Speeding up a Pilot 168.

[DougH 270]

I was hoping I could get some tips to try and speed up the opening on my Pilot 168. It has about 180 jumps on it, and the line appear to be in trim, but I haven't measured them.

It has been sniveling 800 feet easy. If I pitch at 3k I end up in the saddle just above 2k. I love how the openings feel, but lately I have been thinking that I would be happy to sacrifice some comfort for a shorter opening range.

I am propacking it... with the slider quartered evenly between the front, back, left, and right.

I don't push the nose into the pack job when I let go of it with my knees. I have tried actually exposing the nose a little more without much luck.

It is a tight fit in its bag, so I have to roll tail a good deal to help keep it under control. It opens on heading every time, unless I struggle a little with bagging it.

The pilot chute is the stock aerodyne one.

Thanks for any tips!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[BIGUN 1,106]

Check the collapsible pilot chute kill-line trim.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DougH 270]

That is a great idea, recently it has been hard arm more than it used to be. How exactly would I go about that?

There is some pilot chute hesitation on clear and pulls, but I allways attributed that to the shorter bridle on the Icon containers and being subterminal.


Also is it possible to upsize the pilot chute slightly? I know to large of a pilot chute leads to bag strip and line dump, but if the lines are properly retained it might speed up my deployment some.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[MrBrant 0]

one thing I found on my 188, is that the openings sped up a little bit if you flake the inside of the canopy as you're PRO packing it. (as opposed to just clearing the stabs, and wrapping the tail)

[BIGUN 1,106]

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That is a great idea, recently it has been hard arm more than it used to be. How exactly would I go about that?

Local Rigger

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There is some pilot chute hesitation on clear and pulls, but I allways attributed that to the shorter bridle on the Icon containers and being subterminal.

That's not P/C hesistation, you're correct - that's usually the case cause you're subterminal.

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Also is it possible to upsize the pilot chute slightly? I know to large of a pilot chute leads to bag strip and line dump, but if the lines are properly retained it might speed up my deployment some.

Local Rigger discussion - Aerodyne verification.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DougH 270]

I put a lot of effort into flaking so don't think that is the source of the slow openings. If anything I am over packing it.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[jheadley 0]

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That is a great idea, recently it has been hard arm more than it used to be. How exactly would I go about that?

There is some pilot chute hesitation on clear and pulls, but I allways attributed that to the shorter bridle on the Icon containers and being subterminal.


Also is it possible to upsize the pilot chute slightly? I know to large of a pilot chute leads to bag strip and line dump, but if the lines are properly retained it might speed up my deployment some.

here is a great post by Bill Booth about how to tell if your pilot chute is in good shape and correctly made. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=132976;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

I believe the size of the pilot chute will affect snatch force, but will not change the length of the snivel.

[DJL 232]

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so I have to roll tail a good deal to help keep it under control.

[Whistle sound] Try just one or two rolls and call me in the morning.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DougH 270]

I will try that this weekend. This may seem like a stupid question, but how do you keep your rolls from coming undone if there is only one or two. When I don't roll the tail much it tends to come undone especially where it is wrapped around the slider.

??

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[MrBrant 0]

you don't

edited to add: I agree. Only only do 2-3 loose rolls.

[DJL 232]

I make maybe just one or two rolls and then I hold on to the rolls and nose together as I lay it down. I continue to hold it together as I follow it down with my body and lie on top of it to get the air out.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Elisha 1]

Replace it with a Sabre1-170....sans pocket slider. No more slow openings!

[sirenoremac 0]

from my experience with two vicious opening canopies, I believe, personally, that the two biggest factors when I'm packing to slow down an opening are rolling the tail tightly and pulling the slider in front of the nose more. So, to speed up an opening I would suggest a loose tail roll, and quartering the slider a bit more tailward. Just my personal experience reflected in the other direction. Remember, when you are trying to find a way to change an opening, only change one thing at a time. Try a looser tail roll one jump, if it doesnt help, on the next jump roll the tail your normal way, and try pulling the slider more tailward. Hopefully you will eventually through careful experimentation find the right combination of things to help you, but take it a step at a time.

[darkwing 4]

Having been a Pilot 168 owner I agree with the roll tail less and put slider a little more tailward. If all else fails you might consider a smaller slider, but definitely talk with Aerodyne first.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[Yossarian 0]

the 188 i jump used to open really slowly within its first 100-150 jumps but now (its got about 170+) i find i have to roll the tail a little more to slow them down a bit. ive only recently started packing so i take alot of time in flaking the inside, the only time i rushed it i got one set of twists and a sharp opening on a hop'n'pop

[evh 22]

I also jump a Pilot 168. Iit has about 200 jumps, and 800 ft openings are normal, at terminal at least. Clear & pulls use up less height but more time.

Most of those 800 ft are snivel. When I want it to open quicker, I grab my rear risers and yank them, this almost instantly ends the snivvel.

Just make sure you pull the risers symmetrically, or you might spin it into a twist.

[nathaniel 0]

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Try just one or two rolls and call me in the morning.

I've got a pilot 120 that used to open like you describe yours. I fly a wingsuit pretty much all the time, and pretty much all of the openings were like how you describe your hop & pops.

I switched to a larger PC, ZP instead of F111, and I stopped rolling the tail. I'll give the tail one or two turns, just enough to set it down, and the tail nearly comes apart again as I stuff it in the dbag. Now even on a slow (like 60mph slow) deployment it opens very promptly.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[tbrown 26]

Most of those 800 ft are snivel. When I want it to open quicker, I grab my rear risers and yank them, this almost instantly ends the snivel.

[kaerodyne 0]

DougH

Don't forget to get in-touch

[DontPanic 0]

I was reading this post last week with great interest, since I have about the same issue with my Pilot 188.

I began to try a few of the things I read here this weekend, so I thought I'd post my results.

I wasn't trying to make any big changes, so I tried pulling the slider back some (but still leaving it well quartered), and instead of rolling the tail all the way down until I feel the pack, I backed off a few rolls, but still rolled the tail about 7 or 8 times. I never do anything with the nose, and kept that the same.

With these changes, I couldn't notice any difference in my openings. Still snivelling about 600-800 ft.

I'm not sure if a bigger pilot chute would help in my case, since my impression is that the pilot chute is doing it's job fairly well, but when I look up during deployment, my canopy sits there in a nice, orderly ball with the slider all the way to the top until I slow down enough for the slider to come down. As some people have noted, I can shake my risers to encourage the slider to come down.

[sirenoremac 0]

my point about tail-rolling was to NOT do it 7 or 8 times. just loosely roll it to keep control of your pack job. like, roll it once. as for the slider, I don't know if you understand what I mean. instead of pulling the part of the slider closest to your body CLOSER to your body, pull the part farthest from your body, FARTHER fom your body. sabe? from the way you said "pull the slider back" it made me think that you may have misunderstood. peace.

[DontPanic 0]

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my point about tail-rolling was to NOT do it 7 or 8 times. just loosely roll it to keep control of your pack job. like, roll it once.

I hope I didn't confuse too many people. I just wanted to say my observations from the weekend basically are in confirmation with what you are saying: Even 7 or 8 times is to much to make a difference in speeding up the opening. But I didn't want to make too many drastic changes all at once, so I tried 7 or 8 rolls.

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instead of pulling the part of the slider closest to your body CLOSER to your body, pull the part farthest from your body, FARTHER fom your body.

Again, sorry to be unclear. I was pulling the slider away from my body, towards the tail.

[droquette 0]

I also have a pilot 188 and have average openings of 800-1000' which have scared teh crap out of me whn i pull low.. so much so that i rarely will pull below 3k-2.5k...
I am going to try some of the solutions discussed here.
I have the largest pilot chute available (from what Aerodyne told me) as well as an 11' bridle since i jump WS quite often. I have problems with my pilot chute getting uncocked and usually will cock it 3 times throughout my packing process to ensure that it is fully cocked.
My openings are pretty much all on heading...
I personally love it when the canopy slams open because its pure relief.. I hada jump this weekend that felt like it took a good 3-4 sec before i even felt the snivel start.

Any more tips are greatly appreciated.

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[recovercrachead 0]

Take a knife and put a whole in the slider like Scotty C.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[droquette 0]

I sometimes try to not quarter the slider completely with the logic that it will come down faster.. does that make any sense?

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733