Tips for buying gear online without being scammed.

[GravityGirl 0]

Here are a few tips I use when buying and selling used gear online. Thought it might be helpfull after reading some of the posts here:

1) Ask the seller/buyer where they jump.
2) Ask the seller/buyer their riggers name.
3) Ask the seller/buyer what license they hold and with what agency. (Ex: D license USPA)

If they are really a skydiver, you can check up on them by shooting an e-mail to their home dz.

You can verify gear condition by shooting an e-mail to their rigger. Also verifies ownership status to a certain extent.

In the case of you being the seller, license can help verify if they are qualified to jump what you are selling.

4) Use a broker whenever possible. I know I offer this service at Gravity Gear as well as several others here on dz.com.

5) If the deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. Check the stolen gear lists available to you.

It's a small world and a small industry. Everybody knows somebody, so verify before you buy!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[VincentVL. 0]

- NEVER PAY THROUGH WESTERN UNION

- OFFER TO COME AND PICK UP THE RIG YOURSELF. IF YOU CAN'T...PASS (this doesn't guarantee that if they agree you won't get scammed, or if they don't agree that it is in fact a scam)

- LATELY THERE HAVE BEEN LOTS OF RIGS FROM ITALY.

- WHY WOULD SOMEONE SELL A RIG 2000 DOLLARS UNDERVALUE? THAT'S RIGHT...IT'S A SCAM

[likestojump 3]

Quote

- NEVER PAY THROUGH WESTERN UNION

- OFFER TO COME AND PICK UP THE RIG YOURSELF. IF YOU CAN'T...PASS (this doesn't guarantee that if they agree you won't get scammed, or if they don't agree that it is in fact a scam)

- LATELY THERE HAVE BEEN LOTS OF RIGS FROM ITALY.

- WHY WOULD SOMEONE SELL A RIG 2000 DOLLARS UNDERVALUE? THAT'S RIGHT...IT'S A SCAM

My friend, I hate to keep going back, but : Western Union is a great tool Lots of our friends in South America and some parts of Europe love it.

Here's my list of things to help (and I sell LOTS of gear) :



GET THE SELLER ON THE PHONE - that will eliminate 99% of SCAMMERS.
USE PAYPAL - PAY WITH A CREDIT CARD. IF there are problems - charge back the credit card.
Get advice from somebody who is current with internet dealings - there are new fraud schemes every day, it's nice to take an extra 5 mins to get that piece of mind.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

(Ex: D license USPS)

Yep, if the Postal Service issued their license, that's definitely a red flag.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[BMFin 0]

On the first page of classifieds there are two very good articles for detecting and avoiding a scam.

http://www.dropzone.com/content/Detailed/594.html

http://www.dropzone.com/content/Detailed/593.html

[GravityGirl 0]

Bwa ahahahahaha.

UPS is also not a valid issuer of skydiving licenses. But you would be surprized how many bills I file in the USPA folder.

Dramatic side effect of being overworked and underpaid. LOL.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Remster 24]

Quote

My friend, I hate to keep going back, but : Western Union is a great tool Lots of our friends in South America and some parts of Europe love it.

And I would never use it. Yes, it sucks, but you know what: I lived in the UK for 4 years, and never had to use western union. I'm sorry, but WU just raises too many redflags for most of us.

Remster

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

I think #5 is the big one.

Also, ask questions about the gear... it's condition, DMF, # of jumps, previous owners, ect, and ALWAYS get pictures.

A honest seller won't hesitate to provide all this, while a dishonest seller may paint a bit too perfect of a picture for the price and raise reg flags. Sellers of stolen gear may have no idea what you're talking about, and it becomes obvious by vauge, confusing, or conflicting answers.

Poor english skills are a huge red flag in my book too... they could be nigerian, or they could just be lazy e-mailers, but I think it's fair to say that people who steal parachutes and sell them online are likley to have a below-average command of the written word.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[PhreeZone 15]

Extremely easy way to figure out if it is a scammer is to ask for a specific picture, say of the warning label or of the entire container with a copy of a magizine or newspaper in the photo. If you ask for a copy of that days newspaper to be in the photo you can at least know the seller has the gear in their posession and is not a clear scammer since they need to have the rig and the item at the same time.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

We have built in escrow service in this industry. Riggers.

I've bought several items of gear from overseas and had the equipment sent to a loft both myself and the vendor know. The loft then e-mails to say they have the gear and that it is at least the item described (though I wouldn't expect them to be telling my anything else about the kit without charging for a full inspection at least).

I then release payment. The vendor then e-mails the loft to confirm receipt of the payment and the item is mine. I can then organise shipping on from the loft by whatever means I wish.

I've never been charged for this service (though it may have been done due to the riggers relationship with the vendor) but equally, if I was asked to make a payment I would be happy to do so and have always tried to track the rigger down for beer payment next time I was in town.

You could even organise for the rigger to inspect the item and confirm if it is as described in the add - clearly though their fee would have to reflect this.

It's a built in system for otherwise risky gear transactions, and for riggers it's another potential revenue stream!

I'm not suggesting it's not potentially without risk for riggers, especially if they're getting involved with the certification of an item as being as described in a given add, but hell, their job is certifying gear and all they have to do is charge to reflect their exposure.

It's better than the only other secure option - travelling to pick the rig up yourself.

My mate sold his old rig to a Belgian jumper who would only conduct the transaction in person (fair enough). So the Belgian hopped a train to the UK and my mate went to meet them in London.

The transaction was completed in Waterloo station, with my friend opening the main out for a full inspection in the middle of the station, then re-packing it on the floor right in front of thousands of commuters.

Cash exchanged hands and both jumpers went on their way happy with the transaction.

[bigway 4]

Just buy from me. Case closed.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[GravityGirl 0]

The only issue with "using" your rigger is that internet sales are growing and there is quite a volume now. So check with your particular rigger to see if this is a service they welcome.

A lot of riggers simply don't have the time. And it is a big risk for nothing. A case of beer is cool and all, but nobody can pay their bills with beer. Perhaps forget about them for a little while.

I used to do this for free all the time as well. Then I realized that it was taking up a good portion of my work day. The bottom line is you only have a finite amount of time in the day dedicated to work and earning a living....

Since I started charging a nominal fee, I have not had any complaints and still get a lot of thank yous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[skybytch 259]

6) You can avoid the entire problem by either buying locally (dz, gear shop or private party) or from a well-known online gear dealer (who all carry at least some used equipment). You might pay a bit more, but peace of mind just might be worth it... not to mention that buying locally usually keeps your money working locally.

[peregrinerose 0]

This is true... although it may cost a few bucks more, you'd also save on shipping costs, so total will probably even out.

It will depend on geography as to how practical this is though, in FL, it would be easy to buy local, in nowheresville Idaho, there probably isn't a lot of gear for sale.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[fcajump 153]

Quote

Here are a few tips I use when buying and selling used gear online. Thought it might be helpfull after reading some of the posts here:

1) Ask the seller/buyer where they jump.
2) Ask the seller/buyer their riggers name.
3) Ask the seller/buyer what license they hold and with what agency. (Ex: D license USPA)

If they are really a skydiver, you can check up on them by shooting an e-mail to their home dz.

You can verify gear condition by shooting an e-mail to their rigger. Also verifies ownership status to a certain extent.

In the case of you being the seller, license can help verify if they are qualified to jump what you are selling.

4) Use a broker whenever possible. I know I offer this service at Gravity Gear as well as several others here on dz.com.

5) If the deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. Check the stolen gear lists available to you.

It's a small world and a small industry. Everybody knows somebody, so verify before you buy!

As someone else mentioned, RIGGERS are a great help. I also will do an informal escrow and pre-purchase inspection. Typically the buyer pays for the inspection and shipping, but anything can be worked out if spelled out IN ADVANCE.

Who is paying shipping?
Is the sale contingent upon inspection?
Who is paying for inspection (if part of the sale)?
Who is paying for return shipping if rejected?

Verify that the rigger is willing and able to turn around the inspection at the time you both want it.

Also, request serial numbers up front. Checking the stolen lists up front are better than later in the process.

Finally, know what you are looking for. You're spending a lot of money (often). Make sure that you do your homework and getting what you actually want.

Personal (recent) story
You can get some very good gear at reasonable prices. I wanted a new (used) canopy. Found two ads for the make/model/size I wanted (same price, one claiming 150 jumps and the other 350). Inspected one and found it to have >5 times the wear that the claimed number of jumps would account for and a 8"^2 patch not disclosed in the ad. Returned immediately with a summary report of what was found.
Inspected the second and found it exactly as advertised. Paid the seller his asking price then and there.
Sales contingent upon a rigger's inspections will save you alot of money and grief.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[grannyinthesky 0]

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It will depend on geography as to how practical this is though, in FL, it would be easy to buy local, in nowheresville Idaho, there probably isn't a lot of gear for sale.

I figure by summer I will be looking for used gear and from what I've seen so far, there isn't much used gear for sale in this area, let alone gear for a new jumper. It should be an interesting time, but at least I know enough not to go looking in Italy or sending money through WU

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[skybytch 259]

Quote

It will depend on geography as to how practical this is though, in FL, it would be easy to buy local, in nowheresville Idaho, there probably isn't a lot of gear for sale.

Which is why I suggested large online gear dealers. Square One, Sunshine Factory, Rigs and Things... these are companies that have been around for awhile. Used gear purchased through them will probably come with a riggers inspection and a return policy, and they'll ship just about anywhere.