DFWAJG 4 #1 August 4, 2007 Basically, from a safety standpoint, our skydiving helmets suck. They are nothing more than head buckets. While they may prevent the skull from cracking, they don't absorb the impact of a fall. Thus, the brain will absorb the impact and therefore, sustain a concussion. I went to Snell labs labs not long ago to find out what the standard is for helmet safety. Their standard is to line the helmet with styrofoam. Does anyone know of a skydiving helmet that is lined with styrofoam? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baseknut 0 #2 August 4, 2007 skydiving helmets are to prevent head trauma during exits and group skydives. and some of the better ones can save you ass in a midair collision. this is what i have always been told.Step into my (sub)terminal Playground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,071 #3 August 4, 2007 Business opportunity?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #4 August 4, 2007 In the military, free fall helmets provide three kinds of protection: -*bump* protection: prevents injury in case of inadvertent contact with the aircraft, another jumper in free fall, part of the parachute (e.g. risers), and the ground (or an obstacle) on landing. -*hearing* protection: helmets with an ear cup provide a modest level of hearing protection by themselves; used in conjunction with a simple E.A.R. Classic ear plug, properly inserted, the protection is excellent. -*warmth*: self-explanatory. These helmets also provide a mounting platform for other important equipment such as oxygen masks, night vision goggles, strobe lights, etc. But - they are not intended to provide *impact* protection like a motorcycle helmet is. MFF helmets are not tested to that degree. With a rare exception or two, they do not provide any *ballistic* protection either. The school of thought here is that during the majority of MFF jumps, if impact with the ground requires the protection of a helmet to prevent head injury, the rest of your body - also unprotected against the impact, will be incur much worse injury. In other words, if I bounce hard enough to need a helmet with impact protection, I have a lot worse problems than that. Take that mindset and add the liability risk of skydiving helmet manufacturers, and it's a safe bet you have answered the question "why don't skydiving helmets protect against impact?" Between myself and our safety officer, we have done a lot of homework on helmets and testing, including visits to the Snell Labs website you posted here (which is great information, BTW). During that research we discovered that the Gentex HGU-55/P helmet that has been used by MFF jumpers since the early 1980's has never truly been tested to determine the extent of its hearing protection! Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #5 August 4, 2007 QuoteBusiness opportunity? It's been circulating in my head...but I have no idea where to start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #6 August 4, 2007 I definately think our helmets are "better than nothing" and feel they can help when getting kicked in the head in midair by another jumper, etc. althought nothing is fail proof, I want something that can absorb at least SOME of the impact the ground imparts on the head to minimize the amount of head injury. A few weeks ago, on a not-so-elegant landing, I bumped my head. I was loopy for about twenty four hours. I felt a noticable difference when my "brain came back" if you will. If I had worn a helmet lined with styrofoam, would I have experienced that loopy feeling at all? Perhaps not. which brings me to the original question. does anyone know of a skydiving helmet that is lined with styrofoam? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #7 August 4, 2007 QuoteI definately think our helmets are "better than nothing" and feel they can help when getting kicked in the head in midair by another jumper, etc. althought nothing is fail proof, I want something that can absorb at least SOME of the impact the ground imparts on the head to minimize the amount of head injury. A few weeks ago, on a not-so-elegant landing, I bumped my head. I was loopy for about twenty four hours. I felt a noticable difference when my "brain came back" if you will. If I had worn a helmet lined with styrofoam, would I have experienced that loopy feeling at all? Perhaps not. which brings me to the original question. does anyone know of a skydiving helmet that is lined with styrofoam? Cycling helmets are worth their weight. My head recently bounced off the deck at 20 mph. The helmet sustained a few scratches and there was no damage to what brain I have. The helmets are extremely light weight and not bulky. I don't know why the same couldn't be done for skydiving helmets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #8 August 4, 2007 QuoteCycling helmets are worth their weight. My head recently bounced off the deck at 20 mph. No it did not. The speed of your head was about 8.5 mph vertically, which is what the helmets are designed to take care of. The abbrassion protection from the 20 mph slide has nothing to do with the impact protection from the vertical speed. Dont kid yourself: if you inpact a wall at 20mph, no bicycle helmet will protect you.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #9 August 5, 2007 which brings me to the original question. does anyone know of a skydiving helmet that is lined with styrofoam? *** ugly as they are, pro-tec helmets are likely the best you will find in the air. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #10 August 6, 2007 Glad your head is good Royd. Years ago, when I worked in an urgent care and bicycle helmets were first gaining popularity, I had a guy come in to be checked "just in case" after he fell off of a bridge. He and his boss had been cycling. They stopped to rest at a bridge. The guy looked over and fell on his head. Cracked the helmet in three places and he walked away without a concussion. I wanted to keep the helmet for display at the clinic to emphasize bicycle safety, but he wanted to take it home for a souvenir. Cycling helmets are worth their weight. It may look goofy, but I've decided to buy an open face motorcycle helmet for jumping. Some come with a kevlar mix so that they are very light weight. Plus, If I ever accidently land at the shooting range at Davis, I won't get shot in the head...kevlar is bullet proof! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #11 August 6, 2007 QuotePlus, If I ever accidently land at the shooting range at Davis, I won't get shot in the head...kevlar is bullet proof! No. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cadurso 0 #12 August 6, 2007 After lots of surfing and research I ended up getting a RED Skycap http://www.the-house.com/re8sc2b6zzredskycap.html snowboarding helmet. It offers rated impact protection, its not hugely thick, and hey it even has a fitting name. You can put a ditter inside the ear pocket (fits better with some trimming), its got adjustible vents and a soft lining. I've only jumped it 20 or so times and some stiching around the ear pad is already coming out but for $50 instead of $200 I can't fault it. Just something to maybe look into. If you get any snowboarding helmet make sure to take off the goggle holder thing on the back as it seemed like it could be a snag point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #13 August 6, 2007 QuoteQuotePlus, If I ever accidently land at the shooting range at Davis, I won't get shot in the head...kevlar is bullet proof! No. 1. The line was meant as a joke. 2. Kevlar is used in bullet proof vests and often the side doors of cop cars are lined with Kevlar for added bullet protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #14 August 6, 2007 And in marching snare drum heads!SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinhawxhurst 0 #15 August 6, 2007 If you want a helmet that will keep your brain in tacked go with a ski helmet. They are made to take impact with hard snow and trees. You will not be as cool as the other guys but your head will thank you if it gets hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #16 August 6, 2007 in reply to 'ugly as they are, pro-tec helmets are likely the best you will find in the air. ' ........................................... Have to agree with this . and they can fit so well they don't have to rely on over tightening the chin strap to hold it on. Still an excellent student helmet and beyond. If you jump with a lot of novices such a hat makes good sense...and who gives a stuff about the coolness factor ... its got to work is a priority! I've tried some newer carbon cool ones that were dangerous just to put on. One totally up to date but ineffective one cut the top of my nose just getting into it. It had an edge that looked like it had been sharpened. Looked coolish worked like shit. Apparently some poor sods have had their heads cut off by helmets that rotated on their noggin during the traumatic event. Other people have sustained neck and facial cuts from the helmet as it caught on something and moved. If you're trying a new ultra expensive carbon hat made by amateurs, see if it rotates about the axis through your ears. If there is much movement then it may actually end up hurting you rather than saving you. Also check the peripheral vision. A lot of cool helmets actually contribute to the likelihood of collisions by restriucting your vision. that said some newer hats can take extremely hard knocks and in some types of glancing collisions\impacts can do a lot of trauma protection. I think its a pity that hard hats are so common. Its like people don't have to be so careful anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #17 August 6, 2007 If you can find one the old army freefall helmets worked for me. Their covered in leather have lots of padding and ribs made of a hard material. They also come with clips for o2 masks, intercom earpieces, pull the dot adjustable chinstrap. Their hard to find and their nickname is "bunny helmet". Only down side is they don't provide full face protection unless your wearing the o2 mask and goggles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #18 August 6, 2007 The true name of that helmet is the MC-3 helmet; it was part of the MC-3 ensemble, which included a militarized Paracommander and chest mounted reserve. The MC-3 has been out of service since about 1986. Nobody calls it that though, they call it a bunny helmet as you said. There are not many left around anymore.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #19 August 6, 2007 QuoteSome come with a kevlar mix so that they are very light weight. Actually, let's point out a real advantage of using Kevlar in a helmet. Weight isn't really a factor. The weight of a composite helmet comes from the resin and weight of fabric used. You could get a lighter helmet with fiberglass. Kevlar is a very strong fiber under tension. If you have a impact with a large surface (tree trunk, ground, etc.), the resin will crack and let go of the Kevlar (if there is a good amount of force, which is what we're primarily talking about here I believe). The Kevlar fibers and fabric will very likely stay intact. it may fold and bend, but it will keep the contents of the helmet inside the "bag" of Kevlar (whatever escapes from your head will still be inside the helmet). Carbon fiber is a very different animal. It is okay under tension, but not as good under compression or sheer. When the resin does let go of it, it will splinter. You don't want to deal with that splintered edge either. If you ever thought fiberglass splinters were painful...try carbon fiber. It makes Kevlar edge fuzz look like a fluffy pillow to sleep on. Kevlar is the line of kids playing red-rover who refuse to let go of each other. If you do go with a composite weave, try to get one that has multiple layers and has both Kevlar and carbon fiber running in both axes. Off the Kevlar subject...are there any reports on the Skysystems "Benny" helmet?SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reinhart36 0 #20 August 8, 2007 Quotewhich brings me to the original question. does anyone know of a skydiving helmet that is lined with styrofoam? Protec. They're ugly and don't provide much hearing protection (full of holes/vents) though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #21 August 9, 2007 Quotedon't provide much hearing protection IMO, Pro-Tecs are louder than full covereage helmets because of the noise the wind makes rushing by the ear holes.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #22 August 9, 2007 I think these guys make more protective helmets than the 'standard' skydiving protec (which had no expanded foam): TSG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #23 August 9, 2007 I finally found my notes from Snell. Snell said that EPS (expanded polystyrofoam) is a must and should be at a minimum of 1 - 11/2 inches. They also said that fiberglass is acceptable, but also recommended carbon fiber, as it is light weight and strong. Ballistic nylon was also mentioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete-d-meat 0 #24 August 11, 2007 Quote Off the Kevlar subject...are there any reports on the Skysystems "Benny" helmet? I was wondering that too, tried to email them but didn't get a response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
