Should i get a skyhook?

[Newbie 0]

350 jumps, ordered my new Jav a while back, now told i have the option of the skyhook.

Always liked the look of what it does (those super low openings on reserve rides on URW site are incredible), but i'm flying camera (low profile Royal Lens on a low snag factor FF2, with cutaway chin cup). I want to get a 350D on the top mount sometime soon, so i'm upping my snag factor, but i'm staying away from ringsites.

I know there is the chance of an unrealised entangelent with the camera helmet which i cutaway from and the main is still attached on the non RSL side, but when i weight up from what i see and hear and learn on here, it seems more likely that i will end up getting sucked down on a cutaway, cutting away lower than i ever think i would do while imagining the situation on the ground and wishing i had a quicker opening reserve than the former situation.

I know an RSL and skyhook present the same issue for a camera flyer, but i think as is right now, my camera helmet is very low profile, without lots of protruding bits and pieces of the traditional image of what problems a camera helmet and all the goodies up there can produce in terms of snag factors.

Are there any people with low profile cameras/top mounts flying with the skyhook? Is this a case of risk managing the situation to decide which is worse, a hang up on the non RSL side with an unnoticed main in tow somewhere, or going low on a reserve ride? Am i missing something crucial to the argument that would help me make the call?

I know i can just unhook the skyhook like an rsl, but i always jump with my FF2 and camera, so technically i'm always "flying camera" anyway.

Thoughts?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

You can get the skyhook on a Javelin now?

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[Newbie 0]

On new Jav's yeah, it's a $250 option - old ones can't be retrofitted. Full annoucement due shortly, there is a thread on here posting a few links to early new breakers elsewhere.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[DJL 232]

You'd may as well, it's not like it's permanently attached.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kenneth21441 0]

Having seen all the test and being a owner of a skyhook. I would highly recommend it on a rig if you can get it. You may never know if you may need it or not but having it on the reserve is just like owning a AAD. You may never know if you may need it or not. But of course you have to start the cycle of cutting away to make the skyhook (this does not mean it will not work with the AAD or the actual pull of the reserve handle), I mean if you are unable to pull like being knocked out it will not work...

But if you do cut you can be assured a reserve out as fast as possible.'

WHat blew me away durning the test was all the possible problems they tested. Check out there web site for the video. It will help make the best choice.


thanks,

Ken..

Just my two cents..

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[USPA 0]

Quote

I know an RSL and skyhook present the same issue for a camera flyer,

This is not true. First IMHO the most dangerous part of a RSL with camerahelmet is entaglement with the freebag and/or bridle. The skyhook greatly reduces the change of this. In fact you get better odds with the skyhook, then without.

Later the skyhook adds more safety then a RSL does. Since the RSL vs non-RSL with camerahelmet is a trade-off issue, the benefits no stack up on the skyhook side.

Lastly somewhere on this forum, Bill Booth made some comments on this issue. You might want to read those.

Edited to add:

You can find them on this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=1868065;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;

BTW a simple search on "skyhook camera" results in 6 pages of people asking almost exacly the same.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[adventurechick 0]

I'd say go for it! I got to do an intentional cut away with a sky hook rig last weekend and I was simply amazed. My reserve was out in no time at all!!

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[parafredo 0]

Don't even think about not getting it on your new rig!It's a must and it should not be an option since you can disactivate it at any time.Go for it

[tdog 0]

I have a skyhook, and I use it with my FF2 helmet with no ring sites and no external still cameras.

Here are the factors I considered when I made my decision, but I would say you should make your own decision after thinking about it for a while...

I have rubbed strings all over the helmet. Something would have to break/crack open to become a snag point... The statistical chances that the helmet breaks open, and something snags in the hole, to me is less than the statistical chances of needing the speed of the skyhook and/or the harness shifting and making the handles hard to use and/or being injured and not able to use the handle as quickly as needed - (and all the other reasons a RSL can be useful.)

There are no documented numbers on this, just my own asking questions and looking at incident reports...

After thinking about it for a while, asking Bill Booth the question on Skydive Radio and on a private e-mail, and talking to mentors... I decided to keep the skyhook connected with both my wingsuit jumps and camera helmet jumps... I will rethink this if I ever attach things to the outside of the helmet.

(Bill Booth said something like, if you have a main/helmet entanglement you will have to clear the entanglement/remove the helmet before you cut away because you could be hanged/strangled - with or without a RSL. That leaves the freebag and reserve bridle as the remaining issue. His exact words can be found on the skydive radio interviews and I think in the thread I started about this same subject.)

[Newbie 0]

Quote

I have a skyhook, and I use it with my FF2 helmet with no ring sites and no external still cameras.

Here are the factors I considered when I made my decision, but I would say you should make your own decision after thinking about it for a while...

I have rubbed strings all over the helmet. Something would have to break/crack open to become a snag point... The statistical chances that the helmet breaks open, and something snags in the hole, to me is less than the statistical chances of needing the speed of the skyhook and/or the harness shifting and making the handles hard to use and/or being injured and not able to use the handle as quickly as needed - (and all the other reasons a RSL can be useful.)

There are no documented numbers on this, just my own asking questions and looking at incident reports...

After thinking about it for a while, asking Bill Booth the question on Skydive Radio and on a private e-mail, and talking to mentors... I decided to keep the skyhook connected with both my wingsuit jumps and camera helmet jumps... I will rethink this if I ever attach things to the outside of the helmet.

(Bill Booth said something like, if you have a main/helmet entanglement you will have to clear the entanglement/remove the helmet before you cut away because you could be hanged/strangled - with or without a RSL. That leaves the freebag and reserve bridle as the remaining issue. His exact words can be found on the skydive radio interviews and I think in the thread I started about this same subject.)

Thanks this was the sort of answer i was hoping for - someone in a near similar position to me, who had done the evaluation.

I've spent the last 48 hours thinking long and hard, and a few hours ago, i came to the exact same decision you made. I think we need to start reevaluating the term "camera flyer" and the related issues. I'm not saying the FF2 with a low profile lens and no stills is snag free, but, compared to a heavily loaded, multiple camera mounted, large lenses everywhere set up - well the 2 are distinguishable when i think about what it means to "fly camera" these days.

Anyway that's by the by - i am opting for one, and as others have said, can always reevaluate this as and when needed (like when i mount my stills etc etc).

Anyway thanks very much for your thoughts - although i'd made my decision, it is nice to have it confirmed by someone else who was in a similar position and did their homework before making the decision.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[billvon 2,400]

>First IMHO the most dangerous part of a RSL with camerahelmet
>is entaglement with the freebag and/or bridle. The skyhook greatly
>reduces the change of this.

I would add, though, that if you DO get an entanglement between the freebag/bridle (which is still quite possible with the Skyhook, although less likely in most situations) you will fall away the length of the bridle before you come to a stop at the end of the bridle (stopped by the "anchor" effect of the malfunctioning main.) Your head will take the shock load of the stop.

Whether or not that's better than having a bridle snag that _doesn't_ break your neck is debatable; if you're not going to be able to clear it in either case it doesn't much matter.

[Remster 24]

Quote

(those super low openings on reserve rides on URW site are incredible),

Are these the videos of the reserve that was packed slider down?

I just want to make surethat, if they are, you dont think these are typical openings.

Remster

[Newbie 0]

Quote

Quote

(those super low openings on reserve rides on URW site are incredible),

Are these the videos of the reserve that was packed slider down?

I just want to make surethat, if they are, you dont think these are typical openings.

Yeah they are slider down. I know that isn't typical, but it's still incredible to see
The intentional cutaways with slider up reserves obviously earlier in the vid take a little longer to open, but still open incredibly fast and also seem to produce great consistent strong positive opening characteristics, which is what swayed me.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Mathyaz 0]

Here is a intentional cutaway from a velocity 84. With a ff2 helmet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcilWotCsCs

[upndownshop 0]

As long as the rig has not hit the cutting stage of production you may add the SkyHook to the container.

DisclaimerThis may or may not push the production date back a bit.

J