mnealtx 0 #26 June 12, 2008 QuoteQuotebut I doubt most people know that. I think you are right. Sparky Couldn't a "Jesus rope" be considered the first RSL?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #27 June 12, 2008 QuoteCouldn't a "Jesus rope" be considered the first RSL? A “last hope rope” or as you say a “Jesus rope” does not pull the ripcord. It is hooked to the top or side flap of the container. You pull on it if you have a container lock after pulling the ripcord. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 June 12, 2008 Thanks for the correction - I thought I had seen it (Stevens lanyard) referred to as a Jesus rope before.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #29 June 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteIs the Collin's Lanyard available for licensing separate from the Skyhook? If it is, why wasn't there really an (apparent) marketing push for it until the Skyhook? That's a good question. Two reasons: 1. I won't license anything until it is throughly proven on my product. Usually that take about five years, or a million jumps or so. (I remember only too well how some other manufacturers almost ruined the three ring by making "improvements") 2. Once it was proven, I incorporated the Collins' into the Skyhook, and the test period started all over again. And now that the Skyhook is a proven item, (over seven thousand in use, with millions of jumps, and thousands of actual uses) I can't believe anyone would want to jump with an RSL without a Skyhook. It simply doesn't make any sense. So I decided to license them both, as a unit, last year. As you can see, I went about introducing the Skyhook very methodically, because I knew that because it was such a radial idea, if even one serious problem happened within the first 5 years / 1 million jumps, that the whole idea would be dead. Luckily everything has gone well, and the Skyhook/ Collins' Lanyard seems to be the most technically perfect device I have yet developed. From what I've gathered reading back issues of magazines and stuff, you made the addition of the Collin's Lanyard mandatory on all of your tandem rigs in the field when it was introduced, but I've never seen it mentioned at all in any advertisements for your soprt or student rigs from then until the Skyhook. I have an old Para-Gear catalog from '99-'00, and the ad for your student rig mentions an RSL, but doesn't mention the Collin's Lanyard. Wouldn't your "proving stage" go faster if you had it available on these rigs too? Why not license the Collin's Lanyard to other manufacturers after your first "proving stage" if there is such a need to keep people safe? It seems like such a simple device that it would be hard for someone mess it up- left side cable goes through loop attached to RSL lanyard- pretty basic. Certainly more basic than the system you license it with, no? (I watched a Skyhook demo jump in Elsinore a couple of years ago that was just a normal RSL deployment). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #30 June 12, 2008 QuoteI've seen one have the lower ring ripped right off in person about 4 years ago. Its not an everyday occurance but it does happen. Wow, I don't remember that! I know Woody had a riser fail on a brutally hard opening in about that same timeframe, was it the same event? I thought his failed above the RSL though... could be wrong. Regardless, the facts are: - Risers do fail, however rarely - At least one fatality has occured as a result of a failed riser and subsequent main-reserve entaglement - The Collin's Lanyard is simple, cheap, and effective, and can/will prevent future fatalities For something that adds almost no cost to the rig, I say the cost/benefit ratio is acceptable, even if it only saves 1 person per decade. I've got one on mine (came with the skyhook mod)."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #31 June 12, 2008 I am beginning to think I should have asked this question in General rather that Gear and Rigging. The crowd over here tends to be a lot more "heads up" than your average skydiver. I know I had No Clue what a Collins Lanyard was before I went to work for Bill. Mark Klingelhoefer edited for spelling (again) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #32 June 12, 2008 For those that are interested and not familiar, could you post a diagram of how the lanyard works? Danke mucho.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #33 June 12, 2008 QuoteFor those that are interested and not familiar, could you post a diagram of how the lanyard works? Danke mucho. A sus ordenes... See attachment 1 (lanyard.jpg). The release cable for the LH riser goes through the loop at the bottom of the Collins lanyard (black lanyard in pic). Attachment 2 (lanyard2.jpg) shows a closeup. Edit to add: lanyard2 changed to show a better pic of it in the rig.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #34 June 12, 2008 QuoteFor those that are interested and not familiar, could you post a diagram of how the lanyard works? Danke mucho. Just a little explanation for the picture. As the RSL travels away from your body, the pin is pulled. While this happens, the non-RSL side riser is cutaway (if it is still there) by the loop in the RSL and the split housing (exposing the cutaway cable). Hope this helps. Ihr Willkommen, Mark Klingelhoefer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #35 June 12, 2008 Damn, you beat me to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #36 June 12, 2008 QuoteDamn, you beat me to it. Your explanation was better, though!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #37 June 12, 2008 QuoteFor those that are interested and not familiar, could you post a diagram of how the lanyard works? Danke mucho. I don't really know how skyhooks work and I'm not sure what a collins lanyard would look like on a rig w/ left side RSL, but on a right side RSL rig it's as easy as Mary RottenCrotch. Picture a 12 inch piece of stout line, e.g. 1500 lb Spectra (UPT probably specifies something) with a loop fingertrapped on each end. One loop is larger and goes around the front RSL side riser. The smaller loop goes around the non-RSL side cutaway cable between the handle and the cable housing. Thus if the RSL side riser breaks, the lanyard pulls the non RSL side cutaway cable (albeit at an odd angle between the handle and the housing). In a normal cutaway, the cable is simply extracted from the small loop. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 June 12, 2008 It's a nice solution to an infrequent problem. Only downside is a very slight increase in complexity (i.e. one more thing to misroute and/or snag.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #39 June 12, 2008 QuoteIt's a nice solution to an infrequent problem. Only downside is a very slight increase in complexity (i.e. one more thing to misroute and/or snag.) On the bright side, the only reasonable misrouting I can think of is no worse than not having the lanyard to begin with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #40 June 12, 2008 It was Woody's. At the time I posted some pictures of the failed riser. They are linked in this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=614922#614922 The lower ring is missing completely. It was back in 2003 (Damn, was it that long ago?!) If anyone wants to see what a total riser failure looks like that thread has some good pictures in it.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #41 June 13, 2008 Quote Just a little explanation for the picture. Please type really slow so Sean will understand.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #42 June 13, 2008 Quote Quote Just a little explanation for the picture. Please type really slow so Sean with understand.Sparky he'll understand better if you use the correct wordsYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #43 June 13, 2008 I remember the fist mention of Collins Lanyard in the Skydiving Magazine in 1998. It looked different then. Actually, it was a SEPERATE piece of line, connecting right RSL riser to the left cutaway cabe (= the Collins Lanyard looked like a piece of Spectra line with loops at its ends). It is simplified now - I like the current design better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
malcom42 0 #44 June 13, 2008 Quote...Only downside is a very slight increase in complexity (i.e. one more thing to misroute and/or snag.) See Parachutist 06/08 page 85 Good advice - I'll check mine before the next jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #45 June 13, 2008 QuoteI can't believe anyone would want to jump with an RSL without a Skyhook. It simply doesn't make any sense. So I decided to license them both, as a unit, last year. Yes, but the Collins lanyard could probably be retrofitted to most existing rigs that cannot have a Skyhook retrofitted. I can't see too many people replacing perfectly good rigs just to get a Skyhook."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #46 June 13, 2008 QuoteQuoteI can't believe anyone would want to jump with an RSL without a Skyhook. It simply doesn't make any sense. So I decided to license them both, as a unit, last year. Yes, but the Collins lanyard could probably be retrofitted to most existing rigs that cannot have a Skyhook retrofitted. I can't see too many people replacing perfectly good rigs just to get a Skyhook. Actually, the Integrated Collins' Lanyard can be a harder retrofit than the Skyhook itself. It requires the RSL be moved to the right side, split breakaway housings be installed, with a new ripcord and ripcord cable housing installation. For rigs without the open yoke design of the Vector, this can be very difficult. I quess the old, external retrofit that we did on our tandem rigs could be done, but that was a rather ugly patch-job that most sport jumpers wouldn't want on the sleek new rigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #47 June 14, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteI can't believe anyone would want to jump with an RSL without a Skyhook. It simply doesn't make any sense. So I decided to license them both, as a unit, last year. Yes, but the Collins lanyard could probably be retrofitted to most existing rigs that cannot have a Skyhook retrofitted. I can't see too many people replacing perfectly good rigs just to get a Skyhook. Actually, the Integrated Collins' Lanyard can be a harder retrofit than the Skyhook itself. It requires the RSL be moved to the right side, split breakaway housings be installed, with a new ripcord and ripcord cable housing installation. For rigs without the open yoke design of the Vector, this can be very difficult. I quess the old, external retrofit that we did on our tandem rigs could be done, but that was a rather ugly patch-job that most sport jumpers wouldn't want on the sleek new rigs. Replacing housings is no big deal - but yeah, I forgot about the closed yoke. Why the requirement for a new ripcord and ripcord housing?"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #48 June 14, 2008 If you didn't previously have one of my RSL's, you'll need a pinless, marine eye ripcord, and the full size housing to fit it. Skyhook conversion is easy if you have a pre-existing RWS/UPT RSL. (This is beginning to look like a text message.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #49 June 15, 2008 I'm just curious if you're going to answer my questions...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #50 June 15, 2008 QuoteIf you didn't previously have one of my RSL's, you'll need a pinless, marine eye ripcord, and the full size housing to fit it. Skyhook conversion is easy if you have a pre-existing RWS/UPT RSL. (This is beginning to look like a text message.) Yes, I am familiar with that ripcord/RSL setup. What I was asking was why the requirement for that setup?"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
