Round reserves still?

[DSE 3]

This morning at Perris, there was an older man that had a mal, and chopped. His reserve was a round, something I've never seen before. It looked like pictures of a tri-round I've seen in some books. He landed reasonably well in the gravel at the north end of the landing area; tried to stick it instead of PLF, but he was wearing shorts...but fell to the ground.
Either way, I guess I wasn't aware that folks are still using rounds. Is this common? Made for an interesting photo, anyway. Just wishing I'd had a longer focal length lens.

[councilman24 36]

Almost all pilot emergency rigs are rounds. Paratrooper mains and reserves are round, for the moment. My only reserve landings have been rounds (granted 1985 and before). I know of at least two DZ's who still use them for their student rigs. And I jumped a round two years ago and put it in the pea gravel.

Round reserves are still a viable, if not common option. Some crew dogs used to keep rounds (and some still do?) in the theory that if they have to deploy into a bunch of junk they are more likely to inflate cleanly, even if the lines are tangled or uneven.

No, they aren't common in sport rigs. In 1980's when Mike Mayo was rigger for the golden knights he was trying to get everyone to change to squares. The style guys were last because they wanted to keep their chest mount reserves and you can't put a square in a chest mount routinely. Quoting Mike, "If you open a round reserve your still in an emergency situation." He ment in terms of not knowing where or being able to land where you want.

When round reserves were still prevalent we had to remind people to spot for their reserves. As most people changed to squares we used to ask if there were any round reserves on the load. If so they either got an exit position with a better spot or we paid more attention to the spot.

After I busted up a leg in 1987 I put on some weight and didn't have a round I wanted to jump. But I missed it. Finally bought a Phantom 28 for a few bucks, put it on main 3 ring risers and put it in my regular rig in a bag with a throw out PC. (Not how most round reserves are packed.) If I weighed less I'd do it regularly. But I put it in the 30' pea pit from 6000' and 1/2 mile out.

There are a couple of sport jumper groups and military reunion types that routinely jump rounds for fun.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[wmw999 2,146]

Something to consider about round reserves (if the thought of a round doesn't scare the bejeezus out of you). With a round, you don't have to worry about your freebag and pilot chute. Which means that all of your efforts are focused on finding a safe spot to land in, and then landing there. Somehow that's kind of an attractive thought.

It's definitely steerable enough to find a safe landing spot under nearly any circumstances. When everyone had them, reserve rides were not known for more likely injuries, and people didn't routinely land them in trees or on buildings. In fact, you can probably hit a smaller clear spot, because of the very low forward speed.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Reginald 0]

Quote

But I put it in the 30' pea pit from 6000' and 1/2 mile out.

Show off!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[fcajump 153]

Hey... is that Phantom 28 a lopo (3-5)?
I've been using an SE 26lp for intentional cutaways, but the decent is too fast (for me) to land.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[ryoder 1,397]

Quote

n fact, you can probably hit a smaller clear spot, because of the very low forward speed.

Unless the winds are 10-20 mph.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,397]

Quote

It looked like pictures of a tri-round I've seen in some books.

"tri-round"? Are you talking about the Pioneer Tri-Conical? If so...EEEK!!!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DSE 3]

Someone this morning told me it was a Pioneer Tri-conical, yes.
He was way out north west of the hangar area, but was able to steer it in to the east side of the runway. Never been under a round, but it sure looked like he had it under control.

[ryoder 1,397]

Quote

Someone this morning told me it was a Pioneer Tri-conical, yes.
He was way out north west of the hangar area, but was able to steer it in to the east side of the runway. Never been under a round, but it sure looked like he had it under control.

The Tri-Con was designed to maximumize glide. It had gores tailored to lower the apex as much as possible, in order to reduce the frontal profile. This reputedly had a side effect: It increased the probability that the apex could slip out under the skirt during the momentary inversion during the last stage of deployment. In other words they were infamous for malfunctioning. I had a personal acquaintance who rode a spinning malfunctioned Tri-Con into the ground. Luckily he got away with only a broken arm and broken tailbone.

That said, I also knew a guy who built a custom main container on a production harness which distributed the bulk of the canopy over his entire back, making it extremely thin. He put a Tri-Con in it and wore a front-mounted poptop reserve with it. He had only a handful of jumps on it at the time I saw it, so I don't know how many jumps he put on it, nor how reliable it was.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

Never been under a round, but it sure looked like he had it under control.

Its like being connected to a balloon. You can stear it really slowly. I had 9 jumps, but landing was totally unpredictable: from tip-toe to hard...

I had rides on PZ-81(reserve). That is a triangular.

[councilman24 36]

No, pure relief. I was not sure I was going to walk away from the landing considering I weigh 215 naked. My PLF's are pretty good but it would have been hard. In the pea pit it was a piece of cake.

It's not that hard to be accurate with a round. They used a 10cm disk for accuracy during the round days. Only went to 5 with ramairs. All my T-10 student jumps were area accurate, landing within maybe 150' diam. area. And no radios. Most students aren't a lot better than that with ram airs. But we (or the jumpmasters) had to know how to spot, we learned to spot moving up in altitude slowly on static line progression, and you started you landing approach on opening. Oh, and paid attention to the wind drift indicator.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

Phantoms, Pioneer K series, Security aero conicals, FFE Preserves are 0-3 cu. ft fabric. Other than C-9 and T-10 student jumps I have two landings on lopo's and one on a Phantom 24' in the old days. (But the only reserves I've landed.) I almost stood up the phantom 24 but when to one knee. But only weighed 170 then.

At 215 and probably 240 suspended I couldn't have stood up th Phantom 28 but could would have walked away with a good PLF. The peas made it easy.

Find an old Security pilot rig. They are no longer airworthy and a lot had the SAC replaced with a Phantom during the acid mesh days. But finding a 28 took me awhile. I used a lopo of intentional cutaways also when I weighed less. Always wanted to have something landable if I decided not to do the cutaway. I haven't do one in a long while but now I'd use a ramair.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

I decided to buy a ram air main when we had a long spot on a beech load and I watched all the other jumpers with ram airs fly back to the landing area. Myself under a Paracommander and another guy under a piglet landed in a cemetary between all the head stones and trees. Not so easy with a ram air.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[skydiverek 56]

Quote

With a round, you don't have to worry about your freebag and pilot chute.

You are gonna worry about it when you have a reserve horseshoe.

[wmw999 2,146]

Quote

You are gonna worry about it when you have a reserve horseshoe.

True dat. Of course, the chance of having a main horseshoe is way greater, and we don't see a lot of those.

Shit happens sometimes. You maximize the good that's important to you, and minimize the bad that's important to you. I've never known someone who had a reserve horseshoe, and I know several people (myself included) who have lost freebags, with the consequent $200 or so cost. Doesn't sound like much money "as compared with your life," but as compared against a very neglible risk it kind of does.

That said, my reserve is square.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kkeenan 13]

Quote

... Not so easy with a ram air.

But then again, not so necessary.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[fcajump 153]

Quote

know how to spot...
...and paid attention to the wind drift indicator...

To what?....
The what...?

Now its all we can do to get them to look out the door before exit. I mean... if they're looking out the door, how will they know when to exit... the Green Light is on the INSIDE.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[fcajump 153]

Quote

I decided to buy a ram air main when we had a long spot on a beech load and I watched all the other jumpers with ram airs fly back to the landing area. Myself under a Paracommander and another guy under a piglet landed in a cemetary between all the head stones and trees. Not so easy with a ram air.

My decision was made at ~500' flying down wind into a baseball diamond under my first reserve ride (square), a round would have left me hanging in the middle of the woods. At the time, the order form was in my gear bag (not filled out) and I was trying to decide round or square...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[councilman24 36]

Yeah I know. I am glad that I got started at the end of the round era and did static line progression. It might have taken more jumps for me to get to the same basic skills but I learned to spot, I'm not concerned getting out at 2000', I can tell how far I'm going to get with either a main or a reserve, I LIKE packing round pilot rigs, I know why toggles are called toggles (because they used to be wooden "toggles"), I know how to do a good PLF (saved me many times), and probably a lot of other things.

I might be too old to bother learning how to swoop handkerchefs, I've been falling on my belly so long I can't hardly even start to free fly (haven't tried very hard), but I'll take the trade off.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[bch7773 0]

Quote

Something to consider about round reserves (if the thought of a round doesn't scare the bejeezus out of you). With a round, you don't have to worry about your freebag and pilot chute. Which means that all of your efforts are focused on finding a safe spot to land in, and then landing there. Somehow that's kind of an attractive thought.

you still have to watch where your main goes though.

theres a DZ that does S/L progression that uses round reserves, and claims to do it for safety reasons. They actually have a page explaining why round reserves are better. maybe someone could dig that up.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Amazon 7]

I still have a bunch of rigs with round reserves.. BUT... they are reserved for water jumps only...
3 Wonderhogs with 26' LO-PO and a Centarus with a Phantom 24'.
I also have a couple chest mount warts.. the Stylemaster rig has a 26' LO-PO in it.. and the old 3 pin North American rig with the ParaCommander has a wonderfull 24' flat circular T-7 chest mount that goes with it.,... that would be a REAL PAIN to land.
There was one very good reason for learning to spot in the old days.. especially if you had a round reserve.... you spotted for the reserve. NOW when I do a water jump... I also spot for the reserve... just in case that old stuff functions and I have to make an even bigger splash with the reserve

I had 3 reserve rides on round belly warts.....and two round reserve rides on piggy back rigs....I am trying really hard not to have to jump one again.

[ripcord4 0]

Actually, you never really needed to cutaway from a round canopy. Most of the malfunctions were quite stable and still provided a lot of lift. That's why most round reserves never had a pilot chute in them.

[wmw999 2,146]

That depends on the era. By the late 70's, the vast majority of reserves (particularly the piggybacks ) had pilot chutes, and I would not have been interested in landing a couple of the malfunctions that I had on rounds, or launching a reserve into them given the spin.

But they were the higher-performance rounds.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[riggerrob 558]

That's why most round reserves never had a pilot chute in them.

[SethInMI 146]

Way back in 2002, the DZ where I was a student had student gear with round reserves and FXC AADs, as did the larger rental gear. It was probably my 30th jump before I jumped a square reserve with a Cypres.

I still remember the 1st jump class training: "If you have an AAD fire two out, the round will win. Wait till the main dives, then pull the silver handle (SOS gear) and don't flare the reserve on landing"

I saw one round reserve ride under student gear when an FXC misfired on a backloop at 8-10k up.

There are probably other small DZs with old gear out there, that one shutdown earlier this year, still with the same student gear.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".