front riser bucking on a cobalt 135

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Atair's website has this to say about wingload and canopy size.

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What's the recommended wing loading on a Cobalt?

The Cobalt canopy is an extremely efficient wing. It has the highest measured glide ratio of any skydiving canopy. The extra lift makes for a canopy that flies 'bigger'. To get equal forward speed when comparing to many other canopies you need to load the Cobalt heavier, i.e. 1#/’ on a Sabre should be compared to 1.2#/’ on a cobalt.

1.2-1.4 beginners
1.4-1.6 intermediate
1.6-1.8 high
1.8-2.2 pro
2.2-2.8 extreme
max tested landed wingload 3.6#

NOTE: due to the efficiency of the Cobalt wing, most experienced jumpers will jump a Cobalt 1-2 sizes smaller than competing canopies.

Is this canopy safe for all pilots, or should it just be left to more experienced? I know that there is two different kinds of cobalts, the regular one and the cross braced one.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I know that there is two different kinds of cobalts, the regular one and the cross braced one.

There are 3 Atair canopies. The Cobalt, the H-Mod Cobalt, and the Oynx, a Cross braced canopy.

Derek

[nicknitro71 0]

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1.2-1.4 beginners

Memento Audere Semper

903

[davelepka 4]

If you're asking because you might want a Cobalt, don't. My experience with the Cobalt sucked, as have others. Some will say they love th eCobalt, but consider you is giving that advice, and what experiecne they have in general.

When it comes to canopies, you cannot go wrong with PD. I've jumped alot of stuff, but only owned PD canopies, main and reserve.

In all fairness, Icarus, Percision and Aerodyne seem to have some good things going, as well.

Any of those four: Good choice.

Atair / Cobalt : Not so good.

[justinb138 0]

Gotta love unbiased advice...

[ntacfreefly 0]

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Any of those four: Good choice.

Seems unbiased to me.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[justinb138 0]

I've met people that love Cobalts. Telling someone that everything from a particular manufacturer sucks just because you don't like them isn't right.

Edit: That being said, the whole 1.2-1.4 beginner thing w/cobalts is nuts.

[LawnDart21 0]

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My experience with the Cobalt sucked, as have others.

(Disclaimer, my wife and I both jump Cobalts)

I had a convo with a few people on my DZ that were looking for thier first swoop canopy, ie, they were thinking Xfires, Stilettos, etc. They asked me what I thought of my Cobalts and I told them I loved them. Then came the standard "Yeah, but I've heard they open like shit" comment and "I heard they suck". So my response was simply "Have you ever jumped one?" All answered "No". So I let them all jump mine, and they loved them.

I agree too though, that there is no arguing the fact that some people that have jumped Cobalts simply dont like them. I have another friend who jumped a Cobalt and said it was the worse canopy she had ever flown. She jumped (at the time) a Saphire. Now I have about 50+ jumps on a Saphire, and would rather fly a student canopy than a Saphire. I absolutely hated every jump under one. I feel the way about the Saphire that she does about the Cobalt. Point is differnet people perceive canopies differently. How does a canopy treat one person great and make another feel like they're flying with the parking brake on?

So, in conclusion, I'm sure you experience with Cobalts sucked, as have others, but that can be said for most canopies out there. There are people that love/hate all kinds of canopies for all kinds of reasons. Cobalts just tend to get a little extra crispy in the flame department sometimes.......lol.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[davelepka 4]

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Telling someone that everything from a particular manufacturer sucks just because you don't like them isn't right.

If you mean that I personally have something against Atair, that would be wrong. My feelings are for the Cobalt, and they are based on personal experience with the canopy.

In the spirit of this discussion, my responding to a guy with 80-some jumps advising against the Cobalt seems pretty reasonable. It's not the best choice at that experience level by far.

Even beyond that, I feel there are much better canopies to choose if you're looking for a medium to high performance canopy at the WL's Atair reccomends.

Whats not right about giving an honest answer to a question? I have demoed the Cobalt, and other canopies in it's class, they all got a fair shot. I wouldn't order a demo and actually jump a canopy if I didn't think the design had some promise.

[dbattman 0]

If you can pick them up cheap the Cobalt's not a bad canopy. I wouldn't pay full price for one, though. I picked up my 150 with about 200-250 jumps for $700. I put about 250 on it and just had it relined ready to pass on to the next new owner. It's not a bad canopy but it's far from perfect and I've been satisfied but not pleased with it. Now, if you're considering a Cobalt a few hundred jumps from now and you can find an Alpha (predecesor to the Cobalt) that's a pretty good canopy.

As far as the wingloading comparison I have no idea. I've heard that from more than one manufacturer. "Our canopies fly big so you should get a smaller one" Is it true? I don't know- probably depends on how aggressive you fly.

I'm not suggesting at all that you should buy one, just my experience. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with a Pilot. That's a great all around canopy.

[TaylorC 0]

maybe that Atair guy who posts on these boards can comment on this

[VectorBoy 0]

The general population attitude on DZ.com is not favorable to Attair. A rep will never win a discussion here. There are other reps that have taken the occasional beating regardless of their particular skydiving related product but Attair has taken a lot of bad press.....here. Sometimes the negativity is warranted, but not as frequently as it seems to be dished out.

There are a great many "armchair aerodynamists" and "beerlight swoop experts" here. And tons of lemmings following them along blindly. If you like some piece of gear thats great! If you don't like some of it, thats great too because there really is a lot of other good gear out there that you can go to instead of being limited to what you don't like. Too many choices and most of it good to fantastic and getting better every few years.

Even though I jump Attair products I'm not just defending Attair as much as calling out all the so-called experts that have attacked, in some way or another, a container or canopy or wingsuit designer without the back ground to do so.

In most cases you will find the majority of these detractors have never even tested the product in question themselves first hand. If they have and they don't like it ( and I can respect that) thats fine. But what about the blind army of mindless lemmings standing behind them that haven't themselves tested the product? I run into so many lemmings I don't know who actually has tested what and which ones are just repeating something they've heard from some other lemming.

We stand to push away the reps and designners from these companies so that they will not be available on DZ.com for advice or discussion . Not to worry as the "experts" I speak of above will fill that void with advice about what brand is best for me.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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as calling out all the so-called experts that have attacked, in some way or another,

I was an Instructor, Cobaltdan wasn't/isn't. To say that Cobalts are used for and make good student canopies (the largest Cobalt is a 170) is irresponsible and reckless. He has been caught in B.S. many times. Where are the Crossfire wind tunnel tests, top skin attachments determine # of cells, you should drop 2 sizes to jump a Cobalt, 1.2-1.4 for beginners, etc. That is why they get hammered, they ask for it.

As I have posted before, I used to jump an Alpha 94 (early Cobalt) and really liked it. I don't have a problem with the canopy, just the companies claims and marketing.

Derek

[VectorBoy 0]

If I had five bucks for everytime someone approached me on the DZ with their "unsolicited" negative opinion about an Attair product I could buy a custom colored Onyx. In most of these events they themselves have never tried the canopy.

I don't have A single problem with your personal grief with Dan P. I see how your ideals clash with most of the things he says, Thats fine. You admit to jumping and even liking the Alpha/cobalt as a canopy. The larger part of your beef is straight up against their marketing and maybe a perceived lack of ethics. I respect all this swoopy.

My post also isn't about the people that have actually tried the gear and got slammed by the mystical 2-stage opening. Yes I know there are those out there.

I'm not picking on you in my post above, the one you quoted and responded too. I'm picking on the ones that are quick to spout off their unsupported opinions ( or regurgitating opinions ) about gear ( not just Attairs but all kinds of gear ) they have never, ever tried themselves. I'm also speaking up against the dot com feeding frenzy that may just push many manufacturers on here to just regard this place as a bunch of kooks.

[marks 0]

ive never jumped one, as a matter of fact, somone should help me in getting a couple demo's.

cobalt, say in the 90's range.
and the onyx in the 80's range.

i wont knock it till i try it.
hell, might even like it.

[VectorBoy 0]

i wont knock it till i try it.
hell, might even like it.