Broke 0 #51 January 29, 2008 I hate how the news used the word tragedy. I think if people die doing something stupid, because their parents handed them an 80k car that is sad yes, but it is not a tragedy.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #52 January 29, 2008 It is a tragedy that our society has allowed this sort of behaviour to become acceptable and cool and fun to these kids. Tragedy that they couldn't find something more constructive to do. The $80,000 car had NOTHING to do with it. Could have been a $500 car. The fact that they had money had NOTHING to do with. Poor kids do things just as stupid, some would argue that they would do even dumber things. If I have the chance I will give a car to my kids too... does this make me an irresponsible parent. Might not be a $80,000 car. But it doesn't have to be worth $80,000 to be lethal. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #53 January 29, 2008 Depends on the car and the kid. I for one think in most cases it would make you irresponsible as most kids are not responsible enough to have a car like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #54 January 29, 2008 While I do see that this was a sad day for the freinds and fam of these 5 kids. I do want to point out that some folks have the same reaction when a skydiver goes in. "no sympathy, they were stupid for doing such things, what did they expect to happen, its their own fault etc."My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #55 January 29, 2008 If you are going to drive a car fast one should get the proper training. At least they were responsible enough to keep it off the roads, and didn't put an uninvolved motorist in danger. I don't think a 5oo dollar car would have been able to get up to 140 in one piece. A similiar incident happened here on LI recentlyDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #56 January 29, 2008 So do I sometimes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauraliscious 0 #57 January 29, 2008 Quote"no sympathy, they were stupid for doing such things, what did they expect to happen, its their own fault etc." Not that I am unsympathetic, but sometimes this is true. Not in every case, obviously, but sometimes. Whuffo's just don't tend to know the difference. Stupidity kills, especially at high speeds. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 200 #58 January 29, 2008 QuoteWhile I do see that this was a sad day for the freinds and fam of these 5 kids. I do want to point out that some folks have the same reaction when a skydiver goes in. "no sympathy, they were stupid for doing such things, what did they expect to happen, its their own fault etc." Most of the time those sentiments are all true for a whuffo. I have no problem with those types of statements because in the end they're correct. We know and accept the risks..these kids weren't even thinking about that. I still say you don't give a kid a car like that. My 17yo son drives an Escort. I don't think he's tempted to see just how fast that badboy is. Put him in the Vette or something like it every red-blooded american 18yo is going to think he's Jeff or Junior. I feel sorry for the parents. They have to live with this forever.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 640 #59 January 29, 2008 The press is reporting all the kids had multiple traffic infractions...some very recent. These kids weren't innocent so much as inexperienced.... Similar to handing the "just off of grounding after completing AFF" up jumper a swooping canopy the day after he gets advice on-line on how to go faster with said canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #60 January 29, 2008 QuoteMost of the time those sentiments are all true for a whuffo. I have no problem with those types of statements because in the end they're correct. We know and accept the risks..these kids weren't even thinking about that. I still say you don't give a kid a car like that. That's why we try to keep the new A-license off of the Velocity. Of course, we get the "...but, I have Mad Skillz, bro" or the ever-popular "I'm just too far out on The Edge for you to understand my Ober Cool style." Parents let kids drive these cars. The expectation is that they will drive like that and get away with it. I bought an old-school muscle car with a 383ci mag engine. I had access to a private 2-lane, 2 mile long road. I regularly went 120-140 on it. If an armadillo had run under a tire, it would have killed me. Sometimes, you get away with stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #61 January 29, 2008 Wow, I am glad to see everyone's responses. I was playing Dev advocate to see if people would stand by their comments if it was a skydiver who'd gone in in a similar situation. I.E. Too fast too low. I know its sad and painful when we lose friends especially in the sport but sometime I just sit there and let everyone else discuss it because the only thing I would be adding is not needed. Things like WTF were they thinking? Not every incident is unaviodable and those are the ones that are really sad because people just dont understnd WTF the person was thinking when the pulled some crazy stunt way too low etc.... I see that way differently than I see a plane crash.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillbo 11 #62 January 29, 2008 read this http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111454 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #63 January 29, 2008 Quote read this http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111454 I have no problem readin but make it a clicky won't you?CORRECTION: I DO have a problem readin. I have to be signed in in order to read your link. can you copy and paste in a pm?My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #64 January 29, 2008 Quote But what about the car? 2008, 80,000? Damn.... Bobbi 80k Is just a low end 7 series Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillbo 11 #65 January 29, 2008 Sorry about the clicky thang Not sure why you have to be signed in ? The gist of the link is that the driver was posting questions on an M5 board and a few people started trying to explain the risk of an unskilled driver having so much power .. Here is a quote that got the discussion started: "I'm not saying I care what you own, but its just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of IMO. Then again you could be making all of this up." The kids reply was : "I completley understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible..that is definetly understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others..and I hope you are not under the impression that I am the one to brag, I have never been that way and never will. Plus I will have pictures up asap with me in the pictures. I have no reason to lie buddy." then he was dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 640 #66 January 29, 2008 weird...I didn't have to... Anyway...it's a post to a BMC forum by the decedent, dated the 25th of this month...day before he died. here's the post: "AmericanM5 Junior Member, warming up (<31 posts) Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: United States View my 2008 M5 Space Gray Sales Feedback: (0) Rough shifts-M mode -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alright guys Im new here and I have a question....as I am driving in m mode with the car set in p500 sport and everything set to max, as I shift with the paddle shifters it sounds like the transmission is banging into gear,(like there is a thud that comes from the trunk when I upshift.....) could this be due to the way Im shifting or is this normal....and if so is there any trick to working the shift Let me say I am beginner when it comes to high performance cars as I am only 18 so take it easy on me. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #67 January 29, 2008 Quote ryoder, ACMESkydiver You both say was.... are you two NO longer underwriters? If not, was it the redtape that drove you out b/c of your "concious"My agent tells me basically the same thing... I have a 27yo daughter that just moved back in after Her divorce, and He suggested that She be part on my policy to get the "multiple car discount for my premium.... I say bullshit... Why should I care about that when IF She gets a DUI or a ticket for an accident(s), then it is MY RATE that goes uP not Hers!!!??? HELLO!!! Can either of you elaborate a weebit about this? I got out of insurance because I was a captive agent...an agent employed by and working solely for another agent -and there was no money in it. I made up to 5 times my salary in mortgage. Personally, I did not disagree with the policies particularly. I saw the claims come in, and by and large, many times it was junior taking mom and dad's Mercedes or whatever. There is by far more fraud committed by insureds than by insurers. Plenty of examples right here in these forums. Agents have little flexibility when it comes to policy. Put it this way; how could you guarantee that your daughter, who lives with you, would never drive your car? It isn't reasonable to think that if her car broke down, you wouldn't let her take yours to work...or take you to the ER...etc. If she gets behind the wheel a single time and hits someone, your insurance company is liable for all damages. It just isn't reasonable to suppose that you'd be the 1 in 100 situation that you could guarantee that she never drives your vehicle. And since insurance is based upon the masses, changing that policy for the one off situation just wouldn't make sense. They would have to raise everyone else's rates to cover your risk. It would be nice if there was a viable way to charge appropriate fees for auto insurance for adults living together.~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #68 January 29, 2008 This is very sad. There were atleast 100 times when I could have/would have/should have been those kids. At 18 I didnt have an $80K 500hp Sports car.. I had $5K 400hp Muscle Car. The big difference?? I am quite positive the 80K car had better Suspension, Handling, Braking and Safety features. I will point out that while there no way to justify or rationalize the kids behavior.. At least they were not doing it on a Public Road or Street Racing. I caught alot of grief back when my daughter was racing. Giving a 12 year old girl a Top Alcohol Junior Dragster that was considerably quicker than your average 5.0 Mustang (0 to 85 mph in 8.9 seconds (1/8 mile)) some thought was crazy but she had been racing for 4 years by that time and worked her way up to that car. Now that she just turned 16 and wants to get back into racing, I am considering giving her my 66 Belvedere that is every bit of 500 HP on the bottle. But she will have to earn that car too. The sad reality is that this kind of thing happens way too often no matter what the kids are driving. The fact that it was an Expensive car and the location of where it happened is what draw attention to this incident. The exact same accident could have happened in a Honda Civic. It is a tragedy. Young Kids doing stupid things. Most of us were lucky enough to live through similar stunts at their age. These kids were not so fortunate. The car did not kill them, their actions did. The exact same actions that the majority of 18 year old boys with have always done with their cars. Open her up and see what she will do. Powerslide ANY car off a 200 foot embankment and things will not turn out good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #69 January 29, 2008 Thanks for posting something in perspective!!!! reading a bunch of those holier than thou posts prior was a little sickening.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillbo 11 #70 January 29, 2008 I will not discuss doing 60mph wheelies on my Z1 900 Kawi when I was 17..... wearing only a t-shirt, shorts and flip flops.... nope. never made a bad decision in my life as a youngster..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,406 #71 January 29, 2008 Quoteryoder, ACMESkydiver You both say was.... are you two NO longer underwriters? If not, was it the redtape that drove you out b/c of your "concious"My agent tells me basically the same thing... I have a 27yo daughter that just moved back in after Her divorce, and He suggested that She be part on my policy to get the "multiple car discount for my premium.... I say bullshit... Why should I care about that when IF She gets a DUI or a ticket for an accident(s), then it is MY RATE that goes uP not Hers!!!??? HELLO!!! Can either of you elaborate a weebit about this? I got out because they didn't tell me until AFTER I took the job that they didn't give a damn about anything except pushing life insurance. We sold all kinds of property & casualty and life & health, but in fact all the other types of insurance were just bait to find people to give the hard sell on life insurance. They flat out wanted me to lie and misrepresent a product just to sell it, even to people who had no need for it."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #72 January 29, 2008 Quote Sorry about the clicky thang Not sure why you have to be signed in ? The gist of the link is that the driver was posting questions on an M5 board and a few people started trying to explain the risk of an unskilled driver having so much power .. Here is a quote that got the discussion started: "I'm not saying I care what you own, but its just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of IMO. Then again you could be making all of this up." The kids reply was : "I completley understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible..that is definetly understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others..and I hope you are not under the impression that I am the one to brag, I have never been that way and never will. Plus I will have pictures up asap with me in the pictures. I have no reason to lie buddy." then he was dead. WOW! that's nuts.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #73 January 29, 2008 I checked back in the link and I was able to get in after a few attempts. That's eerie. They were telling the kid he's in a dangerous spot, then he went and proved them right. Didnt they say (the news) that alcohol was involved?My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #74 January 30, 2008 Anyone else see the connection to DZ.com? We too have had low timers insist that their actions were 'safe' and that they would be 'fine' despite the warnings of people who knew far better. Our low timers have also ended up dead. What's erie about this situation is the time line. That kid was posting all the stuff one day, his final post indicating that he would be posting pics the next day. Before sunrise, he was dead. Very similar to what we get here, but just compressed into a 12 or 15 hour time period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #75 January 30, 2008 QuoteThanks for posting something in perspective!!!! reading a bunch of those holier than thou posts prior was a little sickening.... I thought that was what I was trying to say, but apparantly it didn't some out right... thanks Thanatos.... Any car.... rich doesn't matter... -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
