skymama 35 #1 April 20, 2007 Anyone know much about scoliosis? My daughter (age 18) just got diagnosed with it. They said she has it in 3 places. This was just a preliminary reading that her chiropractor got over the phone from the person who read the x-ray, the doc won't see the films until Monday. I'm surprised because every time Alix had her yearly physical with her pediatrician, he always did the bend-over test to look at her spine and didn't see anything. I hate getting news like this on a Friday, now I'm going to worry all weekend! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #2 April 20, 2007 She's finished growing so theres not much they can do on the preventative side. I have a mild case of it. Wore a back brace for three years when I was in middle school. Luckily only had to wear it outside of school hours, but I had to quit dance and that pissed me off. Now I see a wellness chiropractor on a regular basis and I have seen dramatic changes in the health of my spine since I started with him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #3 April 20, 2007 How'd she get to a chiro in the first place? Make sure the films were read by a radiologist, not a chiropractor claiming to be one. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #4 April 20, 2007 I was diagnosed with it at age 12. I was given a piece of paper with back excercises and I did them every day. My spine looks like the letter S. Saw a chiropractor a couple times a few years ago for traction. No problems since. Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #5 April 20, 2007 God you're such a mom! Stop worrying!!!! She's too old now to do much of anything about it. Is she in pain at all? I also agree with a previous comment here...don't trust just a chiropracter....get a specialist to look at her spine. and tell I her I said "hey punk"!and what the hell is "the bend over test"??? THAT sounds interesting.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #6 April 20, 2007 I have it. About a 4 Degree curvature lumbar area. It doesn't mean anything unless it's a serious curvature. Most are asymptmatic. One of my sailors has much more curvature in his spine and was allowed in the Navy. You need to consult with a M.D. who specialized in this. A chiropractor is not the person to deal with this. This is in the ream of real medicine, not the Aches and Pains alternative stuff. Edited to add. . . If it hasn't been picked up by her pediatrician by now, there more than likely isn't enough curvature to ever worry about it; especially if she passed the bend-over tests. The docs can see my slight curvature when I do that test and I have never had any back problems or such ever. I'm in my mid thirties and run on a daily basis and have put my back in a good amount of stress over time. No problems. Your daughter is in a better off "condition" than I had when I was 18._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #7 April 20, 2007 My childhood doctor missed mine for years...it wasn't until 5th grade that a school nurse caught it during a physical as I was trying out for the football team. This pissed me off as I was never allowed to play football again in any school. I never did the brace bit because mine is pretty bad and they wanted to put me in something called "the milwaukee torture/brace" or put a bar in my back....both things would have stopped me from being a kid for about 5-6 years (this is all there was in the early 80s). I slightly regret it now with the amount of pain I am in on a daily basis. With Scoliosis what matters is the degree of the curvature and if any other bone issues have come up from this. This will be a factor in the possibility of pain or a number of other issues. Most people never notice mine unless they really look. They can see that my shoulders are not even, nor are my knees, hips, feet, arms. BUT don't panic. If hers is just showing up now it most likely isn't that severe....and severe instances (like mine) is where the real issues come in. However, she should go see a specialist and get checked out right away to make sure there are no possible complications. An MRI may be in order to make sure she doesn't have Spina Bifida Occulta which is a VERY common thing that tends to cause a curve in your spine....even after 15 years of xrays they never noticed that on me until I had a lower back MRI. Once again, if she made it this far without many issues, then she should be fine. But don't let her go without talking to a doctor. I let mine go and it got worse. I have some rather painful medical issues due to mine now and it has taken me out of skydiving due to the level of pain I have in my back every day along with loss of feeling in my legs and a few other issues._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #8 April 20, 2007 Don't worry about it. At her age, it only matters if it has a functional effect. So, if she didn't know she had it (no pain, no loss of mobility), it's just words. Most doctors can diagnose you with a dozen things you don't know you have, and that won't change your quality of life at all (unless you worry about them). Oh, and like someone else said, get a different doctor to read the films and give you a diagnosis, if you're worried about it. And try to make it a doctor who has no incentive to tell you she needs something (in other words, someone like a spine surgeon or a physiatrist, who has spinal training but who won't get a bunch of your money for follow up visits on the scoliosis) Your chiropractor may just be fishing for more patient visits.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #9 April 20, 2007 To answer everyone... She was going to the chiropractor because of the back pain. She's complained about it for a couple of years. You also have to understand that she's a chronic complainer about everything that ever bothers her, so we have the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome with her. She also slouches, like many teenagers do, carries a heavy backpack, wears flip-flops which offer no support, slumps in the computer chair, stands for hours at work, doesn't strengthen her core muscles, etc...all that made us just think it was due to her lifestyle. We do trust the Chiropractor, she's a family friend. She's also treated 3 members of my family and has never tried to extend our visits. She wanted the x-rays done because the treatments she was doing on Alix wasn't helping as they should have been. My ex and I have already decided that as soon as we get the x-rays we are bringing them to her pediatrician to look at and help us decide which is the best treatment. Also, we might be better off going to a specialist because of insurance reasons anyway. Thanks for all your input. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
froglady 0 #10 April 20, 2007 For me it's been a matter of keeping fit and as I've gotten older taking up yoga to keep the spine moving and back/core muscles healthy. Age 12 doc said "keep the weight off and stay as flexiable as possible so you don't end up with a hunchback at 50" was enough motivation for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilDevil 2 #11 April 21, 2007 Quote Anyone know much about scoliosis? My daughter (age 18) just got diagnosed with it. They said she has it in 3 places. This was just a preliminary reading that her chiropractor got over the phone from the person who read the x-ray, the doc won't see the films until Monday. I'm surprised because every time Alix had her yearly physical with her pediatrician, he always did the bend-over test to look at her spine and didn't see anything. I hate getting news like this on a Friday, now I'm going to worry all weekend! Its more common than you think, do not let a Chiro near her ! exercise to build up muscle will help.``````````````````````````````````` " Cant keep a good woman down " Angels have wings, but devils can fly ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #12 April 21, 2007 Quote God you're such a mom! Stop worrying!!!! She's too old now to do much of anything about it. .... Not true at all, exercise and Yoga can do wonders for correcting and inccorect spinal curvatureYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #13 April 21, 2007 QuoteDon't worry about it. Did she not say that her daughter was having pain? If pain is indicated then perhaps worry is valid. Oh, and like someone else said, get a different doctor to read the films and give you a diagnosis, if you're worried about it. And try to make it a doctor who has no incentive to tell you she needs something (in other words, someone like a spine surgeon or a physiatrist, who has spinal training but who won't get a bunch of your money for follow up visits on the scoliosis) Your chiropractor may just be fishing for more patient visits. Most doctors pratic with ethics and will not be "fishing" with follow up visits. having said that why would a spine surgeon not have an incentive? and are you saying physical therapist with spine training? if so they are not doctors, can't give a diagonsis they can only make recomendations and have to take orders from a doctor. many people will say negative things about chriopratic healing most of that is misinformed information based on hearsay and rumors. Chriopractors are real doctors. they have years of medical training and deal with spinal related healing. Yes chriopratic healing takes time, it is non invasive where surgery is. if you have a good doctor, MD or DC one will work with the other and outline whats best for you. My Md would send me to my DC if he felt that was in my best care and like wise for my DC. he has refered me back to my MD on many issues. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #14 April 21, 2007 QuoteMost doctors pratice with ethics and will not be "fishing" with follow up visits. There is a minority in any profession (including medicine) who are primarily motivated by profit, and bend their ethics to a greater or lesser extent for that reason. Quotehaving said that why would a spine surgeon not have an incentive? I don't think they'd have as much of a profit incentive, because it's doubtful Scoliosis will require spinal surgery, and any spine surgeon isn't going to have a lot of financial incentive to have you back into their clinic for repeated non-surgical visits. Most of their income will probably come from the operating room, so if they really think you need non-surgical help, they're likely to refer you out to another doctor, physical therapist, or whatever. Quoteand are you saying physical therapist with spine training? if so they are not doctors, can't give a diagonsis they can only make recomendations and have to take orders from a doctor. No. A Physiatrist is a licensed and board certified physician specializing in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. Not a physical therapist. More information about Physiatry can be found here. In general, Physiatrists are M.D.'s, although some are D.O.'s. For example, in Idaho (where I live), there are 18 practicing Physiatrists, of whom 17 are M.D.'s and 1 is a D.O. QuoteChriopractors are real doctors. they have years of medical training and deal with spinal related healing. The minimum standards for licensing as a chiropractor are: (a) 90 units of undergraduate education (approximately 3 years) (b) 3 years of chiropractic school That's a total of 6 years of post high school education. College graduation is not required, and only 3 years of post-college education are required. Compare this with the educational requirements for the two types of physicians discussed above (Spine Surgeons and Physiatrists): Physiatrists: (a) 4 years of college (b) 4 years of medical school (c) 1 year of internship (d) 3 years of residency Total of 12 years of post high school education. College graduation is required, as is 8 years of post-college education. Spine Surgeons: (a) 4 years of college (b) 4 years of medical school (c) 5 years of orthopedic surgery or neurosurgery residency (d) 1 year of spine surgery fellowship (most fellowships are actually 2 years) Total of 14 years of post high school education. College graduation is required, as is 10 years of post-college education. While I will not speculate on your definition of "real doctor," in my view, the "years of medical training" required of either a physiatrist or a spine surgeon (roughly twice that of a chiropractor) mean that I'm more likely to trust them in diagnosing or recommending treatment for disorders of the spine.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #15 April 21, 2007 I was diagnosed with scoliosis when I was about 16 or 17. My mom (a nurse) threatened to put me in a brace, but I refused to even consider it. Forward 8 years. I'm back in school for physical therapy. One class had us learning how to measure joints (range of motion, limb length, etc). My classmate was measuring my leg length. She looked up and remarked, "Did you know you have one leg longer than the other?". Put a small book under my shorter leg, and walla! The scoliosis vanished. Never had any back problems associated with it, but if I'm not paying attention you can see my belt-line is not completely straight. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #16 April 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteDon't worry about it. and are you saying physical therapist with spine training? if so they are not doctors, can't give a diagonsis they can only make recomendations and have to take orders from a doctor. many people will say negative things about chriopratic healing most of that is misinformed information No, PT's are not doctors, but it is within their scope of practice to make treatment diagnosis and they DO NOT take orders from a doctor. In fact, in the state of Colorado, you don't even need a referral from a doctor to go to a PT. I'm not bashing chiros, there's quacks in every specialty, but please don't spread misinformation about PT's in your quest to defend them. Skymama, you are sensible enough to take the information you have and seek a qualified 2nd opinion, or two. Your daughter's back pain may indeed be from lack of core strength, leg-length discrepency, all sorts of things. Bottom line, we can all give our opinions, but we're not the specialists. Good luck and I hope she feels better soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #17 April 21, 2007 Quotesomeone like a spine surgeon or a physiatrist, who has spinal training Quoteand are you saying physical therapist with spine training? if so they are not doctors, You may want to know that a physiatrist is an M.D. with specialty training in rehabilitation. jdthomas. Your presumption is not correct. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #18 April 21, 2007 Quote*** You may want to know that a physiatrist is an M.D. with specialty training in rehabilitation. jdthomas. Your presumption is not correct. ltdiver Tom Already elucidated that, quite extensivelyYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #19 April 21, 2007 Quote Quote *** You may want to know that a physiatrist is an M.D. with specialty training in rehabilitation. jdthomas. Your presumption is not correct. ltdiver Tom Already elucidated that, quite extensively Cool. Scrolled up and saw that. Thanks. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Superman32 0 #20 April 21, 2007 Quote Chriopractors are real doctors. they have years of medical training and deal with spinal related healing. My med school class started with about 7 or 8 chiros -- 2 are still with us(really, really smart guys). A couple of the others failed anatomySorry for the hate, but I'm drunk. I'm on VACATION!!! Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spdoat 0 #21 April 21, 2007 This thread has been quite interesting to follow. Your facts are interesting TomAiello but a little short of the full truth either. I am getting ready to start chiropractic school and in many states a bachelors degree is required to begin and most chiropractic programs are 4 years in length just like all MD programs. There are a few 3 year accelerated options. If you want to start short siding facts, there are many MD programs that are 6 years out of high school to become a doctor so please include all the facts of the minimums and maximum requirements for board certifications of both professions if your trying to prove creditably to one and discredit chiropractic medicine. What I am really interested in on this thread, is which of you were doctors of anything again to be making these recommendations, assumptions, and accusations? I hope that your daughter finds some healing that is appropriate for her by whatever means that is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #22 April 21, 2007 There are also Osteopathic physicians (DOs) whose education is very similar to that MDs, but they tend to have more training in musculoskeletal problems. As far as your daughter's scoliosis. The good thing is that smaller degrees of curvature found in older adolescents have a much smaller incidence or progression. Progression is more common in girls than boys though. Since she's 18 and the scoliosis was only discovered incidentally, I'd not be too concerned about it getting worse. For treatment, I (personally) would recommend physical therapy. Muscle strengthening (abdominal and back muscles) tends to help with back pain, and once she learns how to do specific exercises, continued treatment isn't needed--she can do it on her own. There are no treatments (other than bracing for more severe scoliosis in younger kids) that actually improve the curvature.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites squirrel 0 #23 April 21, 2007 Jenni, my wife, had sevear scollosis when she was young, not sure on the measurement degree, doctors recomended surgery, and she went with it to correct the lower spine. they went in and straightened the spine using fusions, no rods. her back worked out good, but they truamaed her pancreas (spelling?) and she went 3 months with no oral food, another story. anyway, she was told at the time that her upper curve would have to be corrected at some point, maybe around age 25 to 30. today, she is 32, and her upper spine hurts. she has developed a degenerative disc too. But, the pain is kept in check by her doing yoga 4 to 5 times a week, in a hot room in our house. she even go her teaching cert for Bikram yoga. there was a girl in her class with much worse condition, did yoga every day, and no more pain, and spine did actully straighted. moral...yoga, exerscise, and eat well. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sweetjava77 0 #24 April 21, 2007 I just found out after 26 years that I have scoliosis. They say its so minor that I currently have nothing to worry about, until I'm old. I do get occasional lower back pain and I sometimes sleep funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #25 April 21, 2007 We're seeing a chiropractor now, and my s/o has the same thing. Lots of back pain. The chiropractor (who also flies in our tunnel) told her he can correct up to 30% of her scoliosis, and that it's not 100% correctable. She even forgot to tell him that she was diagnosed with it when she was a teenager - he found it from looking at the X-rays, and she said "oh, yeah, I forgot about that". It didn't bother her too much when she was younger, but as she's gotten older, it's causing quite a bit of pain. What she always thought was a dislocated rib was really the scoliosis, according to the chiropractor. I know a lot more girls that have it than guys (or maybe guys don't want to admit it as much), but it does have a higher incidence among women, according to Wikipedia.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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ltdiver 3 #17 April 21, 2007 Quotesomeone like a spine surgeon or a physiatrist, who has spinal training Quoteand are you saying physical therapist with spine training? if so they are not doctors, You may want to know that a physiatrist is an M.D. with specialty training in rehabilitation. jdthomas. Your presumption is not correct. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #18 April 21, 2007 Quote*** You may want to know that a physiatrist is an M.D. with specialty training in rehabilitation. jdthomas. Your presumption is not correct. ltdiver Tom Already elucidated that, quite extensivelyYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #19 April 21, 2007 Quote Quote *** You may want to know that a physiatrist is an M.D. with specialty training in rehabilitation. jdthomas. Your presumption is not correct. ltdiver Tom Already elucidated that, quite extensively Cool. Scrolled up and saw that. Thanks. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #20 April 21, 2007 Quote Chriopractors are real doctors. they have years of medical training and deal with spinal related healing. My med school class started with about 7 or 8 chiros -- 2 are still with us(really, really smart guys). A couple of the others failed anatomySorry for the hate, but I'm drunk. I'm on VACATION!!! Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spdoat 0 #21 April 21, 2007 This thread has been quite interesting to follow. Your facts are interesting TomAiello but a little short of the full truth either. I am getting ready to start chiropractic school and in many states a bachelors degree is required to begin and most chiropractic programs are 4 years in length just like all MD programs. There are a few 3 year accelerated options. If you want to start short siding facts, there are many MD programs that are 6 years out of high school to become a doctor so please include all the facts of the minimums and maximum requirements for board certifications of both professions if your trying to prove creditably to one and discredit chiropractic medicine. What I am really interested in on this thread, is which of you were doctors of anything again to be making these recommendations, assumptions, and accusations? I hope that your daughter finds some healing that is appropriate for her by whatever means that is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #22 April 21, 2007 There are also Osteopathic physicians (DOs) whose education is very similar to that MDs, but they tend to have more training in musculoskeletal problems. As far as your daughter's scoliosis. The good thing is that smaller degrees of curvature found in older adolescents have a much smaller incidence or progression. Progression is more common in girls than boys though. Since she's 18 and the scoliosis was only discovered incidentally, I'd not be too concerned about it getting worse. For treatment, I (personally) would recommend physical therapy. Muscle strengthening (abdominal and back muscles) tends to help with back pain, and once she learns how to do specific exercises, continued treatment isn't needed--she can do it on her own. There are no treatments (other than bracing for more severe scoliosis in younger kids) that actually improve the curvature.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #23 April 21, 2007 Jenni, my wife, had sevear scollosis when she was young, not sure on the measurement degree, doctors recomended surgery, and she went with it to correct the lower spine. they went in and straightened the spine using fusions, no rods. her back worked out good, but they truamaed her pancreas (spelling?) and she went 3 months with no oral food, another story. anyway, she was told at the time that her upper curve would have to be corrected at some point, maybe around age 25 to 30. today, she is 32, and her upper spine hurts. she has developed a degenerative disc too. But, the pain is kept in check by her doing yoga 4 to 5 times a week, in a hot room in our house. she even go her teaching cert for Bikram yoga. there was a girl in her class with much worse condition, did yoga every day, and no more pain, and spine did actully straighted. moral...yoga, exerscise, and eat well. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetjava77 0 #24 April 21, 2007 I just found out after 26 years that I have scoliosis. They say its so minor that I currently have nothing to worry about, until I'm old. I do get occasional lower back pain and I sometimes sleep funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #25 April 21, 2007 We're seeing a chiropractor now, and my s/o has the same thing. Lots of back pain. The chiropractor (who also flies in our tunnel) told her he can correct up to 30% of her scoliosis, and that it's not 100% correctable. She even forgot to tell him that she was diagnosed with it when she was a teenager - he found it from looking at the X-rays, and she said "oh, yeah, I forgot about that". It didn't bother her too much when she was younger, but as she's gotten older, it's causing quite a bit of pain. What she always thought was a dislocated rib was really the scoliosis, according to the chiropractor. I know a lot more girls that have it than guys (or maybe guys don't want to admit it as much), but it does have a higher incidence among women, according to Wikipedia.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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