Cut out the middle man?

[GravityGirl 0]

Here is a thought for the day.

There are so many new/er up and coming jumpers that are in a rush to cut out the middle man when purchasing skydiving equipment.

I suppose the theory is that skydiving is like the real world and cutting out the middle man (or woman ;) will certainly get them the bigger, better deal.

My very biased view point is, "That is absolutely false."

In this industry, the only thing you are cutting out is an added layer for service and education.

As a dealer of most skydiving products, my price is the same, if not better than most manufacturers direct. And many manufacturers won't sell direct.

What myself and other dealers bring to the table is the next level of education and service.

When a student is dumped into "solo status", they no longer have the exclusive guidance from their instructors.

I read post, after post, after post about how confusing and conflicting new and used gear choices are. And they are right.

The simple solution is to sit down with your local gear dealer and get a full gear consultation. If your DZ or Club does not offer this servcie, there are several dealers on the web that offer gear consultations on the phone or web at no charge.

The better deal is getting better educated about the products you are shopping for.

Just my perspective.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[ChrisL 2]

As a gear "consumer" I'll second that sentiment enthusiastically.

I've made almost all my gear purchases through "the middle man" and
I've never been disappointed. Not only do the prices tend to be better,
but the service is WAY better.

I think the reason is that most dealers can offer you basically the same prices as each other so they get and try to keep customers through providing superior customer service.

I've dealt with several dealers over the years and in no instance did any question I had go unanswered, no matter how trivial they might have seemed. Additionally, most good dealers today are concerned about the safety of jumpers too and will take pains to educate people about what they
should be using at a given level of experience rather than just selling them anything they ask for no matter how ridiculous.

The manufacturers, while mostly cool, just dont provide that level of service to the "end user"
I dont really think they want to. Thats why they offer dealers much lower prices. They are encouraging jumpers to buy through dealers rather than pester them directly.

Also, when buying an entire rig, dealing with 3 or 4 manufacturers could be a giant pain in the ass.

A good dealer makes the process painless and easy.

Dealers get my vote

__

My mighty steed

[BigSky 2]

I couldn't agree more. And I think the same could be said about all purchases not just skydiving. Every body is so willing to cut out the middle man to save a few bucks, then everyone wonders why their local economy is so bad.

Not only do I think it is worth a few extra bucks to have good local customer service but also to support the local economy. For me I buy all my gear from my Drop Zone. Keeping the money local not only helps keep us in the air but it helps keep food on people you knows table! This is a win win win situation.

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[monkycndo 0]

I agree whole heartedly of going through a dealer. Bonnie helped me design my suit and new container offering suggestions I would have never thought of myself. Now I'm just waiting for delivery. Unfortunately, she can't do much in that regard.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I think the reason is that most dealers can offer you basically the same prices as each other so they get and try to keep customers through providing superior customer service.

One element that distinguished GG from the other potential dealers around here is that she has a web site and it lists prices. I'm not shopping purely on price - I value service - but I hate haggling with incomplete information, and in a scenario where quality of service could vary if I drive the price too low.

(It's probably also why I'm still renting in the bay area - who wants to pay 20-30% OVER asking price for a house?)

[johnny1488 1]

Having a dealer when something goes wrong is also invaluable. I used a crappy dealer once and almost got screwed. Our dealer stands behind everthing he does and everything he sells. Its nive to know you dont have to worry about those things.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[Beatnik 2]

I agree completely for most people going through a dealer is more beneficial than going through the manufacturer.

I am not going to name any names but I have had very bad experiences with some dealers and prefer to go to the manufacturer.

Quote

I suppose the theory is that skydiving is like the real world and cutting out the middle man (or woman ;) will certainly get them the bigger, better deal.

My very biased view point is, "That is absolutely false."

For me because of my job I receive several very large discounts with several manufacturers that is either the same price or better. For myself unless it is something small I find no point to go through a dealer.

Other than the few of us who get large discounts through the manufacturer it is best to stick with dealers.

[mjosparky 3]

This is just a guess but I would say that most newer jumpers in the market for gear have access to an experienced gear dealer.

What is gained for a face to face on any matter can’t be bought or sold. For the dealer it is being able to see the jumper and make educated recommendations on size, type and even options that would best suit the jumper. For the jumper it is being able to gage if the dealer is just selling shoes or trying to provide the best gear combination possible for that jumper.

Price is always a consideration when buying anything. But when buying something that will save your life EVERY time you use it, price should not be a major consideration.

Without the help and experience of an established dealer very few if any new jumpers are is a position to make sound choices on their own.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DSE 3]

Quote

This is just a guess but I would say that most newer jumpers in the market for gear have access to an experienced gear dealer.

I'm a very non-experienced jumper, but without naming names, I've written to four dealers in the past 10 days asking for information on canopies and pants, and not one dealer has responded. On the other hand, I sent email to Performance Designs and Freaknsuits and had a response within a couple of hours. So, while I'd like to deal with dealers, if they're not going to respond... Then they don't deserve my business, and won't get it.

I'd MUCH rather consistently deal with a reseller/vendor *if* I could establish a relationship in which I trusted their advice and input, and thought they weren't just after my bucks at any cost. Otherwise, I'm stuck doing research at the DZ, here, and other places on the web. When I have to do the research, get advice from friends, DZO, instructors, the web, and anywhere else, I'm gonna buy at the best price because I've done all the legwork and know exactly what I want.
In other words, just because dealers exist doesn't mean I'll go there. They've got to earn my business just like any other business that I deal with for personal or corporate purchases.

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

When a student is dumped into "solo status", they no longer have the exclusive guidance from their instructors.

My students do.
And they will always have the opportunity to ask me any questions they may have for the rest of their skydiving career.
I do know what you mean though Bon.
I have many people that order wingsuits direct, only to complain to me about things they dont like after they get the suit, how long it's taking to get it, how they didn't get something on the suit that they thought they ordered on it, or that the measurements they took themselves were wrong.

Dealers do supply service and educated information about products, and they should also hold accountability when the product is not what the customer ordered.


Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

In other words, just because dealers exist doesn't mean I'll go there. They've got to earn my business just like any other business that I deal with for personal or corporate purchases.

I suggest you go anywhere you wish to buy gear. But this is not "any other business" as I am sure you will find out.

It would be interesting to have you post again in maybe a year or 200 jumps and tell us how well you did on picking out “exactly what I want.”

If you re-read what I posted: “What is gained for a face to face on any matter can’t be bought or sold.” I said nothing about writing to a dealer.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DSE 3]

Quote

If you re-read what I posted: “What is gained for a face to face on any matter can’t be bought or sold.” I said nothing about writing to a dealer.

Unfortunately, there are no dealers where I live, other than the DZ, and they are exceptionally limited. I have good trust in the DZO, have known him and his wife for a long time, and face to face is indeed better. Sure, maybe after 200 jumps I'll change my opinion, but it's unlikely. I buy my scuba and motoX gear on the web too. I no longer have a dealer in my area to be face-to-face with.

I'm a reseller of sorts in my business. The *only* unique benefits we can offer our customers/clients are:
1. Experience based on a lifetime of product use
2. Trust
3. Good relationship and after-production services and information that may be used in future purchasing decisions.

Our competitors offer everything that we offer outside of the above aspects. So does the manufacturer.

This is true in just about any business.

[Brian425 0]

I am a big believer in supporting your local dealer. The simple fact is that Donna and Sonic at the Pro Shop just make life easier and better at the DZ. I recenly bought a Neptune. I checked the internet to read up on them and price them. I could hav "saved" $20 by buying it on the internet. That savings would have been eaten up by shipping costs and having to wait for it. The other thing Donna and Sonic provide is advice, friendship and guidance. If everyone hunted around the internet for the best price, they would lose these valuable benefits.

Service has value. Too often, people shop only on price. I think the Ranch would be much different without the Pro Shop and I am personally glad that they are there. You cannot get good advice on a canopy on the internet. You cannot get measured for a jumpsuit on the internet. The internet will not loan you an alitmeter or let you demo a helmet. It goes on and on.

Thanks to all the local shops for being there for us. And thanks to Donna and Sonic for taking such good care of us up at the Ranch.

Brian

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[tso-d_chris 0]

Quote

Here is a thought for the day.

There are so many new/er up and coming jumpers that are in a rush to cut out the middle man when purchasing skydiving equipment.

I suppose the theory is that skydiving is like the real world and cutting out the middle man (or woman ;) will certainly get them the bigger, better deal.

My very biased view point is, "That is absolutely false."

In this industry, the only thing you are cutting out is an added layer for service and education.

As a dealer of most skydiving products, my price is the same, if not better than most manufacturers direct. And many manufacturers won't sell direct.

What myself and other dealers bring to the table is the next level of education and service.

When a student is dumped into "solo status", they no longer have the exclusive guidance from their instructors.

I read post, after post, after post about how confusing and conflicting new and used gear choices are. And they are right.

The simple solution is to sit down with your local gear dealer and get a full gear consultation. If your DZ or Club does not offer this servcie, there are several dealers on the web that offer gear consultations on the phone or web at no charge.

The better deal is getting better educated about the products you are shopping for.

Just my perspective.

I've seen people spend up to $1000 more on a complete rig by going direct to manufacturers, or even straight to the gear shop on their DZ, instead of taking the time to shop around a little bit.

Shopping around can make a HUGE difference in price, and as you pointed out, service is nearly always better from a dealer.

For Great Deals on Gear

[riggerrob 558]

Remember that most local dealers assemble and pack new rigs for "free."
This also makes them responsible for ensuring that all components are compatible.
In comparison, most riggers charge $90 to $100 to assemble and pack components bought somewhere else.

[lauras 0]

Quote

Remember that most local dealers assemble and pack new rigs for "free."
This also makes them responsible for ensuring that all components are compatible.
In comparison, most riggers charge $90 to $100 to assemble and pack components bought somewhere else.

Wha??? I don't know of a single dealer that will do a full assemble & pack for free... unless they're "building" that cost in somewhere else on the invoice.

[bigway 4]

Quote

Remember that most local dealers assemble and pack new rigs for "free."
This also makes them responsible for ensuring that all components are compatible.
In comparison, most riggers charge $90 to $100 to assemble and pack components bought somewhere else.

Wish that was the case over here, it costs £60 to get that done here.


I think dealers are a huge part of skydiving. If it was not for dealers you would never know the deals, you would only know what the manufacturer is telling you and the dealer has many manufacturers on their books.

A dealer also has the ability to offer gear at cheap prices and discounts when buying a combination of gear. A manufacturer does not.

The more a dealer sells the more a dealer can also discount. A dealer is always there and can treat you like a one on one customer, while a manufacturer cand do the same but really you are the same person to them buying the same product to them as every other customer that phones up, i am not saying their service will be that way but you are still only buying the one or maybe few products that they sell .
A dealer is very educated in what they are selling, 1 from trial and error and 2 from learning so much about what it is they choose to stock

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[ChrisL 2]

Quote

Remember that most local dealers assemble and pack new rigs for "free."
.

This has not been my experience.

I've bought 2 completely brand new rigs in the last 3 years and paid a fee for the assembly in both instances.

I didnt feel bad though. It was a modest fee for a service rendered and I felt good about it. I knew they would do it right.

__

My mighty steed

[AndyMan 7]

I hate the fact that I have to go through a dealer all the time, I always have better experiences when I can order straight from the manufacturer.

All my jumpsuits I've measured myself fit better than the ones my dealers have.

I know I get good advice when I get it from a variety of sources instead of just my local dealer, too. On more than a few occaisions I've seen local jumpers get bad advice from their dealer only to have to sell their gear and buy a second item after a short time.

I've gotten better prices when I order directly, and I get the gear quicker when it's shipped straight to me.

I think the nutshell is that someone buying near gear really has to do the research themselves, by going around to a variety of sources and figuring out which ones give good advice. Once they do that though, that takes away from the value of the dealer. The value of a dealer SHOULD be that they give good advice, but I've seen bad advice even from good dealers.

Personally, I'm very happy whenever I can bypass a dealer.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[bigway 4]

Hence why dealers are dealers, they by pass all the time.

There is a role for everybody in this sport. It is a sport that we love that has become an industry so we can continue the sport.
dealers are part of the equation.
If it was not for the dealers there would not be half as many sponsored events.

It is the dealers that organise all that sort of stuff from what i see in the uk and new zealand.

Maybe not in the states but in these two countries it is the dealers who organise the canopy courses and freefly camps from out of town instructors.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Cloudi 0]

Exactly.

Dealers do so much more than sell gear. They have educated themselves on each component. They offer advice (priceless, yet often ignored). They loan equipment to help jumpers decide what works best for them, often with no guarantee of a sale. They arrange gear demos (most, at no extra cost). They sponsor events.

I know for a fact the original poster, for example, spends money every year to provide reserve demos to her local dropzone for Safety Day. She may get some sales from it, but there is much more to it than that. She does it so people are more educated about the canopy they rarely, if ever, have to fly. This builds a jumper's confidence in their gear. That kind of thing goes way above and beyond the role of just a "dealer." There are several other dealers who make similar arrangements for their dropzone.

There may be some dealers who are all about the money, but, fortunately, they are rare and most of the ones I have met are more concerned with educating their customers so they make the right choice for themselves.

"Cut out the middle man" and you will be losing a very important and valuable resource who can provide un-biased advice (most dealers represent several manufacturers), not to mention great service when things aren't as you expected. Information, education, experience, and sincere concern for your well-being come along with that tiny profit the dealer makes from selling gear to you.

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.