ngawang01 0 #1 November 18, 2005 Step through or clips on, which one is a better harness? "Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I". pf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #2 November 18, 2005 QuoteStep through or clips on, which one is a better harness? I have B12 snaps on mine and I like it - of course I'm old and fat and probably not as flexible as some I just smile as I watch people, even the young flexible ones, struggle into their rigs. "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ngawang01 0 #3 November 18, 2005 Is there any safety issues with the snaps on? "Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I". pf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #4 November 18, 2005 I believe this is the historical post you want to answer (and ask) all these questions for you: [URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1503119[/url] -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #5 November 18, 2005 Also read here. If I had B-12 I would have not broken my hand! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1584934;search_string=metacarpal;#1584934Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #6 November 18, 2005 QuoteIs there any safety issues with the snaps on? If you don't do them up you will fall out. I'm not aware of any other issues. I'm not a rigger but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #7 November 18, 2005 QuoteStep through or clips on, which one is a better harness? I've got both and I prefer the step through. The B-12's are convienent, but I like not having to worry about the snaps with the step-through harness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #8 November 18, 2005 I just had my B-12s replaced. Bought the container used so the previous owner bought it with B-12s (even though it is a relatively new Wings - DOM 2003). For me, it was another potential failure point that I didn't want to deal with. I've caught the springs sticking a couple times during gear checks - yes, it's a quick and easy fix, but it made me a little paranoid. The other thing that made me uncomfortable is people taking leg strap grips on hybrids; small risk, probably, but someone moving their hands around near the B-12s could potentially pop them. Now we'll just have to see if I'm graceful and flexible enough to get in and out of the rig with its new configuration."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #9 November 18, 2005 How much did it cost to get the B-12's replaced with step through leg straps?BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #10 November 18, 2005 QuoteI just had my B-12s replaced. Bought the container used so the previous owner bought it with B-12s (even though it is a relatively new Wings - DOM 2003). For me, it was another potential failure point that I didn't want to deal with. I've caught the springs sticking a couple times during gear checks - yes, it's a quick and easy fix, but it made me a little paranoid. The other thing that made me uncomfortable is people taking leg strap grips on hybrids; small risk, probably, but someone moving their hands around near the B-12s could potentially pop them. Now we'll just have to see if I'm graceful and flexible enough to get in and out of the rig with its new configuration. THere was an incident related to this. The snap came open from a hybrid grip. They are also very important to keep in good maintenence so they dont stick shut or so the spring doesn't fail. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #11 November 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteStep through or clips on, which one is a better harness? I have B12 snaps on mine and I like it - of course I'm old and fat and probably not as flexible as some I just smile as I watch people, even the young flexible ones, struggle into their rigs. Have you ever seen J.C. Colclasure put his rig on? He's a big tall dude and his rig ain't exactly a big one either. He puts the rig on his shoulders first, then steps into the leg straps like it was nothing. phew!"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #12 November 18, 2005 I'm getting a used rig that has B-12s and I will definitely change it because I fear that docks, holds on exit or in mid collision may cause it to open. I'm also afraid that while sitting on the AC it may come open and in an emergency exit I won't have time to double check it. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #13 November 18, 2005 QuoteI believe this is the historical post you want to answer (and ask) all these questions for you: [URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1503119[/url] The comments in that linked thread are so like my experience, too. Got back into jumping after a long layoff, and all the b-12's were gone? I loved those, where'd they go? OK, I admit doing a hybrid may pose some risk, but other than that, I miss them. I particularly hate the standard thread-thru chest straps they have nowadays....but I've ranted about that before & I don't want to hijack this thread... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 November 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteI believe this is the historical post you want to answer (and ask) all these questions for you: [URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1503119[/url] The comments in that linked thread are so like my experience, too. Got back into jumping after a long layoff, and all the b-12's were gone? I loved those, where'd they go? OK, I admit doing a hybrid may pose some risk, but other than that, I miss them. I particularly hate the standard thread-thru chest straps they have nowadays....but I've ranted about that before & I don't want to hijack this thread... ______________________________________ I had an old Vector, with 'Quick Eject Snaps'. They made me nervous so, I switched them to thread-through hardware! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #15 November 19, 2005 B-12's and Quick Ejectors were designed for use on the leg straps. Friction adapters, hardware used in step troughs, were designed for use in adjusting back diagonals and other areas of the harness. They were all designed to be used on Type 13 webbing. They started showing up on leg straps of sport gear for the same reason so many other “fad” items like soft housings and soft ripcords. They make production easier and they cost less. If you notice when B-12’s fell out of favor there was not a reduction in the cost of a rig, they started charging more for what was standard before. $6.00 for adapter, $16.75 for B-12. I have been jumping them for almost 30 years, 20 years doing testing, and have yet to have a problem. But then again they are not cool. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #16 November 19, 2005 Ian, I am almost as old as you and almost as fat, but I much prefer step-ins. I also insisted that all our new tandem student harnesses have step-ins. B-12 snaps slow me down when I dress students and I always worry about students dis-connecting them in the plane. That scenario may have only happened once (fortunately, the So-Cal TI caught that error on a pre-exit gear check), but I am too lazy to deal with it on a regular basis. Even using older tandem harnesses - with B-12 snaps - I still leave the leg straps attached. I jut lay the leg straps on the floor and tell students: "Please put your right foot through, etc." Then I slide the harness over their shoulders and fasten the chest strap. I am so lazy that I also use that technique when dressing S/L, IAD and PFF students. There is also a problem with V-rings turning and distorting the sheet metal gates on B-12 snaps. That is why Strong Enterprises switched to deep V-rings and we also include "snapping" the gate on every pre-flight check, but - again - that is a problem that can be avoided by avoiding B-12 snaps. In conclusion, I am so old and so fat that I don't even bother opening B-12 snaps on tandem instructor harnesses, preferring to set large, heavy, bulky tandem rigs on a table and step into the leg straps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #17 November 19, 2005 My rig wasn't available with snaps if I wanted hip rings, so that made the choice for me. However, having jumped with both, I prefer stepthrough AS LONG AS THE RIG FITS RIGHT. I can put on my Infinity pretty quickly, but the rental Dolphins before I got that were a pain.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #18 November 19, 2005 Just put it on your shoulders first, then let it down to your elbows. The legstraps are then so low that it is not hard. I sometimes see people trying to get into their harness in the most difficult ways. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #19 November 20, 2005 QuoteJust put it on your shoulders first, then let it down to your elbows. The legstraps are then so low that it is not hard. I sometimes see people trying to get into their harness in the most difficult ways. Ooh, thanks for the tip. With my new step-throughs I'm still trying to figure out the most graceful way (and I'm not one of those super-bendy people). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #20 November 20, 2005 I sometimes see people trying to get into their harness in the most difficult ways. *** You're not old & fat & 6'4"! ANY way without B-12's is difficult! And I jump near water often...I like being able to get back OUT fast & easy. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #21 November 21, 2005 You could hardly jump wingsuit with B-12. Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petetheladd 0 #22 November 21, 2005 QuoteYou could hardly jump wingsuit with B-12. Well, I have B-12s and love them. Its never been a problem using them with a wingsuit - more convenient when it comes to taking the suit/rig off PtL No, Not without incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #23 November 21, 2005 QuoteYou could hardly jump wingsuit with B-12. Why not? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #24 November 22, 2005 I just jumped my rig with B-12 this weekend. I found them to be much easier to put on but somewhat uncomfortable. I called RWS and it would cost $120 dollars to exchange and about 1-2 weeks to get it done (not the actual work for them to get it done and back) I also asked about getting hip rings instead, which apparently is an easier job than switching the snaps because it requires a whole new harness and that costs $400. Therefore, I'll be sticking with the B12s for a little while and maybe holding out to get hip rings. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #25 November 22, 2005 For what you'll gain with lower rings, I probably wouldn't bother doing it to this rig. Wait till the next one. As far as it being easier to replace the harness: Except for the fact you're allowed to destroy the old harness removing it, it's not easier, just more expensive. The readers digest condensed version of what the job entails is as follows. Take an Xacto knife to the leg pad zig zag stitches. Remove and discard the old leg pads. Unstitch the lower junction. Remove the top leg strap. Remove the V Quick fit bar from the long portion. Sew a new piece of type 12 (chafing strap)and a new piece of type 8 around the new regular thread through (MS 22040) Insert the piece into the harness where the old piece was, and stitch it back in place. Add the new leg pads and stitch them down... re-thread the leg straps ... box it up and ship it back. 120 bucks seems pretty fair since you get new leg pads. 400 bucks for a new harness is ok but still, you may want to just wait until you replace the rig altogether. Good luckMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites