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ChrisL

Good god. The gear industry has gone insane!

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I have a hard time believing that a container cost 2-3k to make. Flame away!



Not flaming... just something a newer jumper might not have thought of:

skydiving gear is, compared to most products, extremely low-volume, labor-intensive, and highly cusomized. Containers specifically are customized to an incredible degree today (yes, quite a bit more than in the past!)

You want an affordable rig? Go to the Jumpshack website and order a Shadow Racer. You can get it brand new and custom fit for $1350! It comes with zero options, and you can get it in any color you want as long as it's Black... but it's an excellent quality container that's very comfortable and will last you 20 years if taken care of. It's the VW Beetle of harness/containers.

But most people don't want that... they want a vector III in tie-dye, "oh shit" embroidered on the cutaway handle, a skyhook, stainless steel hardware, an articulated harness, a "freefly" PC handle, and magnetic riser covers. Well, I have nothing against people wanting all that, but it's gonna cost you... to the tune of $2500+, because it's the Ferrari of harness/containers.

Me, I take the middle path... I've got the fancy shit (Vector III + skyhook, Sabre2, PD Reserve, Cypres, and a 2nd main, Sabre1 in my closet), but I bought most of it used. My total gear cost over 1100+ jumps and 8+ years is $5,500. That includes the purchase of 2 containers, 3 mains, 2 reserves, and 1 AAD, plus paying to resize my harness and add the skyhook, minus the money I got from selling what I no longer use. It's all in great shape, and I intend to use this gear for another several years at least (except the cypres, which has another year or so till it expires).
"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

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because it's the Ferrari of harness/containers.



Yea i got 2 of those new "Ferrari's" but i can aford that, and people that cant should stop bitching about the price and buy a cheaper new/used rig, or learn to build them cheaper themselfs. If they can make them cheaper im sure they could sell a few....B|:P
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

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because it's the Ferrari of harness/containers.



Yea i got 2 of those new "Ferrari's" but i can aford that, and people that cant should stop bitching about the price and buy a cheaper new/used rig, or learn to build them cheaper themselfs. If they can make them cheaper im sure they could sell a few....B|:P



:oWow, you have 2? And can afford them both on top of that?:D And you were right, who was I to think that a gear and rigging forum meant we could talk about things that pertained to gear and rigging? My apologies.

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Of course this forum is to talk about gear but why cry like a girl scout that you cant afford the best out there.



very well put.

also how about "if it's not necessary, and you can't afford it - then you don't need it". In other words NONE of us NEED skydiving gear. It's a hobby. Just like I may want a Porsche, but cannot afford one, though, theoretically can get one with my credit - how do you think the Porsche internet forum will treat me posting "those prices are through the roof" ???

carry on :)

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I think you say it best in your interest:D:D

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And I LOVE telling people how it really is - which usually involves telling them that they are whiny spoiled brats.



:D:D:D:D



yeah, unfortunately my BIASED opinion is heavily influenced by lifetime of working with people. Of course people, being individually unique never seize to amaze me, both in good and bad ways.

Of course gear is getting expensive - but relative to the cost of everything else, is the PERCENTAGE of price increase really that drastic ?

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O.k. I give. Simple statement was made that alot of people are kept from enjoying this sport or "hobby" as your sidekick put it because of the cost factor. Nothing more. Far from whining about it. Simple conversation about the cost of things. I also dont have any problems buying the best out there. Wish I had known we were gonna have a peter measuring contest. Kinda caught me off guard.:D

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thx to the price hike my canopy never loses value..

at this rate ill be able to sell my used rig in 10 years for the price i bought it for...

Dear Icarus Canopies..

Can you please raise your current price on Crossfire to $10000 so i can sell my used x-fire for a price of $5000, i kinda need money..
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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O.k. I give. Simple statement was made that alot of people are kept from enjoying this sport or "hobby" as your sidekick put it because of the cost factor. Nothing more. Far from whining about it. Simple conversation about the cost of things. I also dont have any problems buying the best out there. Wish I had known we were gonna have a peter measuring contest. Kinda caught me off guard.:D



BS...
Very few people are cut out to be a skydiver. Doing a tandem here and there is not what I mean..

I did a tandem as a gift to someone else last December, its all I could think about till I had the cash for my A license 2 months later...

Since March I have jumped alot but not as much as I would like to, the only reason I have been able to afford to jump and buy my own rig (a killer deal for a 3 year old setup for 2 grand) is because MY PRIORITES HAVE CHANGED!

It's the same reason so many instructors live at the dropzone or stay in the bunkhouse.

Before my tandem jump I wanted a new truck (mine has 190,000 miles on it) a new TV, upgrade my PC, etc.... but my biggest concern now is my RW suit...

Let jumps go up to 50 bux and rigs to 8 grand I will never stop jumping...less jumps for sure but never regretting any of it at any time...

That tandem jump I did 6 months ago changed my life forever...I honestly feel like I won the lottery....but without the actual $$$$$

I finally understand its not what you have but what you do!!

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>I have a hard time believing that a container cost 2-3k to make. Flame away!

Yet most people order a lot of expensive options. That's why there are $3000 rigs - because people want the tie-dyed 18 color pinstripe option with the spacer foam and the freefly handle. That's what manufacturers see.

There have been several efforts to make a very cheap rig (the Dolphin, the Genera) to appeal to the "common folk." These are decent, safe rigs intended to be lower cost. They did not sell all that well.

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Let jumps go up to 50 bux and rigs to 8 grand I will never stop jumping...less jumps for sure but never regretting any of it at any time...



That day might not be far away.. in Europe we've reached $36-47 for a jump ticket.

This might be a bit OT but the whole thread is OT.... :)

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Ticket is ~39$ here in Serbia (25euro).
10k feet from Cessna 182 (or Queen air).
The people are jumping less and less (even when there are more and more of them - strange).
We, the lucky ones that got into the tandem story can still manage somehow. But "profit", if i can call it like that, is less and less.
i`m no whining.
dudeist skydiver #42

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There have been several efforts to make a very cheap rig (the Dolphin, the Genera) to appeal to the "common folk." These are decent, safe rigs intended to be lower cost. They did not sell all that well.



I would venture a guess that they know that while those rigs are cheap, they might look cheap or they just don't want to get teased about jumping cheap gear. :P

When I bought my Infinity container brand new in late 1997, it was possibly the 2nd or 3rd cheapest container on the market, the Dolphin is the only one that I knew for sure was cheaper. It's served me very well since, and yes, it was customized. I believe it cost me $650.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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There have been several efforts to make a very cheap rig (the Dolphin, the Genera) to appeal to the "common folk." These are decent, safe rigs intended to be lower cost. They did not sell all that well.



The basic Wings offering is close enough in price that I think it poaches most of the potential Dolphin sales. I found it to be one of the most comfortable rental options before I found it to be one of the cheapest, and certainly it looks better than the Dolphin. Part of the cheaper price is in having standard sizing for the different pieces of the harness, rather than make each one to custom measurements.

On that, is it good having every element correct to the inch? What if you gain or lose size? Does it becoming annoyingly off, or is it still better because you started from the best initial fit?

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On that, is it good having every element correct to the inch? What if you gain or lose size? Does it becoming annoyingly off, or is it still better because you started from the best initial fit?



What would you suggest? Order your rig to big in case you gain weight? Or order it to small on the chance you lose weight? It costs the same to build it either way. It takes the same amount of time to cut an 18” MLW as it does to cut the parts for a 13” MLW.

The manufacture of a harness/container system is extremely labor intensive. For years they were built by skydivers who had some good ideas about what they wanted in a rig. They were not very good business men and usually made very little profit. Now that the cost of rigs reflects the cost of R&D, testing, materials and labor to produce something to a very limited market that market squeaks.

Skydiving is an expensive past time, deal with it.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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On that, is it good having every element correct to the inch? What if you gain or lose size? Does it becoming annoyingly off, or is it still better because you started from the best initial fit?



What would you suggest? Order your rig to big in case you gain weight? Or order it to small on the chance you lose weight? It costs the same to build it either way. It takes the same amount of time to cut an 18” MLW as it does to cut the parts for a 13” MLW.



The question was does custom tailoring result in a more flexible fit for seasonal body variations than a more off the rack sizing as done by Wings. Seems like it should be so, but perhaps not. One definitely pays a price for the customization.

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One definitely pays a price for the customization.



I agree with you on this point. But I see “customization” such as, tie died, special foam back pads, 26 colors, embroidery on the handles and other just for looks items that serve no function except to increase the cost of production. Manufactures will build anything jumpers want. In my opinion jumpers have driven up the cost of rigs through their need to be “cool”.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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>I would venture a guess that they know that while those rigs are
>cheap, they might look cheap or they just don't want to get teased about
>jumping cheap gear.

Right - they want something that looks cooler, and are willing to pay for it.

In the end, that's why gear is so expensive. We are willing to pay $3000 for a rig with all the options, so manufacturers charge $3000 a rig. We don't buy cheap rigs, so manufacturers don't make cheap rigs.

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the value of the dollar is only going to get worse. With two up and coming raises in minimum wage the value of the dollar is going to hurt really bad and will impact everyone and make it more difficult for our country to bounce back economically.

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An issue with gear in the US is that it needs to have a TSO and a lot of overseas gear does not have TSO certification on it. That makes it illegal for a US citizen to jump it here.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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