Conatiners for freeflying

[ColdDuck 0]

For all you freefliers out there I am just curious. In your opinions what are the best containers for freeflying on the market today ? In my meager experience it seems to me that the Mirage is the frontrunner.
Any comments are welcome Thanks.

[skybytch 259]

The Mirage is a good container for freeflying. The Vector 3, Infinity, Voodoo, Wings and Javelin are good containers for freeflying. There are also others - basically any container that has good bridle protection, secure main and reserve flaps and riser covers is good for freeflying.
imho the most expensive piece of equipment isn't necessarily the best choice. Jump a couple different brands and find out which is most comfortable on your body. That's the rig to buy, not what I or anyone else thinks or says is the best.
pull and flare,
lisa
----
I am a nobody.
Nobody's perfect.
Therefore, I am perfect!

[Geoff 0]

I agree with all of this except that the Javelin is on your list (and I can't remember what an Infinity looks like). Even the newer Javelins don't have really secure main or reserve flaps. The other rigs mentioned all have a 'midflap' design, which is much more secure, IMHO.
But hey - Javelin's the market leader, so it must be the best, no?
Geoff

[JordyBoy12786 0]

I just bought a brand new Mirage G4 and i am impressed with the way it moves with your body. All time best freeflying rig on the market. A little pricey but you get what you pay for. Only the best.

[Merkur 1]

Hi!
Coming from Europe, I prefer the NEXT from Paratec. It's also the choice our National Freefly team - which doesn't have to say anything.

M.

vSCR No.94
Don't dream your life - live your dream!

[Peej 0]

I jump a Mirage but would like to add the Voretx II to your list. Great container.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[Ncrowe 0]

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I agree with all of this except that the Javelin is on your list (and I can't remember what an Infinity looks like). Even the newer Javelins don't have really secure main or reserve flaps. The other rigs mentioned all have a 'midflap' design, which is much more secure, IMHO.

But hey - Javelin's the market leader, so it must be the best, no?

Geoff

Infinity's do not have the midflap design and do look a lot like the javelins main flap design except that infinity's won't come open at all. You can literally pick up the rig by the main flap and it will stay closed.

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[Frenchy68 0]

Anyone with feedback on the Icon?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Newbie 0]

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The Mirage is a good container for freeflying. The Vector 3, Infinity, Voodoo, Wings and Javelin are good containers for freeflying. There are also others - basically any container that has good bridle protection, secure main and reserve flaps and riser covers is good for freeflying.

imho the most expensive piece of equipment isn't necessarily the best choice. Jump a couple different brands and find out which is most comfortable on your body. That's the rig to buy, not what I or anyone else thinks or says is the best.

pull and flare,
lisa
----
I am a nobody.
Nobody's perfect.
Therefore, I am perfect!

What she said.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Trae 1]

If you like pop-tops (quickest reserve pilot chute deployment with no flaps to push out of the way) then it's hard to go past a Reflex.

Some people will say they're no good because of such and such but any problems they may have had other rigs have also demonstrated..more often .

The Reflex also has a double reserve pilot chute set up further increasing the reserve deployment performance.
Some of the most experienced people I know won't jump with anything but a pop-top.

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[hookitt 0]

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Some of the most experienced people I know won't jump with anything but a pop-top.

Funny you should say that becuase...

Some of the most experienced people I know won't jump with a pop-top.
FYI: I chose the Infinity.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Frenchy68 0]

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Some of the most experienced people I know won't jump with anything but a pop-top.

What do the others jump?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Trae 1]

in reply to;'Funny you should say that becuase...

Some of the most experienced people I know won't jump with a pop-top. '

You and those experienced people you talk about mustn't have had to scrape up the left overs after
reserves that wouldn't open due to reserve pilot chutes and reserve bridles entangling with closing flaps...........
................................sort of changed our minds a bit about closing flaps over the top of reserve PC's

Also I wonder how many bench reserve activations you've seen fail due to pilot chutes getting caught beneath closing flaps?.

[Zeemax 0]

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[You can literally pick up the rig by the main flap and it will stay closed.

and a main flap that wont open is good because...?

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[hookitt 0]

I'm going to turn that around and ask, what brand and model rig were you witness to either of those scenario's occuring, and when?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Trae 1]

in reply to hookitts "I'm going to turn that around and ask, what brand and model rig were you witness to either of those scenario's occuring, and when? "

You can TRY to turn my comments around (or anything else for that matter ) if you want..

in reply to Coldduck's original question

I also recommend the Teardrop (pop top ) and at a push the Javelin ..which is also a pop-topish design .

Have fun poppin' away

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[wildblue 4]

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You and those experienced people you talk about mustn't have had to scrape up the left overs after
reserves that wouldn't open due to reserve pilot chutes and reserve bridles entangling with closing flaps...........

Which has probably happened about as often (or less) as things getting snagged on exposed pop-tops.

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The Reflex also has a double reserve pilot chute set up

And hasn't that killed people too?

No design is perfect. There's pros and cons to everything. Arguing how one proven design is worse or better than another is futile.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[jsaxton 0]

Javelin, you can buy a better container, but you can't pay more ;)

[Trae 1]

in reply to 'No design is perfect. There's pros and cons to everything. Arguing how one proven design is worse or better than another is futile. "

Granted .

--some people make their own minds up based on info they get from where-ever when-ever .


Pop-tops are a bit trickier to get just right and it usually takes a rigger or packer that is experienced at the specifics of pop-toppery to get them closed as they were designed.

A lot of the problems experienced by pop-tops (such as the ones you mentioned ) can be put down to them being packed by people that don't really know what they're doing. or by putting in a reserve too big or too small for the container.

The fact that the pilot chute is basically already out of the container in a pop-top design and doesn't have to push past any flaps still carries a lot of design advantages over a reserve PC that may have to push past several flaps before it gets into any slipstream. The pop-top design makes for a quicker reserve deployment . its just simple physics ..time and motion.

Obviously the other designs work OK .....I personally feel that they're just not as good .

So far so good.

[Trae 1]

and a main flap that wont open is good because...?
--


Goin' cheap.......... a rig you can pick up by the reserve handle ..shake the sheet out of and it still won't let down or get off .............going cheap today only.

Only a few left .....HURRY

[Kris 0]

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and a main flap that wont open is good because...?

Because it protects the pin better. On the Mirage, it doesn't have to open for deployment. There have been a few occasions where I've landed and my main flap was still closed.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[sundevil777 93]

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[You can literally pick up the rig by the main flap and it will stay closed.

and a main flap that wont open is good because...?

A main flap that will not open until the pin is pulled is good, but of course it all can open easily once the pin is pulled (much like the reserve flap on a Vector III). Not all downward closing/tucking main flaps are made alike. The Infinity's is very good, but really the picking up the rig test only works if you lift on both sides a few inches from the lower end.

The rigs with upward tucking flaps cannot come close to withstanding such a pull on the flap. Many think it is obvious that the upward tucking flap is more secure, but I disagree. It is possible to get either type to dislodge in a 'funnel and something dragging across the rig' scenario, especially for the upward tucking flaps that do not sit flush - a very common situation.

As far as pop tops being inherently better - not vulnerable to being misrigged in a way that could cause a bad launch, I remember a report of a cap being applied in a way that kept the PC from opening. Others will probably be able to say what type of rig that was. If the PC on a Reflex is rotated, it will not launch (or will you have a hard pull?), and there are probably ways that a Racer can be done to disable the PC.

What I think is a big advantage, is having a rig that doesn't require tricks or unusual bulk management techniques. I want my rigger to be able to do a simple, neat packjob, where it is more likely that it will only have to be done once, instead of having to adjust again and again how much fabric is stuffed into the ears or whatever else is required to get the final result good. Many well respected riggers say absolutely that Infinities have a well deserved reputation for being easy to pack, and I like that this should apply to all riggers, not just the ones that have been schooled on the good 'tricks'. I understand that a properly trained rigger will find Racers easy to pack, but the simple fact is that many don't, and we don't always have a choice of who does it. It is just not useful to say that they should all get the right training, this isn't a perfect rigging world. Also, I see a lot of rigs with fully and partially exposed PCs that need to be adjusted to make them right. Not for me, no thanks.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[DeNReN 0]

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and a main flap that wont open is good because...?

Because it protects the pin better. On the Mirage, it doesn't have to open for deployment. There have been a few occasions where I've landed and my main flap was still closed.

I have only 12 jumps on my new Wings...the main flap has never been open when I land...everything else is..but that flap is still protecting the long gone closing pin...dedication I tell ya

Intresting resurection of a very old thread...seems to me that all new design rigs(containers) are engineered to be FF... free fly (flail..in my case) friendly....velcro for the most part has been done away with and replaced by stiffened closing flaps(evolution is great isnt it?)....hip rings have become the norm...gota keep us comphy....and the newest standard feature(development) seems to be riser inserts...chop that piece of crap away even if your in line twists to the point of choking yourself....skyhook for the ultra cautious....etc.etc......

The sport evolves

[Trae 1]

inreply to :'I understand that a properly trained rigger will find Racers easy to pack, but the simple fact is that many don't, and we don't always have a choice of who does it.'
................

I agree with most of what you've said here and it is certainly good to hear that Infinities are the most fool proof rig around ...good pointer nfor people who have to accept a lower standard of reserve packer.

As you say we don't live in a perfect world but that shouldn't stop us in our pursuit of excellence.(here I am talking about the persuit of excellence and I can't even spell it)

If riggers are in general receiving less than perfect training them perhaps that is what the real issue is here not which preference for which container is better or not so better.

If we don't insist on decent standards that aim high then what we get will be substandard or the pursuit of mediocrity or worse.

I like to find a rigger I can trust as being highly qualified and not just some poorly trained packer out to make a few extra bucks.

..........but each to his own.

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[JohnMitchell 14]

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Also I wonder how many bench reserve activations you've seen fail due to pilot chutes getting caught beneath closing flaps?.

Just one, 24 years ago, and that rig is off the market. Saw a poptop hang up (Racer) on the closing loops going through all that stuff.