DZ once a month or so to do a skydive (barely current, minimal skills) is more likely to get invited on a load or even just a 2 way with an experienced jumper than the guy who does the same thing. THAT is something I have seen more than once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #19 June 7, 2005 Yes they do. [Sterotype mode] Women are generally more conservative and cautious and need to be encouraged to do more, try new things. Men OTOH generally need to be held back so their egos don't write checks their skills can't cash. [/Sterotype mode]Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #20 June 7, 2005 I wasnt going to comment in the other thread but I will here. The answer is yes women are more likely to get put on loads they shouldn't be on. If someone thinks that a male ego doesn't get in the plane, they might want to think again. I will also say that it doesnt just happen to women. How do I know, because it happened to me for about 5 years,. This was so true in the 80's and 90's, not so much now do to the fact that people are dying or just forget. Because of my last name, people would always assume that I "knew it all" even with low jump numbers. He's been around the sport all his life he knows what he is doing. My study guide for the A was the actual test.. My water training was like this: What are you going to do if you are going to land in the water J? reply " get out of my gear and swim" Here is your B. Haven't you heard the old joke? Instructor1 : did you see the cute AFF student. Instructor 2 No? Instructor 1: she's hot! Instructor 2 Don't let her graduate. Sex, ego's, and flirtation are just human behaviors. They are REAL, they exist, and they will never go away. Are they the correct thing to do, of course not, are there people that are not guilty of those behaviors? Absolutely, & I salute you. Its real people, its time for a reality check. Instructors.....dont do it Upcoming jumpers: take care of your self and go slow. I dont make the rules, I just learned. There is really nothing to debate on this subject in my opinion. Some might get there chest puffed up and Say: Not at my DZ" I say BS! maybe not as much, but its real. Maybe not with the instructor, but what about a coach, fun jumper, are you going to tell me that you monitor ALL conversations, all loads etc..... I am not targeting anyone with the use of the word "you" . No attacks, please I have had a hard day my .02$ worth, what ever that is.... Good Day ok here goes, do i push enter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiaKrembs 0 #21 June 7, 2005 STALK!!!! Raddest ho this side of Jersey #1 - rest in peace brother Beth lost her cherry and I missed it .... you want access to it, but you don't want to break it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #22 June 7, 2005 Okay folks, this is the real world. . .in the real world men and women get treated differently everywhere as do blacks, whites, asians, native americans, etc, etc ad nauseum. . . I am sure we would like to believe that the world is different and that all are treated as equals. . .but it just isn't so. . . My 2 cents. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #23 June 7, 2005 I agree that generally, men and women are treated differently. However, when that different treatment makes things dangerous, like pressure to go on jumps you're not ready for, then it ought to be addressed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #24 June 8, 2005 OK, I'll bite... I was treated differently than guys by fellow jumpers, definitely invitied on dives, helped with packing, etc, that if I were a guy i'm sure would not have happened. However, this DID NOT extend to my AFF. I am 100% sure that my AFF training was just as strict as the guys get it. I even repeated a level for not checking altimeter on time. I was treated professionally as a person, not as a pretty chick. If instructors are playing favorites or are slacking on instruction for some people for their level of hotness, then SHAME ON THEM! Glad that didn't happen to me! -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #25 June 8, 2005 I understand what you are saying Kris but ultimately in this sport we as men and women need to be responsible for our own actions. . .I personally have been on skydives I probably should not have been on but since I jump at Elsi I don't feel it was a guy girl thing at all. . .at Elsi there are just too many women. . .the ratio is all off compared to other DZs________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
